Disappearance of Dennis Martin-Unsolved Mystery in the Smokies

#51
#51
pismonque said:
Okay, here's the problem I have with conspiracy theories: they don't account for the illogical and the stupid. Conspiracy theories arise when the known available facts don't add up to explain some situation. But in finding a rational explanation they never account for people who are ridiculously stupid, or people who lie for the fun of it, or people with totally unrelated and obscure personal agendas, or just bizarre coincidence.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard some citizen say conspiratorially, "You know why the government's doing this? It's because so-and-so's in bed with so-and-so and blah blah blah...." But I was in the damn room when the particular decision was made and it was simply because one idiot in charge simply didn't understand and no one else would press the matter out of self-preservation. They'd just roll their eyes and make jokes after the meeting.

I've seen first hand so many times how completely illogical decisions get made out of a combination of idiocy, ignorance, tangential self-interests and simple employment-level self-preservation, that I rarely put any stock in conspiracy theories because they assume way too much competence on the part of the actors.

I haven't read up on any of these disappearances but my general experience always tells me that the theories miss real possibilities by the very act of seeking rational explanations.
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All of the cases he has worked has accounted for these probabilities. If you do a little more reading on the subject you will find that he states as much. If I remember correctly, he states that 99% of missing folks are for the very reasons you have listed above.

It's that 1% that's odd and he investigates.

I find no fault with him trying to help a family get some closure.
 
#52
#52
sona said:
Hard to take it seriously when he can't get the right park in the right state.
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While that's true, some of the cases are very mysterious by all accounts, not just his. One of the weirdest is the discovery of the corpse of Charles Macullers (I think that's his name) at Crater Lake.
 
#53
#53
I know the Dennis Martin story and not a year goes by that I don't think about him. Usually comes to mind when I am hiking. Logic says he was taken from the park, but I feel like he is still there.

The search efforts helped write the book on how NOT to perform a search. Too many agencies, very little cooperation. It was haphazard at best.

Very sad for the family. I can't imagine losing a child a like that.
 
#54
#54
Yankee_Vol said:
I stayed up til midnight last night listening to David Paulides
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I have done this several times. Some of them simply cant be explained at all with logic. Toddlers found on the face of a cliff, clean as a whistle. One of the things that bothers me the most about a lot of these cases is the dogs. When the dogs are scared and refuse to track, or cadaver dogs cant find a scent that is strong enough to usually be smelled for miles...something is way wrong. Then a body shows up a couple hundred yards away..in an area that was previously searched repeatedly. Hunting dogs, rescue dogs, they LIVE to do their jobs. Nothing else matters. They would rather do nothing else. For those types of dogs to lay down at a trail head and refuse to work...refuse to track a scent off a piece of clothing...that simply doesnt happen. I cant imagine what would scare those dogs like that, but it happens in a lot of the cases Paulides investigates. They bring several different dogs, with different handlers, and all refuse to track.
 
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#55
#55
marcusluvsvols said:
I have done this several times. Some of them simply cant be explained at all with logic. Toddlers found on the face of a cliff, clean as a whistle. One of the things that bothers me the most about a lot of these cases is the dogs. When the dogs are scared and refuse to track, or cadaver dogs cant find a scent that is strong enough to usually be smelled for miles...something is way wrong. Then a body shows up a couple hundred yards away..in an area that was previously searched repeatedly. Hunting dogs, rescue dogs, they LIVE to do their jobs. Nothing else matters. They would rather do nothing else. For those types of dogs to lay down at a trail head and refuse to work...refuse to track a scent off a piece of clothing...that simply doesnt happen. I cant imagine what would scare those dogs like that, but it happens in a lot of the cases Paulides investigates. They bring several different dogs, with different handlers, and all refuse to track.
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Yep


And when a missing persons clothes are found neatly folded up, yet no trace of a body, and in the dead of winter.

Some crazy stuff.
 
#58
#58
Any lifelong residents of knoxville remember a little boy named dennis martin who vanished on a camping trip with his family near cades cove in, i think, '68? I know it was big news back then. I read about it and it instantly hit a nerve with me. A story with very disturbing details and very sad too. I think his dad just recently passed away..anyhow, a very sad story indeed
 
#59
#59
boxerpupsrcool said:
Any lifelong residents of knoxville remember a little boy named dennis martin who vanished on a camping trip with his family near cades cove in, i think, '68? I know it was big news back then. I read about it and it instantly hit a nerve with me. A story with very disturbing details and very sad too. I think his dad just recently passed away..anyhow, a very sad story indeed
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I have done a lot of reading and research on this.

