Do we win a natty in football...

#127
#127
sjt18 said:
I actually like him. I think he's advanced the program. I'm not one to make "absolute" statements about what will or won't happen unless I completely control it.

But I don't think Barnes will win a NC. I don't know if his style of play hurts his recruiting or if his recruiting dictates his style of play. However he seems to focus so heavily on defense that the O is too inconsistent to make the kind of run you need to win the NC. Some of the guys even seem to regress playing for him like James and Vescovi.

Barnes seems to be a straight up guy and good coach. But I don't really see an indication that he's building teams that can make those runs. Possible. But very unlikely IMO.
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Fair take and I understand it. I do wonder if some things are starting to change and if we will see a breakthrough. I could also see the timer run out due to age. I guess I still see hope and the ATL Braves scenario. I believe you do not see hope based on your comments.
 
#128
#128
sjt18 said:
I actually like him. I think he's advanced the program. I'm not one to make "absolute" statements about what will or won't happen unless I completely control it.

But I don't think Barnes will win a NC. I don't know if his style of play hurts his recruiting or if his recruiting dictates his style of play. However he seems to focus so heavily on defense that the O is too inconsistent to make the kind of run you need to win the NC. Some of the guys even seem to regress playing for him like James and Vescovi.

Barnes seems to be a straight up guy and good coach. But I don't really see an indication that he's building teams that can make those runs. Possible. But very unlikely IMO.
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Everything that I hear about Barnes that is negative is that he is almost too hard on the players in practices and wears them out. This helps explains some of those nights were the team comes out flat and looks exhausted from tip-off. Coaches have a way of changing. Interestingly, I don't think Barnes faults are based on not coaching enough or not being a good coach but rather trying to hard at times.

That being said, Barnes is the best coach we have had in Men's Bball and he doesn't need to go anywhere. Here is a list of SEC teams that have National Titles for perspective:

Kentucky - 8 (1948, 1949, 1951, 1958, 1978, 1996, 1998, 2012)
Florida - 2 (2006, 2007)
Arkansas - 1 (1994)

Men's Basketball is just not a sport the SEC excels at. This was why I was a fan of bringing in Kansas to go with Missouri or if we can land UNC (that would be great). We just don't have the history (as a conference) in the sport and Tennessee is a pretty mediocre Basketball program that has been propped up by Barnes (and Pearl before him).

Winning a National Title in Men's Basketball is probably a tall order for any of our coaches.
 
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#130
#130
TAF said:
I think the Lizards down south had a Football & Basketball Natty-fest one year...

But has ANYONE held the Triple Crown??!!
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Closest ones I could find:
1967-68, Southern California, football; 1968 Southern California baseball, 1967-68 UCLA basketball
Same arrangement in 1972-73.
 
#131
#131
spyfish007 said:
Fair take and I understand it. I do wonder if some things are starting to change and if we will see a breakthrough. I could also see the timer run out due to age. I guess I still see hope and the ATL Braves scenario. I believe you do not see hope based on your comments.
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Always some hope. Not as much as I wish I could have
 
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#133
#133
sjt18 said:
I actually like him. I think he's advanced the program. I'm not one to make "absolute" statements about what will or won't happen unless I completely control it.

But I don't think Barnes will win a NC. I don't know if his style of play hurts his recruiting or if his recruiting dictates his style of play. However he seems to focus so heavily on defense that the O is too inconsistent to make the kind of run you need to win the NC. Some of the guys even seem to regress playing for him like James and Vescovi.

Barnes seems to be a straight up guy and good coach. But I don't really see an indication that he's building teams that can make those runs. Possible. But very unlikely IMO.
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You must not pay attention to the basketball team as much. Recruiting has been great
 
#135
#135
BernardKingGOAT said:
Louisville and Indiana have fallen significantly. Neither have been a threat for awhile now.
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Do to not being able to replace their coach with sane level which proves my point. After Knight they fell apart. It wasn’t luck. It was Knight.
 
#137
#137
sjt18 said:
Disagree unless there's a coaching change... and I don't dislike Barnes. It just seems that the way he builds teams produces success like the Atlanta Braves of the 80's and 90's. Win a high percentage but with flaws that assure they cannot make a run. I would definitely love to be wrong. I think Barnes has built a great foundation that someone could come in and take to the next level with a slightly different philosophy.

IMHO, Heupel is precisely the kind of coach that can win championships in this new reality. For decades, I believe it was never about getting support and all about getting a good coach. I think the question now lies with how much support can be sustained.
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I love the positive thinking but serious question. What have you seen that makes you think we can beat UGA? Honestly. They have made us look silly since Heupel has been here. Even with Hooker we couldn’t do much of anything. Now consider Sark is building a monster at TX and they are in the SEC now.

I think Heupel is an excellent coach. I personally think he is better than Fulmer. But I daisy dojt see him getting us a national championship unless two things happen. One, he has to continue to upgrade the staff. Martinez sucks and Banks isn’t a good safeties coach. Our secondary has been our Achilles heel ever since he came here. It seems like he has blood loyalty to Martinez for some reason.

