Department of Government Efficiency - DOGE

[ButchPlz]

And again, you are being fed information from bureaucrats protecting their turf. Are there mistakes being made, absolutely. You are being reactionary. Things will work there way out.

The literal memo that came out (and that I posted) blocking how purchase cards are used (cutting from 15k users to 500 users for the enterprise) is "bureaucrats protecting their turf"?

The raw data I handle on how the VA spends money on medical supplies (PS: 60% on p-cards across the enterprise) is an elaborate scheme put together by a bureaucrat to throw me off?

The explicit contracts I look at and processes I read into to turn contracts into performance-based work aligned with industry best practices are information from bureaucrats?

The VA admin tweeting about "notetaking" contracts and then retracting the action in less than 24 hours was just some conspiracy that was drawn up?

Are you actually this stupid, or are you just blindly assuming I am?

 

[InVOLuntary]

The literal memo that came out blocking how purchase cards are used (cutting from 15k users to 500 users for the enterprise) is "bureaucrats protecting their turf"?

The raw data I handle on how the VA spends money on medical supplies (PS: 60% on p-cards across the enterprise) is an elaborate scheme put together by a bureaucrat to throw me off?

The explicit contracts I look at and processes I read into to turn contracts into performance-based work aligned with industry best practices are information from bureaucrats?

The VA admin tweeting about "notetaking" contracts and then retracting the action in less than 24 hours was just some conspiracy that was drawn up?

Are you actually this stupid, or are you just blindly assuming I am?

You’re actually stupid enough to believe that it won't get worked out. Yes, bureaucrats are pumping the hysteria and you are falling for it. Things will get paid for. If the pay (credit) cards are a source of waste/fraud and abuse, they need to be curtailed. I think you said that they can be abused, at least I think you did.

And I typically don't refer to people as stupid but since you did I replied in kind.

My advice is to let it play out. Change is hard. It will work out. Like I said, mistakes will be made but it will be better in the long run.

 

[ButchPlz]

Since I'm apparently an easily manipulated buffoon, let's play a little game, @InVOLuntary.

You run a 2500+ facility medical system that spans the US and outlying US territories.
Your facilities are mandated by law to operate on a just-in-time basis, meaning they need quick response for a variety of often unseen supply needs (since, you know, it's not an exact science to predict who is going to come into your hospital for what).
Your primary source of acquiring supplies is system X.
One day, you decide system X is too expensive.

Do you:
A) shut off system X with less than a week's notice, hoping that your other source can manage a sudden dump of a billion dollars in demand?
-OR-
B) run diagnostics on why system X is being used and put the guardrails in place to move away from it?

The Trump administration elected option B until Elon Musk's crew came in. What do you think happens when you put that much strain on a supply chain overnight? Look at the span of 2020-2021 for examples.

 

[FLVOL_79]

@InVOLuntary - I want to slash and slash like crazy. We have to fundamentally change spending in this country. That means some sacred cows will have to get slaughtered....

You cut the budgets and you'll end up cutting the waste

Congress is responsible for all of that.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Since I'm apparently an easily manipulated buffoon, let's play a little game, @InVOLuntary.

You run a 2500+ facility medical system that spans the US and outlying US territories.
Your facilities are mandated by law to operate on a just-in-time basis, meaning they need quick response for a variety of often unseen supply needs (since, you know, it's not an exact science to predict who is going to come into your hospital for what).
Your primary source of acquiring supplies is system X.
One day, you decide system X is too expensive.

Do you:
A) shut off system X with less than a week's notice, hoping that your other source can manage a sudden dump of a billion dollars in demand?
-OR-
B) run diagnostics on why system X is being used and put the guardrails in place to move away from it?

The Trump administration elected option B until Elon Musk's crew came in. What do you think happens when you put that much strain on a supply chain overnight? Look at the span of 2020-2021 for examples.

I never said you are a buffoon. I said you are being reactionary. Give it time. I've said there will be mistakes made. It's beyond time to try a surgical fix.

 

[ButchPlz]

You’re actually stupid enough to believe that it won't get worked out. Yes, bureaucrats are pumping the hysteria and you are falling for it. Things will get paid for. If the pay (credit) cards are a source of waste/fraud and abuse, they need to be curtailed. I think you said that they can be abused, at least I think you did.

And I typically don't refer to people as stupid but since you did I replied in kind.

My advice is to let it play out. Change is hard. It will work out. Like I said, mistakes will be made but it will be better in the long run.

Am I? Because to my knowledge, between the two of us here there's only one of us that has hands-on experience in the industry both on the private and public sides.

I've spelled it out for you. The option you are electing- just shut it all off- will inevitably leave facilities without supplies. Is it acceptable for one Vet to have a critical surgery delayed, or to have to be shifted from a VA emergency department to another emergency department when time is vital? What about two? Three? What makes you the arbiter of that decision?

Oh, you want to kill the VHA and move these users to private hospitals? That's fine- but you've also just killed the EHRM contract that backs the system to make that move.

