Ditch The Zone Read Running Game

[Aesius]

I say that for a true shocker they do something in the Georgia game that has the Bulldog Defense puzzled all to hell.

Come out in a Wishbone set and just run the ball down their throats for 4 quarters.

You're right. Shouldn't be a problem to install a completely new offensive scheme in two weeks.

 

[majic73]

majic73 You keep telling everyone this isn't a zone read. It is a zone read all day. When you leave a defensive lineman unblocked and the QB reads what he's doing, taking the back or him it's a zone read or read option whichever you would like to call it.
Your claim that the QB isn't suppose to keep the ball and the back has the option where to run is wrong. The back might have the option to break outside or up the middle but the QB has the option to keep it before. If you claim was correct the defensive coordinator would just have defensive end tackle the back every play. If the QB isn't suppose to run it why account for him? If he's only suppose to keep it two to three times a game have the end tackle the back every play and a DB can tackle the QB after a ten yard game. You only give up 20 to 30 yards rushing per game all to the QB.
We ARE running a zone read or the coach wouldn't keep saying he needs to keep it more to keep defense honest. Your the only one , our coaches included that thinks Worley shouldn't be running it more.

This is our offense : Cincinnati Bearcats 2012 Highlights - YouTube Out of all the offensive plays , you see 2 or 3 QB zone keepers. From the zone. These Cinci QBs are runners and could have run all day.

In this offense you will see 2 or 3 QB keeps a game if you are lucky . This is a pass oriented offense. When the RB gets the give he is often running a dive play or a variation ...just disregard the QB fake . It is a Dive by the running back with or without the QB fake. If the QB stopped carrying out the run fake ...this offense could function exactly as it is without the fake

 

[YankeeVol]

In fact, Justin Worley has turned into one of college football's best passers.

Thats when I stopped reading and lol'd.

That's as far as I made it as well

 

[Burger]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Murphy a very mobile QB? Are there many teams running the read option with any success without a mobile QB?

Yes, but what makes it work so well is he knows when to pull it. He's gotten wide open carries because everybody crashed at the RB at the same time. I don't count on 65 yard runs, but I'm sure Worley can get a solid 5-10 most times.

 

[Vol8188]

This is our offense : Cincinnati Bearcats 2012 Highlights - YouTube Out of all the offensive plays , you see 2 or 3 QB zone keepers. From the zone. These Cinci QBs are runners and could have run all day.

In this offense you will see 2 or 3 QB keeps a game if you are lucky . This is a pass oriented offense. When the RB gets the give he is often running a dive play or a variation ...just disregard the QB fake . It is a Dive by the running back with or without the QB fake. If the QB stopped carrying out the run fake ...this offense could function exactly as it is without the fake

I still disagree with the idea that this is a called give. Oregons qb's kept about as often as ours. No one claims they aren't reading it. We simply don't want him keeping it 10 times a game. Doesn't mean he isn't reading it, just means he's been told to be selective. I couldn't imagine any college team not allowing their qb to read it.

 

[Bluetic]

I wonder if we will get the WR's into the run game some more. Urban Cryer won the title running a spread option offense with Chris Leak! One knock on the offense that makes sense is that Worley is not going to ever keep it enough to keep the D honest. Oh, and Oregons QB is leading the heisman race...he certainly keeps it enough to keep the D honest. The WR's could get the jet sweep plays and create alot of motion back there. I remember back then, and gator may be able to comment if he is here, that Urban called Rich Rod to get tipps on how to pick up the rushing slack created by the lack of a threat at QB. They used WR's and then Tebow came in on short yardage as a freshman. I think our WR's are better than what they had...just a thought. GBO!

 

[wilrob75]

In a hypothetical scenario where each player was equally gifted as a passer, I would prefer a more mobile quarterback in any scheme.

But you don't have to be a great athlete to run this, and it benefits the running game greatly. If you make the right read, there's no one there to tackle you. So athleticism is nice, but not mandatory. If benefits the running game overall because there is now one less player you have to block.

It's basic math. Of your qb is a part of the running game, regardless of his speed, you are playin 11 on 11. If not, you are playing 10 on 11.

I agree that the occasional 10 yard gain is there for worley, but no more than maybe twice a game. Teams will gladly sacrifice 15 yds rushing with Worley per game if that means that they will continuously shut down our offensive tempo, running game, and put us behind the chains on 3rd down. It's a no brainer. If I'm DC I defend the dive every rushing play, even if worley has rushed for 30 yards in the game. Sure, there is an occasional 7 yard gain there every now and again, but the offense can't make a living doing it. It's too gimmicky.