And lastly and perhaps more importantly, the recruiting is gonna have to get better. While I think he does a really good job recruiting, finishing 5th or 6th in the SEC and 10-13th nationally isn’t going to cut it.
 
#138
#138
BigOrangeTrain said:
I love the positive thinking but serious question. What have you seen that makes you think we can beat UGA? Honestly. They have made us look silly since Heupel has been here. Even with Hooker we couldn’t do much of anything. Now consider Sark is building a monster at TX and they are in the SEC now.

I think Heupel is an excellent coach. I personally think he is better than Fulmer. But I daisy dojt see him getting us a national championship unless two things happen. One, he has to continue to upgrade the staff. Martinez sucks and Banks isn’t a good safeties coach. Our secondary has been our Achilles heel ever since he came here. It seems like he has blood loyalty to Martinez for some reason.

And lastly and perhaps more importantly, the recruiting is gonna have to get better. While I think he does a really good job recruiting, finishing 5th or 6th in the SEC and 10-13th nationally isn’t going to cut it.
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Though many of your points are well taken, Banks is not a coach of Safeties. He is the DC.
 
#139
#139
BernardKingGOAT said:
No s**t
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Maybe cause it’s 4am but I thought your point was winning it all in college basketball was luck but you agreeing with me on Knight states it isn’t all luck. I do agree some teams get hot during the tourney and there is some luck involved like the Christian Laitner shot but do you agree that there have been a handful of coaches that are just elite and better than the rest?

I personally think Hurley retires at UConn and wins 2 or 3 more. He is the modern day Knight or Coach K.
 
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#140
#140
My guess on what major sport you win your next NC is Football then Baseball, and lastly Basketball.

Football - most likely bc I think you guys have a good chance to make the Playoff over the next few years and with Nico and the potential to get better in the Portal it gives more of a chance than many believe in my opinion. I expect that the offense will rival any before Nico leaves.

Baseball - You guys are a powerhouse so it’s certainly possible that this is the next. But baseball is very unpredictable so I’m saying 2nd.

Basketball - I seriously doubt it. Unless you guys find another gem like DK in the portal I don’t see it happening. I do think you’ll be good enough to keep playing in March, but not good enough to overcome the talent of others in the Tournament.
 
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#141
#141
BigOrangeTrain said:
I love the positive thinking but serious question. What have you seen that makes you think we can beat UGA? Honestly. They have made us look silly since Heupel has been here. Even with Hooker we couldn’t do much of anything. Now consider Sark is building a monster at TX and they are in the SEC now.
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Time, portal, coaching talent, and the new format. Opening up the playoff like I mentioned earlier will probably mean that we seldom get the "best" team as NC. The "best" team will still have to make a run of games against the best other 11 teams after getting out of a conference like the SEC is going to be. That kind of consistency compounds the probabilities of losing.

UT's baseball team a couple of years ago was among the best in NCAA history. ND got hot enough... and was just the wrong match up for them. I think you'll see something similar in football. I don't think we'll see the kind of one or two team dominance we've seen. I also think that contributed to Saban's decision to quit.

I think who gets "hot" at the right time will mean more going forward... who has the key injury. Factors like that. I think that will spread the NC out more.

Sark had a good season last year. He was pretty mediocre the first couple of years in a conference nowhere near as talented or competitive as the SEC. Talent is not and has not been the problem at least according to the rankings. Texas' composite ranking last year was 6th. OU was 9th. TCU was 19th. The rest of the Big 12 was 40th or worse. ONLY Vandy ranked outside the top 32 from the SEC.

Four of the 14 B12 teams were ranked lower than Vandy. So the short answer is that he has not been "great" having a significant talent advantage. He won't have that any more.. I'm not convinced he's a great coach. The SEC has the best assembly of coaches now IMO that have EVER been in one conference.

I'm not predicting utter failure. I just think they'll be another team in the top half of the conference.
BigOrangeTrain said:
I think Heupel is an excellent coach. I personally think he is better than Fulmer. But I daisy dojt see him getting us a national championship unless two things happen. One, he has to continue to upgrade the staff. Martinez sucks and Banks isn’t a good safeties coach. Our secondary has been our Achilles heel ever since he came here. It seems like he has blood loyalty to Martinez for some reason.
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I've been critical of Banks. Martinez has been an easy scapegoat for things not in his control. That said, it seems that they were allowed to kind of clean house after last season. Heupel is giving them a chance to reset with guys they believe in... and guys who appear to have a good bit more talent than the ones they had before.

I think the D has to play better also. Not just statistically good but with a lot more consistency than what we've seen so far. Maybe that means a staff change. Maybe the talent/player changes will be the difference.
BigOrangeTrain said:
And lastly and perhaps more importantly, the recruiting is gonna have to get better. While I think he does a really good job recruiting, finishing 5th or 6th in the SEC and 10-13th nationally isn’t going to cut it.
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Sure it can. We've had that conversation before but there are plenty of good players who wear a 3* label. You have to find them and develop them.

