Derek Chauvin trial

[Tastylicks]

I just quoted the actual statue on 2nd degree murder from the state of Minnesota which is on par with basically every other state.

2nd degree=intentional

Manslaughter=unintentional

There may be some states where that rule doesn’t hold true. In this example 2nd degree=intentional

"We the jury in count 1, unintentional 2nd degree murder while committing a felony, find the defendant: guilty."

watch

--

when 'white grievance day' is over we can discuss. I'll let you vent.

 

[RockyTop85]

Yeah, I saw that. Are you claiming he was violating a protection order? Or that he was just attempting to kill another person in general?

Which one do you believe applies?

Part 1
A. causes the death of a human being,
B. without intent to effect the death of any person,
C. while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense
other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

 

[Vol8188]

Part 1
A. causes the death of a human being,
B. without intent to effect the death of any person,
C. while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense
other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

Right. And he was not committing and/or attempting to commit a felony. Once again, 2nd degree does not apply here

 

[NurseGoodVol]

only when we haven't had enough coffee

Me on work nights.

 

[RockyTop85]

Right. And he was not committing and/or attempting to commit a felony. Once again, 2nd degree does not apply here

The jury disagreed.

He was convicted on the theory that his contact with Floyd became an assault once the use of force became unreasonable.

 

[n_huffhines]

Are you using "police state" very, very liberally?
Edit: maybe loosely would be a better word^^^

It's a matter of opinion. I think it's accurate. We do armed raids on people dealing in raw milk. To me, that's a police state.

 

[VolnJC]

 

[AM64]

It's the second degree conviction that makes me believe you're wrong, and that the jury was afraid of finding him not guilty. Guilty of third degree and guilty of manslaughter, those make sense. I'm not convinced this satisfies the legal definition of second degree murder. But I do agree Chauvin is guilty of a crime.

I still find it hard to believe you can charge someone with multiple degrees of murder. It's like being able to apply the realistic level and then upcharge and hope that sticks ... having your cake and eating it, too. It seems like one charge of manslaughter would have been proper, and the other stuff was gratuitous with hope that it would work. This kind of stuff seems like it would fall under double jeopardy - in a parallel rather than a serial sense - and should be outlawed. The precedence it sets is mind numbing. I don't know why they didn't just throw in 1st degree murder; and go with the theory that Chauvin woke up with the intent to go out and kill somebody that day, strapped on his weapons to do so, and waited for a Floyd to happen.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Pelosi's comment is now the gold standard of being tone deaf.

Kind of wonder how many more blacks she wants to "sacrifice their lives" for " justice". Next tick tock trend?

 

[RikidyBones]

View attachment 363588

Who is that?

Nvm. Figured it out.

 

[Ttucke11]

View attachment 363588

Wow, I thought this had to be a fake. What a loser.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

How many police yearly mistakenly shoot someone? You’re more likely to get a grand piano dropped on your head

Wylie coyote disagrees.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

A big problem in what way? I'll grant that it is a problem, but how are you coming to the conclusion that it is a "big" problem? What parameters are you using?

He hates cops

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

It's my judgment that we live in a police state with an incredibly flawed criminal justice system that's not in the best interest of civilians or good cops. A million things led to George Floyd's death. Some of them are necessary components of the system, some of them are on him, but most of all, concerned citizens need to focus on the parts of government that are broken that led to this.

LOL police state

 

[Rickyvol77]

You could make the same comment about the risk to police during a traffic stop, but you never do.

Actually law enforcement is the number 1 profession in the US where assaults on them occur per day.

Healthcare workers are #2

 

[RockyTop85]

Actually law enforcement is the number 1 profession in the US where assaults on them occur per day.

Healthcare workers are #2

The risk of a police officer being unlawfully killed during a traffic stop is something like 1 in 6.5 million yet fear is routinely used by police to justify use of force up to and including deadly force.

 

[n_huffhines]

I didn't know where else to post this

 

[hog88]

I didn't know where else to post this

Good, about time.

 

[PNW Huskie]

This is a much better explanation for why he shouldn’t be guilty of 2nd than most of the others I’ve seen and I assume it will come up on appeal, since there was an objection.

The Minnesota Supreme Court analyzed the Minnesota law and says that’s how the intent works vis-a-vis assault. The intent requirement applies to the prohibited action, not the result. That’s all I’m going off of.

Once his intended use of force becomes unreasonable, I’d think the jury was justified in finding that an assault was intended under that general intent scheme. When that assault results in death, it supports second degree murder. So the evidence would seem to be sufficient.

Jury instruction issues are good appellate issues. Without knowing more of the State’s law, I can’t speculate as to how that would turn out on appeal.

Cc: @hUTch2002

Nice reply and even if we disagree on some points it’s reasonable and healthy discourse. Cheers mate...

 

[Y9 Vol]

The risk of a police officer being unlawfully killed during a traffic stop is something like 1 in 6.5 million yet fear is routinely used by police to justify use of force up to and including deadly force.

Now do the odds of a person getting shot by a cop if they cooperate.

 

[McDad]

I didn't know where else to post this

Finally something passed I agree with.

 

[hUTch2002]

This is a much better explanation for why he shouldn’t be guilty of 2nd than most of the others I’ve seen and I assume it will come up on appeal, since there was an objection.

The Minnesota Supreme Court analyzed the Minnesota law and says that’s how the intent works vis-a-vis assault. The intent requirement applies to the prohibited action, not the result. That’s all I’m going off of.

Once his intended use of force becomes unreasonable, I’d think the jury was justified in finding that an assault was intended under that general intent scheme. When that assault results in death, it supports second degree murder. So the evidence would seem to be sufficient.

Jury instruction issues are good appellate issues. Without knowing more of the State’s law, I can’t speculate as to how that would turn out on appeal.

Cc: @hUTch2002

Right. It comes back to the intent to harm and I don’t see how they proved beyond reasonable doubt that Chauvin intended to harm Floyd. I didn’t see every second of the trial and the jury clearly saw it otherwise so it is what it is. I’ll be curious to see if that one gets dropped on appeal. If you go by the letter of the law I think there’s some chance that even 3rd degree murder could be dropped on appeal. Manslaughter will stick no matter what.

 

[hUTch2002]

Chauvin was screwed when his fellow officers and boss came out and said he didn't follow procedure, and when the doctor said the drugs didn't cause Floyd's death.

Except the original autopsy ME said drugs did contribute. Cool story though.

 

[hUTch2002]

No, I wasn't referring to his opinion on the outcome.

Its the fact that he continually bases his opinion on "intent" when Chauvin's charges had nothing to do with intent and as such the prosecution made no attempt to claim he did.

The charge was 2nd degree "unintentional murder"

Which still requires intended harm.

 

[Orangeburst]

Finally something passed I agree with.

Just passed some gas myself.