I'm very sorry to hear of the passing of his father.
 
#61
#61
boxerpupsrcool said:
I have too. Of all the missing children cases ive read about, this one is by far the most disturbing
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David Paulides had a special on this case. I don't know if you ever have had the opportunity to listened to it, but it's on YouTube. Very disturbing and interesting at the same time.
 
#63
#63
Obsessed said:
David Paulides had a special on this case. I don't know if you ever have had the opportunity to listened to it, but it's on YouTube. Very disturbing and interesting at the same time.
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I was going to mention paulides because i have all his books and ive listened to all of his radio appearences including on coast to coast. He goes into great detail about the dennis martin case in one of his books..
 
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#64
#64
One of the craziest things about the David Martin case was the fact that Green Berets were brought in to search at one point.
 
#65
#65
davethevol said:
One of the craziest things about the David Martin case was the fact that Green Berets were brought in to search at one point.
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It is very odd because green berets primary missions are ones that include rooting out terrorists, guerrilla warfare (think vietnam), combat search and rescue and rescuing hostages, and these situations occur almost always in foreign countries, not here in the US.

This begs the question, why do you need a group of elite, heavily armed soldiers to search for a missing boy? I think there is a lot to this story that we will never know
 
#66
#66
Heres another really weird fact about this case that paulides uncovered and that was first the fbi assisted in the case, and the lead fbi investigator on this case later killed himself in an apparent suicide..

There are so many twists and turns in this case. If there are any aspiring filmmakers out there, this story would make a great documentary..
 
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#67
#67
Heres my theory on what happened to little dennis and you guys that know the case can tell me if im just way off base here or not

Its known, and not all park rangers will admit this, that very violet individuals live off the grid in the smokey mountains. I think dennis was kidnapped by one of them and was taken underground in one of the many cave systems that are under the park. I think thats one of the main reasons why the intensive search could never find the boy and could also explain the green berets
 
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#68
#68
Torrential rains hit that area the night of the disappearance. He probably wandered into a deep vee coming off the mountain and was washed away and drowned in the torrent.

I've hiked, hunted, and fished all over those mountains. Inside the park and out, I've never encountered an off the grid person.
 
#69
#69
ruger1234 said:
Torrential rains hit that area the night of the disappearance. He probably wandered into a deep vee coming off the mountain and was washed away and drowned in the torrent.

I've hiked, hunted, and fished all over those mountains. Inside the park and out, I've never encountered an off the grid person.
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You know ive thought about that scenario too. A very likely one as well.

What about a bear? Could a black bear attacked and carried him off? Have you encountered many black bear in the smokies?
 
#70
#70
The reason i think it was a kidnapping is that another family that was watching wildlife in the cades cove area at around the same time of dennis's disappearance, said they heard a loud child like shriek and saw what they described as someone running in between trees with what looked like something on its shoulders. They tried to tell the fbi about what they witnessed, but wasnt taken seriously
 
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#71
#71
Black bears are very reclusive. I've seen them but not that often. I think he drowned, when the scent got strong enough the scavengers, including black bears cleaned up.
 
#72
#72
ruger1234 said:
Black bears are very reclusive. I've seen them but not that often. I think he drowned, when the scent got strong enough the scavengers, including black bears cleaned up.
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Interesting..some years later, a little boys shoe was found apparently near a creek bank, so that def could support the theory that he did indeed drown after getting lost and disoriented
 
#73
#73
boxerpupsrcool said:
The reason i think it was a kidnapping is that another family that was watching wildlife in the cades cove area at around the same time of dennis's disappearance, said they heard a loud child like shriek and saw what they described as someone running in between trees with what looked like something on its shoulders. They tried to tell the fbi about what they witnessed, but wasnt taken seriously
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Plus there were witness accounts of what looked like a disheveled man peering out from the trees that made them uncomfortable shortly before the boy went missing.
 
#74
#74
davethevol said:
Plus there were witness accounts of what looked like a disheveled man peering out from the trees that made them uncomfortable shortly before the boy went missing.
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Ive heard that too..so eerie, but so sad at the same time..i cant imagine what the mom and dad had to endure all those years wondering what happened to their baby boy
 
#75
#75
ruger1234 said:
Black bears are very reclusive. I've seen them but not that often. I think he drowned, when the scent got strong enough the scavengers, including black bears cleaned up.
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Have you been up around the spence field area, where the boy was last seen? I havent, but i have hiked a little bit of the Appalachian trail..
 
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