Yeah, one of the reasons I first touted Butch Jones as a candidate for this job (yes, that's right VN. I have it out for Butch Jones so much that I actually started a thread about hiring him way before Dooley was even fired) was that he was able to get Central Michigan coached up to beat a rival (N. Illinois) who Kelly could never seem to beat, despite all his success there. It seems like good coaches really make their mark in rivalry games and break patterns where team x always plays down to team y. And boy do we have that sort of thing going with UF (and have for most of my adult life). But given how we played against them this year (not to mention how we played against other traditional rivals), I'm thinking those CMU v. N. Illinois games aren't as relevant anymore.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Did Butch Jones do a good job coaching this season?
- Thread starter oregonvol
- Start date
Yeah, one of the reasons I first touted Butch Jones as a candidate for this job (yes, that's right VN. I have it out for Butch Jones so much that I actually started a thread about hiring him way before Dooley was even fired) was that he was able to get Central Michigan coached up to beat a rival (N. Illinois) who Kelly could never seem to beat, despite all his success there. It seems like good coaches really make their mark in rivalry games and break patterns where team x always plays down to team y. And boy do we have that sort of thing going with UF (and have for most of my adult life). But given how we played against them this year (not to mention how we played against other traditional rivals), I'm thinking those CMU v. N. Illinois games aren't as relevant anymore.
He is ranked by Rivals as the #2 JUCO player in the country. Many here hailed it as a major coup when Jones got his commitment. You can't just turn around now and downplay it.
As a player, it could be somewhat major. He might have been an immediate starter at a position of need. From the "image" standpoint of Jones building a "great" class... it was a significant hit.
Not downplaying his loss. Just suggesting you overstated how losing 1 out of 34 recruits, albeit a big one, is a "significant" blow to Butch as a recruiter overall. For context, we dropped from #2 to #3 on 247.
Mizzou has a pattern under Pinkel. They recruit a bunch of project players then win with them as upperclassmen then they'll have some down years. The schedule kind of laid down for them this year but IMO they still significantly overachieved. They lose a lot of playmakers and were never a very deep team. Their recruiting really hasn't improved all that much in spite of their success.
It is definitely winnable. UF and USCe are winnable. Ole Miss is more talented than UT as is UGA even with the loss of Murray. UT should pound Vandy... of course they should have beaten them this year.
If the coaching improves then I think 6-6 will show some progress.
Florida is indeed beatable..... just not by the University of Tennessee. Until UT shows that they even get the game into the 4th qtr vs Fla, much less win the game, they start the season 0-1 as long as the Gators are on the schedule.
Honestly looking at the '14 schedule (I know it's being arm chair QB in late December), it appears that the Vandy game will be for a bowl game again.
Utah State - W
Arky State - W
At Oklahoma - L
At Georgia - L
Florida - W
UTC - W
At Ole Miss - L
Alabama - L
At S. Carolina - L
Kentucky - W
Mizzou - L
At Vandy - ?
I do think the Georgia, Ole Miss, Carolina, Mizzou, and Vandy games are all winnable. So, what will change to make Team 118 a 10-2 type team instead of a possible 5-7 again?
If you think we go 1-1 vs Ole Miss and Florida, how in the world do you think the win is vs Florida? They've beaten UT 9 in a row and 19 of the last 25. Don't be lulled to sleep by how they finished this year. They'll be healthy and confident coming into Neyland, knowing, like everybody else, that they're gonna make it 10 in a row.
We have a much better chance, no matter how slim it is, to go to Oxford and Nashville to get a win.
He had a chance to sign 4 guys. He signed 3 and lost arguably the most important commitment (it's especially frustrating too because, once again, we fail to sign big high-rated guys on the defensive line. the story of pretty much every recruiting class here in the past 5 years).
Does it mean that this recruiting class will end up mediocre by SEC standards? Maybe not. Certainly, if that's all we lose, it will still be a very good class. But, from where we stand right now, it's not a good sign for how the next two months will play out before the class is actually signed. All that matters in recruiting is how you close.
But does it rise to the level of stating this is a significant blow to Butch's recruiting credibility? I just don't think so. Not at this point. If he doesn't close this class out by holding on to his current commits, or by replacing whoever washes out with a similarly ranked/talented player then ok. But he's nowhere near that point right now.
Let's revisit this Feb 6. If the class "falls apart" then you and Sjt18 were right.....
But does it rise to the level of stating this is a significant blow to Butch's recruiting credibility? I just don't think so. Not at this point. If he doesn't close this class out by holding on to his current commits, or by replacing whoever washes out with a similarly ranked/talented player then ok. But he's nowhere near that point right now.
Let's revisit this Feb 6. If the class "falls apart" then you and Sjt18 were right.....
Where did I predict that this class would fall apart?
Where did I predict that this class would fall apart?
Didn't mean to suggest you did. How about if this class falls short of where it appears right now? If he loses a couple more highly rated players that he can't replace.
Sjt18 did say that Butch's recruiting cred has already taken a significant hit so that's probably why I framed it that way.
Didn't mean to suggest you did. How about if this class falls short of where it appears right now? If he loses a couple more highly rated players that he can't replace.
Sjt18 did say that Butch's recruiting cred has already taken a significant hit so that's probably why I framed it that way.
I don't think this class will fall apart. I do seriously doubt we will finish #2 in the nation. And I am afraid that we will fall short in the sense that we will fall out of the top 3 classes in the SEC overall.