 

[Vol737]

A lot on here mention the success of the zone read at Auburn, Oregon etc.. And many on here denigrate those that question why we are running this offense. So please tell me, who's the QB on our roster that brings that kind of running threat to the scheme? A QB that defenses HAVE to account for like they have to account for Mariota, Nick Marshall, etc.? Dobbs may be the closest to a running threat, but I'm not sure that QB is on campus yet.

 

[cbbowlingmd]

Right. And Auburn plays in the...?

AV

Am I the only one still waiting on Tux's reply to this?

 

[thebjd]

I still disagree with the idea that this is a called give. Oregons qb's kept about as often as ours. No one claims they aren't reading it. We simply don't want him keeping it 10 times a game. Doesn't mean he isn't reading it, just means he's been told to be selective. I couldn't imagine any college team not allowing their qb to read it.

Agreed. I think he would read it every play and pick his spot to run or even pass depending on what he sees. The key is making the defense commit fully to the dive by being successful with that part of the play.

 

[Flipdaddy]

Butch Jones ran his zone read offense at his fist two stops and then at Tennessee. The offense worked great against lesser competition. Against SEC and other national powers, the offense has failed to generate any kind of serious running game.

Jones has adjusted his short route passing route tree and we are seeing more vertical routes being run and thrown, with some success. In fact, Justin Worley has turned into one of college football's best passers. It does not hurt that he has one of the more talented group of WRs in the nation.

WRs are the most explosive playmakers on the field and a smart coach is going to do what he can do to get the ball into their hands as often as possible. Thus, you need a good passing QB. That is the biggest prerequisite of QBs to play in this offense on this team.

All teams need to be able to run the football. It is an integral part of the game. In Butch's old version of his offensive scheme, his QB was as important in creating a ground game, as the RB. However, he did not have WRs half as talented as the group he has at Tennessee. He also did not face defenses with athletes as big and as fast as he has been facing in the SEC.

The Vols offensive line was much maligned a year ago, but the NFL vindicated them in the 2014 NFL Draft. The problems with the Vols run game lie more in the scheme itself, than in the the guys who played on the OL last season. This season the issues lie with the scheme and the talent on the OL.

This years OL is young, not huge, not particularly strong, and is without any true offensive tackles in the line up. Butch is playing two offensive guards at offensive tackle. Butch is partially culpable for the failure to recruit quality offensive tackles in his two recruiting classes. Derek Dooley is equally at fault for the failure to recruit OTs too. Butch came here believing that he could recruit tall, thinner, and mobile offensive linemen and play them at tackle in the SEC. He has learned that he has to change his faulty recruiting paradigm in order to put together a good OL in this league. He is no longer in the MAC or the Big East.

Butch is also seeing that he is having to change his run blocking in order to open holes for his RBs. We saw him use some lead blockers to open up holes against Oklahoma and it worked well. Using lead blockers, as he did is not truly part of his zone read scheme. However, it worked.

Shortsighted fans want to blame Worley for the run game woes for not keeping the ball and forcing the defensive ends from crashing. There is a reason why he dies not keep the ball. The coaches have likely instructed him to not keep the ball. They understand his value to the team's offensive success.

The zone read May work in smaller conferences and the read option may work at Auburn where they run the ball 70% if the time and more. However Tennessee is playing in the SEC against the predominant defensive linemen in the nation. If your offense throws a lot and you have a plethora if talented WRs as UT does, you need to be able deliver the ball to them accurately, something most mobile QBs can not do on a consistent basis.

Knowing that your team does not truly have the talent to run the zine read offense, why does a coach continue to do so? They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Maybe Butch is waking up and realizing that he can still run a spread offense with some changes to the run blocking. I sure hope he has had an epiphany. If not, we may become a better program due to the influx of talent to the program. However, how long does the continued recruiting success last without major victories and lots if them? I firmly believe that our future success depends on Butch Jones adapting his offensive scheme to his talent and to the defenses personnel of the SEC. A major part of that adapting is dumping the Zone Read run game.

I guess the people disagreeing with this love watching Hurd and Lane getting crammed behind the
LOS while Worley slowly removes his hands from their gut and trots off in the oppsite direction to fake everybody out.

I agree...set up in the I form type or double tights and run and throw. it was clear to see in the second half that we can actually run the ball. It just takes the right scheme. Cause folks...WORLEY IS NOT GOING TO KEEP THE BALL!. Do we really want our QB that is Sh!t hot right now running? HELL NO! Remember Ainge in the USCjr game? Not pretty

 

[Vol8188]

I agree that the occasional 10 yard gain is there for worley, but no more than maybe twice a game. Teams will gladly sacrifice 15 yds rushing with Worley per game if that means that they will continuously shut down our offensive tempo, running game, and put us behind the chains on 3rd down. It's a no brainer. If I'm DC I defend the dive every rushing play, even if worley has rushed for 30 yards in the game. Sure, there is an occasional 7 yard gain there every now and again, but the offense can't make a living doing it. It's too gimmicky.

