Did Butch Jones do a good job coaching this season?

Did Butch Jones do a good job coaching UT in the 2013 season?

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#301
#301
sjt18 said:
I'm sure this is being discussed somewhere in the f-ball forum but I didn't see a dedicated thread...

Jones' recruiting kudos took a fairly significant hit today with the loss of Lambert.
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Really? Losing one player during a down year and his first year means his recruiting "kudos" takes a hit? No school lands every player they want and the fact that he pulled in this great of a class in the first place means, IMO anyway, that CBJ for this year has done an outstanding job recruiting.

Seems to me you are looking for another reason to complain about Butch as per usual.
 
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#302
#302
volfan_89 said:
Really? Losing one player during a down year and his first year means his recruiting "kudos" takes a hit? No school lands every player they want and the fact that he pulled in this great of a class in the first place means, IMO anyway, that CBJ for this year has done an outstanding job recruiting.

Seems to me you are looking for another reason to complain about Butch as per usual.
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Your ignorance... is simply astonishing. You fail to read and miss the entire point when you do. I'm not going to spoon feed you this time.
 
#304
#304
sjt18 said:
Your ignorance... is simply astonishing. You fail to read and miss the entire point when you do. I'm not going to spoon feed you this time.
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I think most people would agree that losing one player out of an incredible class would hardly be considered taking a hit. Happens every year at almost every school.
 
#305
#305
sjt18 said:
I'm sure this is being discussed somewhere in the f-ball forum but I didn't see a dedicated thread...

Jones' recruiting kudos took a fairly significant hit today with the loss of Lambert.

Yes. It is easier to sell a team playing in the NC game than one that just went 5-7. But don't try to tell me out of the other side of your mouth that it isn't important for Jones to win early AND that the difference between 7-5 and 5-7 doesn't mean anything.

Many of you didn't/don't want to hear it but this effect will get MUCH worse if the staff doesn't figure out how to win big games with less than ideal rosters. They're going to have less than ideal rosters for at least a year and probably 2.

Recruits are attracted to winners. Right now, Jones is selling hope. He better be selling some reality in future years.
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Agree with everything in your post, all of the context, with the exception of "his recruiting kudos took a significant hit" statement.

Significant would imply "big" or "important" here. Just don't think losing one 4star player, even he was important to the class, rises to the level you suggest, not at this moment. If he loses a handful more, 2,3 or 4 more of his key commitments then we can talk.

The fact that he still has a top class, after a 7 loss season speaks volumes. Losing 1 doesn't all of a sudden mean that his recruiting credibility has taken a significant hit IMHO
 
#306
#306
KBVol said:
Agree with everything in your post, all of the context, with the exception of "his recruiting kudos took a significant hit" statement.

Significant would imply "big" or "important" here. Just don't think losing one 4star player, even he was important to the class, rises to the level you suggest, not at this moment. If he loses a handful more, 2,3 or 4 more of his key commitments then we can talk.

The fact that he still has a top class, after a 7 loss season speaks volumes. Losing 1 doesn't all of a sudden mean that his recruiting credibility has taken a significant hit IMHO
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He had a chance to sign 4 guys. He signed 3 and lost arguably the most important commitment (it's especially frustrating too because, once again, we fail to sign big high-rated guys on the defensive line. the story of pretty much every recruiting class here in the past 5 years).

Does it mean that this recruiting class will end up mediocre by SEC standards? Maybe not. Certainly, if that's all we lose, it will still be a very good class. But, from where we stand right now, it's not a good sign for how the next two months will play out before the class is actually signed. All that matters in recruiting is how you close.
 
#308
#308
volfan_89 said:
I think most people would agree that losing one player out of an incredible class would hardly be considered taking a hit. Happens every year at almost every school.
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I would too. My major point in several posts on this comment is that Jones has done a great job of selling a dream. Selling reality as Malzahn can do now is better... but Jones is doing great selling his vision. But sooner rather than later you'll see many more of these types of defections (if they even show interest to start with) if those dreams aren't backed up by something significantly better than what we saw from Jones' team on the field in 2013.

You can make every excuse in the world... but the recruits will eventually stop believing promises and excuses in favor of coaches who are actually making their "visions" come true.
 