I don't think this class will fall apart. I do seriously doubt we will finish #2 in the nation. And I am afraid that we will fall short in the sense that we will fall out of the top 3 classes in the SEC overall.
I agree our ranking will drop (LSU for example is in on/leads for about 6 remaining 5 stars)but if he holds the current commits, maybe adds another top guy in Scott or Jackson at need positions, then he will have put together a great class that addresses nearly all positional needs and signicantly improves team speed and athletic ability, regardless of the final ranking.
I agree our ranking will drop (LSU for example is in on/leads for about 6 remaining 5 stars)but if he holds the current commits, maybe adds another top guy in Scott or Jackson at need positions, then he will have put together a great class that addresses nearly all positional needs and signicantly improves team speed and athletic ability, regardless of the final ranking.
Yeah, I think final ranking is very important. Any coach here should be able to simply improve over last year's recruiting class (which was lower ranked than any Dooley signed class and as low ranked as any but one other class this century, IIRC) and seemingly bring in talent more impressive than what just graduated.
I think we have to finish in the top 3 or 4 in the SEC in recruiting to have any sort of confidence that we will ever be more than a middle of the pack team under Butch. We've already seen what he can do with players that aren't as talented as the other team (4 blow out losses attest to that) and we've seen them lose to a team with less talent.
In all likelihood, given the legacies and the "free pass" nature of Butch's first year, this is the highest rated class Butch will sign here. If he is still finishing behind most of the top tier of the SEC, then it would be almost impossible to believe that he will ever join them.
Yeah, I think final ranking is very important. Any coach here should be able to simply improve over last year's recruiting class (which was lower ranked than any Dooley signed class and as low ranked as any but one other class this century, IIRC) and seemingly bring in talent more impressive than what just graduated.
I think we have to finish in the top 3 or 4 in the SEC in recruiting to have any sort of confidence that we will ever be more than a middle of the pack team under Butch. We've already seen what he can do with players that aren't as talented as the other team (4 blow out losses attest to that) and we've seen them lose to a team with less talent.
In all likelihood, given the legacies and the "free pass" nature of Butch's first year, this is the highest rated class Butch will sign here. If he is still finishing behind most of the top tier of the SEC, then it would be almost impossible to believe that he will ever join them.
But if a couple other teams leapfrog UT because they land a 5 star or 2 on NSD....and Butch keeps this class in tact as it's currently constituted, doesn't lose anybody from a class that is currently 2nd-3rd rated, is it diminished if it falls to the 5th or 6th rated class?
But if a couple other teams leapfrog UT because they land a 5 star or 2 on NSD....and Butch keeps this class in tact as it's currently constituted, doesn't lose anybody from a class that is currently 2nd-3rd rated, is it diminished if it falls to the 5th or 6th rated class?
Yes. A 5th or 6th rated class in the SEC means that you aren't doing much more vis a vis your competitors than Dooley was, and much less than the guys who have been successful here.
You can say "but Butch took over such a bad program, how can you blame him for not making a huge leap?" But it's not about blame. It's about what is going to work here and what won't. And, realistically, I can't see this staff winning that much with lesser talent than most of their competition. Especially after what we've seen so far.
But honestly, I don't see how we fall to 5th or 6th in the SEC unless we lose more commitments.
edit: I'm talking about 5th or 6th ranked in the SEC, not nationally, in case there is some confusion there.
Florida is indeed beatable..... just not by the University of Tennessee. Until UT shows that they even get the game into the 4th qtr vs Fla, much less win the game, they start the season 0-1 as long as the Gators are on the schedule.
Yeah. UT has made a habit of figuring out how to lose to UT even when the talent was close... and except for Kiffin's show... have not kept it close when UF had more talent.
IMO, this is the test for a UT coach. UT has outcoached UF only once since Zook left. The Gators are THE most important game to prove the program is headed in the right direction.
Yes. A 5th or 6th rated class in the SEC means that you aren't doing much more vis a vis your competitors than Dooley was, and much less than the guys who have been successful here.
You can say "but Butch took over such a bad program, how can you blame him for not making a huge leap?" But it's not about blame. It's about what is going to work here and what won't. And, realistically, I can't see this staff winning that much with lesser talent than most of their competition. Especially after what we've seen so far.
But honestly, I don't see how we fall to 5th or 6th in the SEC unless we lose more commitments.
edit: I'm talking about 5th or 6th ranked in the SEC, not nationally, in case there is some confusion there.
I was talking 5th or 6th nationally. Saw your edit.
I was talking 5th or 6th nationally. Saw your edit.
Yeah 5th or 6th nationally is another story. It would be tough to stomach if the 5 teams ahead of us were all SEC teams and especially if they get more key guys like defensive linemen and 5 star superstars, but yeah, you really can't ask much more than a top 5 rated class in the nation, even with our legacy guys giving us a bit of an advantage this year.
Yeah 5th or 6th nationally is another story. It would be tough to stomach if the 5 teams ahead of us were all SEC teams and especially if they get more key guys like defensive linemen and 5 star superstars, but yeah, you really can't ask much more than a top 5 rated class in the nation, even with our legacy guys giving us a bit of an advantage this year.
Good point. Wouldn't be nearly as impactful if we ranked 6th nationally but the 5 teams ahead of us were Bama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn and Mizzou.
VN Store
