Ditch The Zone Read Running Game

#126
#126
Vol8188 said:
It gets blown up because our offensive line is bad.

Everyone knows Alabama and USCjr are goin to run zone. It seems to work fine for them.
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I'm just saying its more of a zone read mixed with a run and shoot. Not your true option zone read. Worley usually doesnt have the option to pull it out and run it. He is no threat therefore usually it's a simple hand off to the RB then the RB reads which gap he wants to hit from the zone blocking scheme. And yes our OLine in horrible so we need incorporate a lead blocker as we did with his long run. Which also had Malone motion behind the RB and QB and moved the lb out of position. (Although this is a QB read play)
 
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#127
#127
majic73 said:
This term zone read in its simplicity and mis-understanding in this offense is becoming a bit silly. Fans are looking at the play fake by the QB and making alot of wholesale assumptions and are missing the fundamentals as well as the complexities of the offense.

The OP is partially right with his analysis of the receivers being the main thrust of this offense. This offense is a hybrid of two mindsets : The West Coast Passing Game and the Rich Rod spread game

The main action of this offense IS NOT and never will be the QB READ OPTION ..despite the obvious play fake by the QB that so many love to talk about.

The QBs primary 'zone read' is to A ) hand off to the RB or B) pull the handoff and pass into a tier west coast route system . Typically layered routes that stretch the field horizontally and vertically with many high percentage routes underneath and comeback routes. As with any west coast game , aspects of the passing game are one in the same with the running game.

The 'zone read ' action that we all love to talk about , is not performed by the QB . It is performed by the RB . When he receives the handoff , the RB has a choice of gaps based on his read of the zone ...usually two inside and a backside 'cutback' run ( what is the H gap or F gap depending on the system ) This is also the lane that a QB runs in a true option zone read QB driven system .

So why does the QB execute the run fake ? Well , he is intended to keep the ball 2-3 times a game . He is also intended to boot out along this route 4-5 times a game . This threat also forces the defense to account for the empty gap .

Sooo the zone read is actually being run by the RBs and not the QB in this offense ...and the passing game is basically the Joe Montana style west coast layered attack

Where the offense is coming up short is execution. A freshman laden , rookie O line is inconsistent in their blocking ( completely normal thing here folks) and the freshman running back and the senior who was not here for much of the off season are having some recognition problems in the zone read ( that they are running NOT the QB ) These things will fix themselves with repetition and experience.

This running style is called the 'dive' offense and has worked fine in the NFL and will absolutely would fine in the SEC when blocked and executed well . The west coast passing game has worked fine at all levels of the NFL ...so dear OP , it will work here to when the top layers of the routes have time to develop due to sound O line play .

Just a side note on the OK game : They had flared out backers the entire game because they knew we could not block them inside...no cutback or outside zone running for anyone ! You wont see much out side zone against a competent 3-4 D because the outside backers hold the H gap easily ( stanford vs Oregon ) Because our freshman O line was getting beat quickly by one of the best D fronts in the country , the top layer routes could not develope. They had the luxury of sitting on all underneath routes and run gaps.

It comes down to blocking . When we can do that ...you guys will see how dynamic and fun this offense is . Stop waiting on the QB keepers !
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What is "H" gap?

And Worley is reading the DE on most plays. You can have a run/pass read on a zone read play, but you normally block the DE, run a slant at the backside lb, and read him. If he works downhill into "a" gap, like he should, you throw the slant. If he drops into his zone, you hand it off.

What we are doing is using the out or bubble routes as a presnap read. We are reading the de post snap.

So if Worley looks out and sees the nickel back walking in, he will just raise up and throw either an out or a bubble to the slot wr. If not, he will run the basic zone read.

In order to involve the slot in the read, he needs to run a slant. Otherwise he's just a presnap read or a 3rd option.
 
#128
#128
polkalumn01 said:
I'm just saying its more of a zone read mixed with a run and shoot. Not your true option zone read. Worley usually doesnt have the option to pull it out and run it. He is no threat therefore usually it's a simple hand off to the RB then the RB reads which gap he wants to hit from the zone blocking scheme. And yes our OLine in horrible so we need incorporate a lead blocker as we did with his long run. Which also had Malone motion behind the RB and QB and moved the lb out of position.
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1. Do you know what run n shoot means?

2. He's reading it most of the time. We just don't want him to keep it 20 times a game. Even our OC said he wanted him to pull more. That means we are reading it.
 
#129
#129
Correct me if I'm wrong but it uses WR motion to create mismatches and allow our WRs to adjust routes accordingly depending on db movement and placement.
 
#130
#130
Vol8188 said:
1. Do you know what run n shoot means?

2. He's reading it most of the time. We just don't want him to keep it 20 times a game. Even our OC said he wanted him to pull more. That means we are reading it.
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But didn't the EXPERTS say he is misreading 70% of the time. How can he be reading it and misreading at the same time?
 
#131
#131
polkalumn01 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but it uses WR motion to create mismatches and allow our WRs to adjust routes accordingly depending on db movement and placement.
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Correct actually, but when have we ever done this? It's common for them to us half roll out passes and play out of the pistol so they can roll either way.
 