#310
#310
KBVol said:
Agree with everything in your post, all of the context, with the exception of "his recruiting kudos took a significant hit" statement.

Significant would imply "big" or "important" here. Just don't think losing one 4star player, even he was important to the class, rises to the level you suggest, not at this moment. If he loses a handful more, 2,3 or 4 more of his key commitments then we can talk.

The fact that he still has a top class, after a 7 loss season speaks volumes. Losing 1 doesn't all of a sudden mean that his recruiting credibility has taken a significant hit IMHO
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He is ranked by Rivals as the #2 JUCO player in the country. Many here hailed it as a major coup when Jones got his commitment. You can't just turn around now and downplay it.

As a player, it could be somewhat major. He might have been an immediate starter at a position of need. From the "image" standpoint of Jones building a "great" class... it was a significant hit.
 
#311
#311
oregonvol said:
He had a chance to sign 4 guys. He signed 3 and lost arguably the most important commitment (it's especially frustrating too because, once again, we fail to sign big high-rated guys on the defensive line. the story of pretty much every recruiting class here in the past 5 years).

Does it mean that this recruiting class will end up mediocre by SEC standards? Maybe not. Certainly, if that's all we lose, it will still be a very good class. But, from where we stand right now, it's not a good sign for how the next two months will play out before the class is actually signed. All that matters in recruiting is how you close.
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All pretty much true except that Blair was by far and away the most important of the 4.
 
#313
#313
3rd_and_Jancek said:
You are not allowed to question anything regarding coaches or players.If you do, you hate UT, you're a troll, or an idiot. Don't you just love it?
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Yep. And all I really want is coaches capable of winning championships at UT... and have not even said Jones wasn't just such a coach yet. Amazing how fragile some people can be.
 
#315
#315
oregonvol said:
Maybe, but I think it's closer than you let on. We were horrible at rushing the passer last year.
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They were better with Saulsberry though. I think he's the overlooked guy. This guy could have been the other DT or provide depth.

Looking at UT's OL roster and commits.... Blair is really the only natural LT I see. I'm not really sure what they do as a back up for him. James was Tiny's back up last year though a walk on was listed in the two deep.
 
#316
#316
sjt18 said:
Yep. And all I really want is coaches capable of winning championships at UT... and have not even said Jones wasn't just such a coach yet. Amazing how fragile some people can be.
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Same here. Just because I don't think the coaching was all that great this year doesn't mean I hate Butch and want him fired. I think he can make it here.He can definitely recruit.
 
#317
#317
3rd_and_Jancek said:
Same here. Just because I don't think the coaching was all that great this year doesn't mean I hate Butch and want him fired. I think he can make it here.He can definitely recruit.
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I am encouraged by the recent quote suggesting he realizes the coaching and their approach needs to be changed and adjusted... but I still want to see actions and results.

Jones is a great talker. And I say that with genuine appreciation for how important that can be for a HC. But he still has to coach and get his staff to coach at a "championship level".

Over the course of my career I have just developed a caution light response when someone keeps telling me how great things are going to be when the objective results don't match.
 
#318
#318
sjt18 said:
I am encouraged by the recent quote suggesting he realizes the coaching and their approach needs to be changed and adjusted... but I still want to see actions and results.

Jones is a great talker. And I say that with genuine appreciation for how important that can be for a HC. But he still has to coach and get his staff to coach at a "championship level".

Over the course of my career I have just developed a caution light response when someone keeps telling me how great things are going to be when the objective results don't match.
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How could you not be cautious at this point? Being cautious doesn't mean you're hoping Butch fails. Although some of the pumpers take it like that. Its silly.
 
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#319
#319
sjt18 said:
I am encouraged by the recent quote suggesting he realizes the coaching and their approach needs to be changed and adjusted... but I still want to see actions and results.
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Yeah, but what I saw was a short quote mentioning coaches adjusting and then a much longer section about speed. I hope that Butch doesn't sincerely think speed is our one major hurdle. We've had so many guys out of position on defense and so many failing to tackle, that we could have 11 Usain Bolts out there and it wouldn't make a difference. Also, on offense, no amount of speed is going to let you just consistently run around the edge in the SEC, which is what we seem to want to do. And, speed won't make up for running plays that are so slow to develop, where the QB just holds on to the ball and pretends to option, wasting time. Look at other successful offenses in the SEC and see how quickly they get the ball to the ball carrier and start moving forward. That's not a speed thing, it's a scheme thing.

