Different camera angle on Pig Fumble. MUST SEE!

#77
#77
Im_Vol_In said:
1) The call on the field was touchdown.

2) He clearly fumbles the ball before landing.

3) He removes his right hand from the ball in an attempt to extend for the goal line with the ball in his left hand. He possesses the ball with his left hand for a brief time before losing possession. Granted, It was not a very secure possession, but it is possible to possess a ball with one hand in this nature. The ball shows no signs of spinning or being out of control until around the time it crosses the goa line.

Had it been ruled a touchback on the field, there is no way one can conclusively rule otherwise. However it was ruled a touchdown on the field and I have seen no conclusive evidence that it was not a touchdown.
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Bingo.
 
#78
#78
Let me preface this with the fact that I understand that after the review the ref said there was indisputable evidence of a fumble before the ball hits the goal line. Let me also say that I agreed with the ref, that this was a fumble before crossing the goal line until watching this play from both perspectives. This has already been stated in this thread but watch the video below.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101730034997885&l=8763749815101661955

The ball is in Pig's possession until it starts moving downward right?

Now this gif again and take not of when the ball starts moving downward.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1843311/tenfumble.gif

The ball is almost ENTIRELY past the goal line before it starts to move downward. I absolutely believe this should have been a touchdown and also believe that it's suspect that we only got to see one angle on CBS.
 
#79
#79
Im_Vol_In said:
1) The call on the field was touchdown.

2) He clearly fumbles the ball before landing.

3) He removes his right hand from the ball in an attempt to extend for the goal line with the ball in his left hand. He possesses the ball with his left hand for a brief time before losing possession. Granted, It was not a very secure possession, but it is possible to possess a ball with one hand in this nature. The ball shows no signs of spinning or being out of control until around the time it crosses the goa line.

Had it been ruled a touchback on the field, there is no way one can conclusively rule otherwise. However it was ruled a touchdown on the field and I have seen no conclusive evidence that it was not a touchdown.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with this interpretation after seeing the video from the EZ. Not enough evidence to overturn it, the ball was in possession in the left hand crossing the goal line, doesn't matter if Pig fumbled one millisec afterwards.
 
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#80
#80
volnomnom said:
Let me preface this with the fact that I understand that after the review the ref said there was indisputable evidence of a fumble before the ball hits the goal line. Let me also say that I agreed with the ref, that this was a fumble before crossing the goal line until watching this play from both perspectives. This has already been stated in this thread but watch the video below.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101730034997885&l=8763749815101661955

The ball is in Pig's possession until it starts moving downward right?

Now this gif again and take not of when the ball starts moving downward.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1843311/tenfumble.gif

The ball is almost ENTIRELY past the goal line before it starts to move downward. I absolutely believe this should have been a touchdown and also believe that it's suspect that we only got to see one angle on CBS.
Click to expand...

This is absolutely correct. It was a touchdown, was called a touchdown, and was overruled by the replay official WITHOUT indisputable evidence.

Yes, when looking at it in full speed, it appears to be an obvious "fumble". But, as you stated. Watch both vids and you'll see it indisputably was a touchdown.

#1 The endzone view show conclusively that Pig was holding the ball intially when he switched to the left hand. It was NOT being just pushed from the moment it left both hands as the sideline view might cause you to think.
#2 The endzone view shows when he loses control. That is at the exact time his feet and defender collide, jolting the ball loose. As you say it takes a downward path at that moment.
... still from the endzone view you can't tell if he's broken the plane or not ...
#3 Go back to sideline view and see when hit occurred and when trajectory of ball started downward = moment of loss of control. You will see conclusively that this occurs 1/2 way into the end zone line.
#4 He has crossed the plane in control. That is a touchdown folks. Period.
#5 But he fumbled. No, after he touched the plane in control, which we have proven, then the play is dead. And it's a 6 point score. Touchdown. Whatever happened to the ball after the touchdown is irrelevant, whether he held it or not. He was holding it in control WHEN the play ended!

Bad overturn. Not indisputable. Replay official bit the distraction of the bouncing ball (like I did) and ASSUMED that he lost control before breaking the plane. Wrong Call.
 
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#81
#81
azVolFan said:
Bingo.
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azVolFan said:
Sarcasm or douche?
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VolsSportsFan said:
Every time I watched it, I saw a clear fumble. The replay officials obviously had the same experience; hence they saw definite evidence.
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volnomnom said:
Let me preface this with the fact that I understand that after the review the ref said there was indisputable evidence of a fumble before the ball hits the goal line. Let me also say that I agreed with the ref, that this was a fumble before crossing the goal line until watching this play from both perspectives. This has already been stated in this thread but watch the video below.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10101730034997885&l=8763749815101661955

The ball is in Pig's possession until it starts moving downward right?

Now this gif again and take not of when the ball starts moving downward.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1843311/tenfumble.gif

The ball is almost ENTIRELY past the goal line before it starts to move downward. I absolutely believe this should have been a touchdown and also believe that it's suspect that we only got to see one angle on CBS.
Click to expand...

I kept asking "how do they not have another angle?" From seeing the CBS angle, I thought it was probably not a touchdown, but was definitely inconclusive. You just could not even see his left hand to tell what was going on.

It is just so frustrating to see people (announcers, vol fans, uga fans, replay officials) say so quickly, "yep, was definitely not a touchdown". I just don't see how any reasonable person can claim, even after only seeing the cbs replay, that it was DEFINITELY not a touchdown.
 