That, my friend, is why you're stupid. Stupid people can only think along one line. In your case, it's "hurr durr nook it all it woll be fixec". Intelligent people think across the board. It'll all work out, we've just got to sacrifice people we made a literal contract with to provide support along the way. **** em, though, right?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Congress is responsible for all of that.

Fair but this POTUS wields a ton of power to get his way. There are too many R Senators on the payroll of the MIC though.....

 

[ButchPlz]

I never said you are a buffoon. I said you are being reactionary. Give it time. I've said there will be mistakes made. It's beyond time to try a surgical fix.

Since you're the type that keeps demanding @LouderVol answers questions, you give me an actual answer. Describe in detail how you're handling your situation A, since that's what you are electing. We're all waiting with baited breath for your ingenious solution.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Am I? Because to my knowledge, between the two of us here there's only one of us that has hands-on experience in the industry both on the private and public sides.

I've spelled it out for you. The option you are electing- just shut it all off- will inevitably leave facilities without supplies. Is it acceptable for one Vet to have a critical surgery delayed, or to have to be shifted from a VA emergency department to another emergency department when time is vital? What about two? Three? What makes you the arbiter of that decision?

Oh, you want to kill the VHA and move these users to private hospitals? That's fine- but you've also just killed the EHRM contract that backs the system to make that move.

That, my friend, is why you're stupid. Stupid people can only think along one line. In your case, it's "hurr durr nook it all it woll be fixec". Intelligent people think across the board. It'll all work out, we've just got to sacrifice people we made a literal contract with to provide support along the way. **** em, though, right?

Lol, I think this post speaks for itself as to whether you are reactionary. Are you not getting a paycheck? Has the heat been cut off to your building? Are you evicting patients? Things will be fine.

And in this one, I'll refrain from calling you stupid.

 

[MercyPercy]

Congress is responsible for all of that.

Republicans have the house, the senate and the presidency. It's time to put their money where their mouth is. Instead we're digging deeper into debt and increasing defense spending.

 

[ButchPlz]

Lol, I think this post speaks for itself as to whether you are reactionary. Are you not getting a paycheck? Has the heat been cut off to your building? Are you evicting patients? Things will be fine.

Again, it's just a foolish to assert that with no evidence as to assert the world is going to burn down.

I care about the individual. The individual vet is owed a duty by the US. That's part of their "deal". What you're advocating is to screw the one guy because bureaucrats beyond his control made a mess. You're advocating for collateral damage for no reason.

I've already told you that much of what got cut was moving to modernize this stuff in the VA. It's going to cost more in the long run to deal with the brain drain than it's going to save now. Will it work out? Eventually. I'm just not particularly evil enough to sacrifice people along the way when there's no reason to.

We're not going to get far. You think it's OK to expand military spending and not apply the same types of cuts with this speed and precision- a surgical approach is fine there, despite me giving examples in this thread of a 20+ year long weapons system contract that I worked on that's put zero units in the field. But the VA? Hack it apart. It's ignorance, and it's stupidity, and it's hypocrisy. Not shocking.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

 

[CobbVol]

You dont compare a spending budget to value of the economy. Spending budgets should be in line with inflation...

The MIC has you brainwashed

NVDA or Apple doesnt make their budgets based on their market cap. That's essentially what you are recommending here....

LOL
Not brainwashed or recommending anything.

Our allies need to increase their defense spending as this administration has vocally proclaimed. The MIC-U.S. defense spending also needs to be thoroughly reviewed to cut out waste for sure, but not slashed to the bone given the historical unfair treatment of US-trade across the globe and the rise of China and their belt road concept. We don't live in a libertarian utopia where all agree with a non-aggression principle.

Edit: I guess I ended up recommending after reading my last paragraph.

 

[NashVol11]

So do you think it's possible for someone up the chain manipulating things to make this look bad for the current administration?

Yes, Elon Musk.

Lol, perfect

 

[C-south]

They're eliminating departments that they don't understand or even know what they do. Some are vital and either need to remain or be looked into to see how to adequately replace. It's what you get when you have people who have never held a job outside dev staring at numbers on a screen

So you know more than they do?

 

[C-south]

They should go after congressional allowances and perks next.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Again, it's just a foolish to assert that with no evidence as to assert the world is going to burn down.

I care about the individual. The individual vet is owed a duty by the US. That's part of their "deal". What you're advocating is to screw the one guy because bureaucrats beyond his control made a mess. You're advocating for collateral damage for no reason.

I've already told you that much of what got cut was moving to modernize this stuff in the VA. It's going to cost more in the long run to deal with the brain drain than it's going to save now. Will it work out? Eventually. I'm just not particularly evil enough to sacrifice people along the way when there's no reason to.