But, I think his recent press conference was aimed primarily at recruits, so I'm hoping the speed emphasis is more his pitch to them and they are working hard on scheme and technique deficiencies as well.
 
#320
#320
Honestly looking at the '14 schedule (I know it's being arm chair QB in late December), it appears that the Vandy game will be for a bowl game again.

Utah State - W
Arky State - W
At Oklahoma - L
At Georgia - L
Florida - W
UTC - W
At Ole Miss - L
Alabama - L
At S. Carolina - L
Kentucky - W
Mizzou - L
At Vandy - ?

I do think the Georgia, Ole Miss, Carolina, Mizzou, and Vandy games are all winnable. So, what will change to make Team 118 a 10-2 type team instead of a possible 5-7 again?
 
#321
#321
Titans Fan said:
Honestly looking at the '14 schedule (I know it's being arm chair QB in late December), it appears that the Vandy game will be for a bowl game again.

Utah State - W
Arky State - W
At Oklahoma - L
At Georgia - L
Florida - W
UTC - W
At Ole Miss - L
Alabama - L
At S. Carolina - L
Kentucky - W
Mizzou - L
At Vandy - ?

I do think the Georgia, Ole Miss, Carolina, Mizzou, and Vandy games are all winnable. So, what will change to make Team 118 a 10-2 type team instead of a possible 5-7 again?
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They won't be 10-2. After the way we finished the season, I wouldn't even count Utah State as a sure win, and I certainly wouldn't put us as the favorites against Florida. It seems like we'll have to upset a couple of folks to even get to 6-6, but we pretty much have to at least get there. Two seasons with no bowl game and no improvement would make it very hard for Butch to survive here long term.
 
#322
#322
oregonvol said:
They won't be 10-2. After the way we finished the season, I wouldn't even count Utah State as a sure win, and I certainly wouldn't put us as the favorites against Florida. It seems like we'll have to upset a couple of folks to even get to 6-6, but we pretty much have to at least get there. Two seasons with no bowl game and no improvement would make it very hard for Butch to survive here long term.
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The only reason I gave a W against FL, is because it's similar to this year's SC game. The Vols were hungry and had a few plays go in favor. The streak has to end sometime.
 
#323
#323
Titans Fan said:
Honestly looking at the '14 schedule (I know it's being arm chair QB in late December), it appears that the Vandy game will be for a bowl game again.

Utah State - W
Arky State - W
At Oklahoma - L
At Georgia - L
Florida - W
UTC - W
At Ole Miss - L
Alabama - L
At S. Carolina - L
Kentucky - W
Mizzou - L
At Vandy - ?

I do think the Georgia, Ole Miss, Carolina, Mizzou, and Vandy games are all winnable. So, what will change to make Team 118 a 10-2 type team instead of a possible 5-7 again?
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Mizzou has a pattern under Pinkel. They recruit a bunch of project players then win with them as upperclassmen then they'll have some down years. The schedule kind of laid down for them this year but IMO they still significantly overachieved. They lose a lot of playmakers and were never a very deep team. Their recruiting really hasn't improved all that much in spite of their success.

It is definitely winnable. UF and USCe are winnable. Ole Miss is more talented than UT as is UGA even with the loss of Murray. UT should pound Vandy... of course they should have beaten them this year.

If the coaching improves then I think 6-6 will show some progress.
 
#324
#324
Titans Fan said:
The only reason I gave a W against FL, is because it's similar to this year's SC game. The Vols were hungry and had a few plays go in favor. The streak has to end sometime.
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Yeah, but folks predict the streak to end every year. I'll believe it when I see it. We almost always give a poor effort against them, no matter the talent of either team. This year was no exception.
 
#325
#325
oregonvol said:
Yeah, but folks predict the streak to end every year. I'll believe it when I see it. We almost always give a poor effort against them, no matter the talent of either team. This year was no exception.
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Had not thought about it in those terms.... but that makes UF a pretty important test for any new UT coach, doesn't it? The ability to get over whatever that obstacle is....
 
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