That's not what's happening at all, and how is it a gimmick? Option football is know kid the oldest offenses out there. The backside DE is not making the play.

 

[Vol8188]

A lot on here mention the success of the zone read at Auburn, Oregon etc.. And many on here denigrate those that question why we are running this offense. So please tell me, who's the QB on our roster that brings that kind of running threat to the scheme? A QB that defenses HAVE to account for like they have to account for Mariota, Nick Marshall, etc.? Dobbs may be the closest to a running threat, but I'm not sure that QB is on campus yet.

So USCjr has a dual threat qb? What about the eagles?

 

[SaintLouisVol]

I guess the people disagreeing with this love watching Hurd and Lane getting crammed behind the
LOS while Worley slowly removes his hands from their gut and trots off in the oppsite direction to fake everybody out.

I agree...set up in the I form type or double tights and run and throw. it was clear to see in the second half that we can actually run the ball. It just takes the right scheme. Cause folks...WORLEY IS NOT GOING TO KEEP THE BALL!. Do we really want our QB that is Sh!t hot right now running? HELL NO! Remember Ainge in the USCjr game? Not pretty

So you throw out all of the years of planning and design by these coaches, all of spring practice and fall camp so you can install an offense during the open date week?

I am little concerned about how that might work out. It'd be almost as odd as trying to convert from a 4-3 to a 3-4 on defense without recruiting 3-4 personnel. Imagine that happening.

 

[Vol8188]

I guess the people disagreeing with this love watching Hurd and Lane getting crammed behind the
LOS while Worley slowly removes his hands from their gut and trots off in the oppsite direction to fake everybody out.

I agree...set up in the I form type or double tights and run and throw. it was clear to see in the second half that we can actually run the ball. It just takes the right scheme. Cause folks...WORLEY IS NOT GOING TO KEEP THE BALL!. Do we really want our QB that is Sh!t hot right now running? HELL NO! Remember Ainge in the USCjr game? Not pretty

Didn't Philly lead the NFL in rushing last season?

 

[Flipdaddy]

So you throw out all of the years of planning and design by these coaches, all of spring practice and fall camp so you can install an offense during the open date week?

I am little concerned about how that might work out. It'd be almost as odd as trying to convert from a 4-3 to a 3-4 on defense without recruiting 3-4 personnel. Imagine that happening.

No not entirely. I'm not sure but the success Hurd had running didn't come from the read option unless I
I'm mistaken. Setting up in the strong I or Hback tight formation wouldn't be a hard transition. Me...and I know I'm not anywhere close to a HC...If I'm running the read option, and It's getting STUFFED 95% of the time by Utah and Arky State?...I'm going to just start running the football and not trying to make a defense believe I'm going to run my qb. It's just not working and they are wasting several several plays a game. We don't have the QB for that.

 

[Vol8188]

No not entirely. I'm not sure but the success Hurd had running didn't come from the read option unless I
I'm mistaken. Setting up in the strong I or Hback tight formation wouldn't be a hard transition. Me...and I know I'm not anywhere close to a HC...If I'm running the read option, and It's getting STUFFED 95% of the time by Utah and Arky State?...I'm going to just start running the football and not trying to make a defense believe I'm going to run my qb. It's just not working and they are wasting several several plays a game. We don't have the QB for that.

Why transition at all? Offset I formation is already our base.

 

[coachjs]

No not entirely. I'm not sure but the success Hurd had running didn't come from the read option unless I
I'm mistaken. Setting up in the strong I or Hback tight formation wouldn't be a hard transition. Me...and I know I'm not anywhere close to a HC...If I'm running the read option, and It's getting STUFFED 95% of the time by Utah and Arky State?...I'm going to just start running the football and not trying to make a defense believe I'm going to run my qb. It's just not working and they are wasting several several plays a game. We don't have the QB for that.

I know for a fact that the long run in the beginning of the 4th was a read option play. Worley gave because Striker was slow playing the read, that took him out of the play without even having to block him (the whole idea of option). On this play alone we had a great play by a player, a bad play by a player, and an accidental good play by a player. The bad was our center did not get to his assignment of back side backer, the good play was Hurd seeing a crease and getting up field, and the accidental was our left tackle accidentally running into the back side backer that was missed by the center. All this created a positive play. If the left tackle doesn't run into the backer it's a 4-6 yard gain and no one thinks anything of it. The exciting thing is the players know where they are supposed to be, it is just going to take time for them to be able to execute at a high level. If the center gets to the back side backer the left tackle does his first job and might get up to the safety and then we are out the gates. It didn't happen, but it will at some point.