#83
#83
Volle said:
... doesn't matter if Pig fumbled one millisec afterwards.
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Nailed it. But since it bounced out the sideline view APPEARED to show him lose control before the goal line. UT got hosed by the replay officials.

They missed it like I did at first. By assuming and making a quick decision on first appearance. Did you notice how fast the ruling came down from the replay booth? Knee jerk IMO.
 
#84
#84
In fact, the view of the replay is partially blocked by the head of the official who made the initial call and had a better view of the play than anyone (including the replay official).
 
#85
#85
livefaith said:
Nailed it. But since it bounced out the sideline view APPEARED to show him lose control before the goal line. UT got hosed by the replay officials.

They missed it like I did at first. By assuming and making a quick decision on first appearance. Did you notice how fast the ruling came down from the replay booth? Knee jerk IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes. Danielson said something about how they were taking their time and I thought they didn't take very long at all.
 
#86
#86
Great video. It looked on tv he lost the ball almost as soon as he moved his right hand off the ball. Here it looks like he possess the ball the entire way until he was hit. Again great video, thankks for posting.
 
#88
#88
I was at the game and got to see a replay on the tv in front of me and thought they called it right. Then, I got back to the hotel and saw a replay on Sportscenter, and it was much closer than I had originally thought. Tough play. I think the argument is whether there was indisputable evidence to overturn it.
 
#89
#89
You can't use the end zone view, guys. You are reaching, desperately. First, you can't tell where Howard is in relation to the goal line, and second you can't tell if the ball is in his hand or not. The ball could have left his hand and been just beyond his fingertips. which is precisely what happened. The side view is the best view, obviously, and it shows he lost control of the ball. He appears to still have a finger tip or two on the very end of the ball--but does a finger touching the end of the ball constitute possession? I don't think so. He lost it.
 
#90
#90
PeytonBerry said:
Nobody disputes it was a fumble, just when the fumble occurred. The side angle made it look like his left hand never had any control of the ball. This angle shows that he did.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just wanted to share something I found interesting.
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Agreed, once the nose of the ball crossed the line, it's a TD no matter what happens afterward. If Gaffney's catch was a TD years ago, then Pig's should have held up. The lack of definitive evidence was obvious when they froze the video on the jumbotron, ball touching the plain of the goal line, and pig's hand still on the ball.
 
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#91
#91
The fact is nobody knows whether or not Pig had a grasp of the ball with his left hand when the ball crossed the front edge of the white goal line. The evidence in all the views is inconclusive therefore since ìt was ruled a touchdown on the field, it should have remained a touchdown. However, I am completely confident that the refs would have hosed us by calling multiple penalties on the other end giving Murray 18 attemps from the 2 to get a TD so we'd of probably lost anyway!
 
#93
#93
I slept on it guys, and I woke up so proud of our boys. I also took a fresh look this morning, and trying to be as objective as possible, I still don't think there was indisputable evidence. If there is any question, the call stands. Looking at both videos, I think that was the case.

At the same time, I sort of don't care. Because what happened yesterday doesn't change how great I feel about the team I saw yesterday. Saban lost a lot of close games his first year at Bama, but you could see something great was developing. Gentlemen, 50+ big time recruits saw an exciting coach, exciting plays, exciting players, exciting uniforms, and they saw it all in front of 100k exciting fans. Something special happened yesterday and the long-term affect will far out-weigh the short-term heart break.

All that said, I still like talking about the call. It's kind of therapeutic for me, and I think we actually have a case. GO VOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#95
#95
NMVol said:
Appears to me this angle makes it more conclusively a TD.
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If you see the sideline angle, it is conclusively NOT a TD. The Ball was clearly out of his controlled grasp at 1/2 yard from the goal line. When the ball crossed into the end zone, Pig was not even touching it.

If the ball had gone out on the side line, Vols would have had it at the 1 with another chance to punch it in. In this case it was correctly ruled a touchback. It is what it is.
 
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#96
#96
VolunteerTitan3 said:
The refs were gonna make sure we didn't spoil the dawgs national championship hopes regardless!
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That's something I woke up in my mind with. We put a hurting on them for sure. I have not seen their schedule and I've heard it should be easy from here on out, but with the amount of players that went down, how long before they lose another game?

How far can they go now? costly victory for them.
 
#97
#97
Football is a game of inches and this play was about four inches from a touchdown.
 
#98
#98
TNnative said:
If you see the sideline angle, it is conclusively NOT a TD. The Ball was clearly out of his controlled grasp at 1/2 yard from the goal line. When the ball crossed into the end zone, Pig was not even touching it.

If the ball had gone out on the side line, Vols would have had it at the 1 with another chance to punch it in. In this case it was correctly ruled a touchback. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

With all due respect I don't see what your seeing. I see the ball come out of his right hand but I've not seen a view that shows the ball come out of his left hand. The rule is indisputable evidence. The TD should have stood.
 
#99
#99
I think if Pig doesn't try to switch hands...it's down on the 4 inch line.

Sophmore mistake by a guy that definitely gave his ALL FOR TENNESSEE that day...I'll take it no matter what the outcome!!!
 
#100
#100
Didn't see it yesterday, but from watching the replay, I am not sure it is a fumble before the nose of the ball breaks the white line.
 
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