We're not going to get far. You think it's OK to expand military spending and not apply the same types of cuts with this speed and precision- a surgical approach is fine there, despite me giving examples in this thread of a 20+ year long weapons system contract that I worked on that's put zero units in the field. But the VA? Hack it apart. It's ignorance, and it's stupidity, and it's hypocrisy. Not shocking.

Lol, I asked you had any specific examples of bills not being paid.

I'm 100% with you on veterans. They deserve much better than they are getting. Would you not agree that more money would get to the individuals if waste, fraud and abuse were minimized?

 

[InVOLuntary]

Lol, perfect

You're still but hurt that your tranny shows got the axe.

 

[ButchPlz]

Lol, I asked you had any specific examples of bills not being paid.

I'm 100% with you on veterans. They deserve much better than they are getting. Would you not agree that more money would get to the individuals if waste, fraud and abuse were minimized?

What does the bolded have to do with anything I've said?

Have you read any of my posts? You can go look at the article I linked where it pointed out how some of the tech contracts and procurement options that have been cut are specifically for auditing and waste identification. I myself have helped audit purchase cards and move procurement to less expensive vehicles of procurement, also adding transparency to how stuff is bought. (EDIT: my very little team got about 5% of GPC spend in the enterprise moved onto traceable contracts; we also got about $50M of obligated funds either de-obligated/returned to the federal coffers or actually paid to vendors over the last three years). I gave everyone another example of how one of the IT contracts that got cut is to add visibility within hospitals, because the VA has none, meaning a VA employee can order something and take it home once it hits the hospital. All of these are designed to do what you're saying. Now they're gone.

Here's another one, if I have been so duped by bureaucrats, was the VA admin also duped when he walked back his own comments? Was he duped by bureaucrats or Elon Musk?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

LOL
Not brainwashed or recommending anything.

Our allies need to increase their defense spending as this administration has vocally proclaimed. The MIC-U.S. defense spending also needs to be thoroughly reviewed to cut out waste for sure, but not slashed to the bone given the historical unfair treatment of US-trade across the globe and the rise of China and their belt road concept. We don't live in a libertarian utopia where all agree with a non-aggression principle.

Edit: I guess I ended up recommending after reading my last paragraph.

The funny thing was all of the MIC bought and paid for Senators used % of GDP for years. When Biden came in and inflation > GDP growth %, they switched to using inflation as their justification to increase the budget...

 

[whodeycin85]

This will probably get called a dumb question, but what would happen if the US decided not to pay out internal debt, it all out debt? How would it effect the general population?

 

[ButchPlz]

The funny thing was all of the MIC bought and paid for Senators used % of GDP for years. When Biden came in and inflation > GDP growth %, they switched to using inflation as their justification to increase the budget...

I don't really get it considering most of these military contracts span years and years.

Like I pointed out before, I wonder why the same speed and insanity of cuts aren't being applied to military contracts...? There's a lot of easy fruit out there.

 

[InVOLuntary]

What does the bolded have to do with anything I've said?

Have you read any of my posts? You can go look at the article I linked where it pointed out how some of the tech contracts and procurement options that have been cut are specifically for auditing and waste identification. I myself have helped audit purchase cards and move procurement to less expensive vehicles of procurement, also adding transparency to how stuff is bought. (EDIT: my very little team got about 5% of GPC spend in the enterprise moved onto traceable contracts; we also got about $50M of obligated funds either de-obligated/returned to the federal coffers or actually paid to vendors over the last three years). I gave everyone another example of how one of the IT contracts that got cut is to add visibility within hospitals, because the VA has none, meaning a VA employee can order something and take it home once it hits the hospital. All of these are designed to do what you're saying. Now they're gone.

Here's another one, if I have been so duped by bureaucrats, was the VA admin also duped when he walked back his own comments? Was he duped by bureaucrats or Elon Musk?

So at this point it's really not having an effect on patient care?

 

[ButchPlz]

So at this point it's really not having an effect on patient care?

At this point, no. March 1st, the procurement methods are cut. DOGE has instructed the GSA to allow limited or no exceptions.

Are you suggesting I should not take their word seriously when they say they are going to cut the method used to buy 60% of medical supplies across the country? If that's the case, what makes DOGE better than any of the other idiotic and noisy bureaucratic agencies that exist?

Are you going to address the senile "point" you lead with about bills being paid?

PS: I'm also waiting for your explanation in regards to cutting the method and how you are going to identify where else to get those supplies. You loved to put @LouderVol under the wringer about church and state, but when it comes to yourself you're a coward.

 

[DC_Vol]

I don't really get it considering most of these military contracts span years and years.

Like I pointed out before, I wonder why the same speed and insanity of cuts aren't being applied to military contracts...? There's a lot of easy fruit out there.

No sacred cows. They need to go after everything.

I’m ok with breaking some eggs along the way. Why? Because our entire system is broken today and it can’t be fixed until spending is fixed.

I can agree that the DOGE bro approach needs to he changed. ML models are good for many things but usually before putting them in production they are rigorously tested and validated. Even then, a human is normally watching over it.