It is crazy to think about changing our offense in a couple of weeks. If we are running an I on that play we have to block Stricker, they have another man in the box due to a FB, and they will have more people at the point of attack. Why do you think the Military Academies run what they run? Because they do not have the players to compete, but we have fans that say we do not have the players on the line so lets to the opposite? That does not make any sense. We have good numbers on the front side of plays due to the fact we run option.

 

[3rdDown4What?]

I know for a fact that the long run in the beginning of the 4th was a read option play. Worley gave because Striker was slow playing the read, that took him out of the play without even having to block him (the whole idea of option). On this play alone we had a great play by a player, a bad play by a player, and an accidental good play by a player. The bad was our center did not get to his assignment of back side backer, the good play was Hurd seeing a crease and getting up field, and the accidental was our left tackle accidentally running into the back side backer that was missed by the center. All this created a positive play. If the left tackle doesn't run into the backer it's a 4-6 yard gain and no one thinks anything of it. The exciting thing is the players know where they are supposed to be, it is just going to take time for them to be able to execute at a high level. If the center gets to the back side backer the left tackle does his first job and might get up to the safety and then we are out the gates. It didn't happen, but it will at some point.

It is crazy to think about changing our offense in a couple of weeks. If we are running an I on that play we have to block Stricker, they have another man in the box due to a FB, and they will have more people at the point of attack. Why do you think the Military Academies run what they run? Because they do not have the players to compete, but we have fans that say we do not have the players on the line so lets to the opposite? That does not make any sense. We have good numbers on the front side of plays due to the fact we run option.

Wasn't the long run out of the king stack formation with Malone motioning around the back side of the QB and RB thought Malone's motion drew him out of position (counter read) Not sure though

 

[wilrob75]

That's not what's happening at all, and how is it a gimmick? Option football is know kid the oldest offenses out there. The backside DE is not making the play.

It's gimmicky if there is no consistent threat of a qb run to keep the entire defense honest, because the DE isn't the only one that reads the play. The entire defense knows what to key on, other DLs, LBs, and DBs included. You're completely taking away the element of deception, which is critical to most offenses...Why would a hitter sit on a curve when he knows he's getting a fastball 95% of the time?

I can see this scheme being more successful if we had studs at RB and the OL which could help compensate for the lost mobility at quarterback. But we don't have it now.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

More dominant offensive linemen and a quicker QB would make a lot of these arguments go away.

 

[coachjs]

Wasn't the long run out of the king stack formation with Malone motioning around the back side of the QB and RB thought Malone's motion drew him out of position (counter read) Not sure though

The one I was referencing was the beginning of the 4th that led to the pick-6. Hurd was offset right and we did motion a H-back from the right to the left wing. I'm not sure about the first long run, haven't went back and looked at that one. I do not believe Oklahoma adjusted to the motion on the one I'm talking about.

 

[coachjs]

It's gimmicky if there is no consistent threat of a qb run to keep the entire defense honest, because the DE isn't the only one that reads the play. The entire defense knows what to key on, other DLs, LBs, and DBs included. You're completely taking away the element of deception, which is critical to most offenses...Why would a hitter sit on a curve when he knows he's getting a fastball 95% of the time?

I can see this scheme being more successful if we had studs at RB and the OL which could help compensate for the lost mobility at quarterback. But we don't have it now.

I would not say option football is a gimmick. When I think of gimmick football I think of that HS coach in the midwest who was running a form of punt formation every play so his linemen could go down field.That's a gimmick, option is leveling the playing field for the offense. Now the QB is an option and therefore the defense does not outnumber the offense. We give on the option 95% of the time because that is what the read is saying to do. You leave a man unblocked and read him and in the case of the Oklahoma game they had Worley accounted for and that is a good thing for us. The key is for the o-line to win the one-on-one battles.
Yes, if we had an athlete at QB maybe he pulls when the end just slides down or slow plays and makes a play due to his athleticism. With Worley he has a clear cut read and he makes it. Either way we now have numbers on the play side and are players doing their job away from making a big play.
As far as deception, I do not know how option is not deceptive. You have basically 3 options on every play, RB run one direction, QB run the other direction, or pass. That seems to be pretty deceptive to me.

 

[Tux]

We do not run the read option. The only option the QB has is to read and decide to hand off or keep.

 

[Vol8188]

We do not run the read option. The only option the QB has is to read and decide to hand off or keep.

That sounds like an option to me. But you forgot that he can also throw the bubble or out too.