The SEC is a log jam. It will probably get even tighter post-Saban. IMO conference consolidation will start to make football recruiting look like baseball recruiting. Players are going to want to be in the SEC or Big 10 no matter where they're from. Many will "prove" themselves playing for a BYU, Arizona, or TTU... then put themselves on the market.

I actually don't like "parity". I think it ruined the NFL. But I think you're going to see a lot more talent parity in the SEC over the next few years. Guys who are starter talent are going to look for starting opportunities. It makes the quality and talent of the coaches even more important that it is.

Sorry to go a little long. I've been doing better. I just thought your question deserved a good, reasoned answer.

PS- if I didn't actually think (not feel) that UT would win it then I would say so. I'm not afraid of posting unpopular views like I did with JG, Jones, and others... even Banks in the last few years.
 
#142
#142
DirtyDawg said:
My guess on what major sport you win your next NC is Football then Baseball, and lastly Basketball.

Football - most likely bc I think you guys have a good chance to make the Playoff over the next few years and with Nico and the potential to get better in the Portal it gives more of a chance than many believe in my opinion. I expect that the offense will rival any before Nico leaves.

Baseball - You guys are a powerhouse so it’s certainly possible that this is the next. But baseball is very unpredictable so I’m saying 2nd.

Basketball - I seriously doubt it. Unless you guys find another gem like DK in the portal I don’t see it happening. I do think you’ll be good enough to keep playing in March, but not good enough to overcome the talent of others in the Tournament.
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The easiest way to ensure your team is a consistent championship contender is by landing elite, top 5 recruiting classes consistently. Baseball is the only team doing that right now. Until that changes in the other 2 sports, baseball is the only team I can realistically see winning a(nother) championship.
 
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#145
#145
JustinVol said:
We won’t see another natty win here, in any of them really.
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Rachel Dratch Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
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#146
#146
I think baseball will win another before basketball and football.

Hot take, but I think baseball winning took a lot of pressure off the other sports. It's still a lot, but many less dark clouds surrounding Knoxville. That may work best for Barnes and basketball as he has several teams good enough to win it all. Football may be awhile as that is a far bigger mountain to climb
 
#147
#147
OrangeCola said:
I think baseball will win another before basketball and football.

Hot take, but I think baseball winning took a lot of pressure off the other sports. It's still a lot, but many less dark clouds surrounding Knoxville. That may work best for Barnes and basketball as he has several teams good enough to win it all. Football may be awhile as that is a far bigger mountain to climb
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I’ll say this, if you have an elite QB, it helps a lot in football. UT’s roster might not be elite, but it’s pretty darn good. So if Tennessee matches up with the true elite recruiters in the sport like Georgia, Bama or Ohio State in the semifinals, it probably won’t be enough. But you’ve got a shot to beat everyone else.

And I agree. I think winning the championship in one of the top 3 sports is just a huge burden lifted off of an Athletic Department that, frankly, seemed like they didn’t care about winning at a high level for most of the last 2 decades. Since Danny White took over, they have done a phenomenal job and that is now undeniable by everyone in the SEC with the baseball championship.
 
#148
#148
BigOrangeTrain said:
I love the positive thinking but serious question. What have you seen that makes you think we can beat UGA? Honestly. They have made us look silly since Heupel has been here. Even with Hooker we couldn’t do much of anything. Now consider Sark is building a monster at TX and they are in the SEC now.

I think Heupel is an excellent coach. I personally think he is better than Fulmer. But I daisy dojt see him getting us a national championship unless two things happen. One, he has to continue to upgrade the staff. Martinez sucks and Banks isn’t a good safeties coach. Our secondary has been our Achilles heel ever since he came here. It seems like he has blood loyalty to Martinez for some reason.

And lastly and perhaps more importantly, the recruiting is gonna have to get better. While I think he does a really good job recruiting, finishing 5th or 6th in the SEC and 10-13th nationally isn’t going to cut it.
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I mean, I think eventually UGA is just going to play a bad game against us. Might be this year. Might be 3 years from now. Football is a sport where the better team wins 90% of the time, but the 10% games do happen from time to time. A terrible, 4 win South Carolina team went into Athens and beat UGA because for some reason, Jake Fromm decided to throw 4 interceptions. Alabama beat us for 15 years straight (just typing that makes me want to puke), but mixed between the embarrassing azz whoopings were a few games where Bama played bad, Tennessee had a legitimate shot to win and then finally did in 2022.

And I’m sorry, but I am not scared of Texas until they prove it to me. Not only are they a team that consistently underperforms relative to talent, they are not an elite defensive team like Bama or UGA. If Tennessee gets into a shoot out vs them, I’m feeling good, especially if it’s in Neyland. However, I do think they will be very good in 2024 and I’m glad we drew OU instead.
 
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