#132
#132
polkalumn01 said:
But didn't the EXPERTS say he is misreading 70% of the time. How can he be reading it and misreading at the same time?
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1. What experts are you talking about?

2. If he is misreading it, then he has to be "reading it". That's part of the definition. If your coach says you need to keep more, then you are clearly reading it.
 
#133
#133
Worley needs to watch Tyler Murphy. Murphy knows when and how to run the read option.
 
#134
#134
Tux said:
This isn't the MAC or Big East.

Butch's offensive lineman recruiting paradigm is changing as well. He is seeing that you just can't plug in a tall, thin, mobile OL at the offensive tackle position. You have to build a big and strong offensive line made up of top recruits.
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this is just total junk, throw it out..useless..
o-line is not CBJ fault . (hewhoshouldnotbenamed) did this..not an excuse but fact. he has freshman starting on the 0-line. they are undersized?...well no ****.
 
#136
#136
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#138
#138
armchair said:
Ultimately, your QB has to make some plays himself in this game nowadays. Most do. If your QB is not making plays with his legs some, you are at a disadvantage in today's game--no question about that--unless you've got an bama-like defense or a great traditional passing attack. What is the point of us trying to protect Worley when every QB in the country is running some?
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We're not trying to protect Worley. Worley simply isn't pulling it enough. The press asked today if Worley was told not to run and the answer is nope. Worley needs to keep the ball more. He doesn't have to do it a lot but he can't keep doing what he's doing.
 
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#139
#139
volstopfan14 said:
I agree with a lot of this. We don't have the linemen to run this scheme right now (though I don't know that we have linemen to run any scheme) and Worley isn't really the ideal zone read quarterback. Late in the Oklahoma game we actually had some success using a lead blocker on some run plays. Specifically the counter we ran that got Hurd his long run.

I don't agree that a zone running offense can't be successful in the SEC. It can, you've just got to have the talent for it.

I wouldn't advocate scrapping it entirely, but we would be well served by going to more gap runs and mixing it up some more.
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i do think UTs offensive line will improve a lot as the year goes along,barring any injuries ,but to me,CBJs scheme will be lacking with out a running QB and from his recurring ,it doesn't look to get much better
 
#140
#140
governmentmule said:
i do think UTs offensive line will improve a lot as the year goes along,barring any injuries ,but to me,CBJs scheme will be lacking with out a running QB and from his recurring ,it doesn't look to get much better
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You don't have to be a running QB to run this. You simply have to have two legs that move and actually keep the ball and use those legs to attempt to move up field. When Worley has kept it he's done fine.
 
#141
#141
BigOrangeTrain said:
We don't even have a FB on the roster.

Official Football Roster - UTSPORTS.COM - University of Tennessee Athletics

So, um yeah you seem to be wrong again

Team by team offensive/defensive scheme profile
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http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...nessee-vs-arkansas-state-offense-defense.html

The first offensive play of the game against Ark ST. What do you consider the player in front of the RB and quarterback, but behind the offensive line? This is simply offset I formation.
 
#142
#142
UTProf said:
We're not trying to protect Worley. Worley simply isn't pulling it enough. The press asked today if Worley was told not to run and the answer is nope. Worley needs to keep the ball more. He doesn't have to do it a lot but he can't keep doing what he's doing.
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I get why he didn't at Ok. He was taking a lot of hits. I'm glad he didn't keep it and take another 3-5 hits.
 
#143
#143
#144
#144
BigOrangeTrain said:
So some times we employ one of the TE to act like a FB, big deal. We still don't have the personnel to run the read option.
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So we do play with a FB most of the time. Because that's almost always where he lines up. Thank you.

And what's wrong with our personnel?
 
#148
#148
Vol8188 said:
It gets blown up because our offensive line is bad.

Everyone knows Alabama and USCjr are goin to run zone. It seems to work fine for them.
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I know you're an x's and o's guy, vol81. Honest question, do you think that the read option is best run with a pocket passing quarterback? I agree that zone blocking scheme is not the problem fwiw. And yes, I fully acknowledge that our oline is poo poo.
 
#149
#149
The offense is the weakest link in the chain thus far and they have the most talent. I am sure the coaches are discussing the problem everyday. Defense is getting off the field 87% of the time. I don't think this number will increase as we get into the SEC season. The offense has to find a way to keep the football and the run game is the obvious fixer-upper. 3 games in and I'm not sure what we are trying to do.
 
#150
#150
wilrob75 said:
I know you're an x's and o's guy, vol81. Honest question, do you think that the read option is best run with a pocket passing quarterback? I agree that zone blocking scheme is not the problem fwiw. And yes, I fully acknowledge that our oline is poo poo.
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In a hypothetical scenario where each player was equally gifted as a passer, I would prefer a more mobile quarterback in any scheme.

But you don't have to be a great athlete to run this, and it benefits the running game greatly. If you make the right read, there's no one there to tackle you. So athleticism is nice, but not mandatory. If benefits the running game overall because there is now one less player you have to block.

It's basic math. Of your qb is a part of the running game, regardless of his speed, you are playin 11 on 11. If not, you are playing 10 on 11.
 
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