Do you trust the federal government?

[jvol1]

The FDA is why drugs in the US are substantially higher than the same drug in other other countries. Someone has to pay the registration costs.

I think this has more to do with how messed up our private insurance system is than the fda. Look into pharma bro Shkreli for a reference on this.

 

[GroverCleveland]

I think this has more to do with how messed up our private insurance system is than the fda. Look into pharma bro Shkreli for a reference on this.

I'll not argue the health insurance business is a mess, but what in the world does private insurance have to do with registration costs imposed by Federal regulation? Shkreli was able to do what he did specifically because of the law!

I've read some of your posts in this thread and you seem to have little experience in dealing with government bureaucracies and their regulations. Geez, go and look at the size of the Federal Registry every year. For that matter, buy some land and then deal with EPA regulations.

 

[turbovol]

For the first time in history, Medicare has the ability to directly negotiate the prices of covered prescription drugs due to President Biden's historic prescription drug law, the Inflation Reduction Act.Jun 30, 2023

This is a very big deal and major achievement by Biden. Dems have been trying to get this done for years. Republicans--in the pocket of Big Pharm--opposed this.

Hospitals will ridiculously price-gouge all patients that have decent/good health insurance. Why the insurance companies let hospitals/doctors charge them outrageous prices--4-5 times more than in Europe, for example--I don't know.

 

[turbovol]

I'll not argue the health insurance business is a mess, but what in the world does private insurance have to do with registration costs imposed by Federal regulation? Shkreli was able to do what he did specifically because of the law!

I've read some of your posts in this thread and you seem to have little experience in dealing with government bureaucracies and their regulations. Geez, go and look at the size of the Federal Registry every year. For that matter, buy some land and then deal with EPA regulations.

People buy land all the time and have no contact with the EPA.

 

[LouderVol]

For the first time in history, Medicare has the ability to directly negotiate the prices of covered prescription drugs due to President Biden's historic prescription drug law, the Inflation Reduction Act.Jun 30, 2023

This is a very big deal and major achievement by Biden. Dems have been trying to get this done for years. Republicans--in the pocket of Big Pharm--opposed this.

Hospitals will ridiculously price-gouge all patients that have decent/good health insurance. Why the insurance companies let hospitals/doctors charge them outrageous prices--4-5 times more than in Europe, for example--I don't know.

You seem to be splitting hairs pretty fine to make this point. Trump had a cap of insulin costs to the end user that Biden let run out. Your distinction here is that now the actual price will be reduced, and not just the end cost.

President Trump Announces Lower Out of Pocket Insulin Costs for Medicare’s Seniors | CMS

all those European health systems lose money. they HAVE to be subsidized by their governments to stay a float. All you are doing is taking the end users payments towards insurance premiums and shifting them into taxes. and by the by most people can deduct insurance premiums from their taxable income, so removing insurance payments would doubly increase their owed taxes.

 

[GroverCleveland]

People buy land all the time and have no contact with the EPA.

As long as they plan to do nothing with it OR have to deal with the legacy of EPA decisions already made on the land.

 

[jvol1]

As long as they plan to do nothing with it OR have to deal with the legacy of EPA decisions already made on the land.

Most people wont have to deal with this. Land developers may have to deal with it in some way, but you'd probably want to know if your property was a toxic waste dump before you built a house or houses on it anyway. The people who are buying from you would also like to have that assurance as well. Epa seems to be adding value here, though its undoubtedly a hassle in many instances and prevents some developments from getting built much to the frustration of developers.

 

[jvol1]

I'll not argue the health insurance business is a mess, but what in the world does private insurance have to do with registration costs imposed by Federal regulation? Shkreli was able to do what he did specifically because of the law!

I've read some of your posts in this thread and you seem to have little experience in dealing with government bureaucracies and their regulations. Geez, go and look at the size of the Federal Registry every year. For that matter, buy some land and then deal with EPA regulations.

Registration costs dont seem to have anything to do with Shkreli. He cornered the market and raised prices independently.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Registration costs dont seem to have anything to do with Shkreli. He cornered the market and raised prices independently.

Agreed. Not sure why he was even brought into the conversation.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Most people wont have to deal with this. Land developers may have to deal with it in some way, but you'd probably want to know if your property was a toxic waste dump before you built a house or houses on it anyway. The people who are buying from you would also like to have that assurance as well. Epa seems to be adding value here, though its undoubtedly a hassle in many instances and prevents some developments from getting built much to the frustration of developers.

You seem to have little experience with EPA.

 

[GroverCleveland]

You seem to be splitting hairs pretty fine to make this point. Trump had a cap of insulin costs to the end user that Biden let run out. Your distinction here is that now the actual price will be reduced, and not just the end cost.

President Trump Announces Lower Out of Pocket Insulin Costs for Medicare’s Seniors | CMS

all those European health systems lose money. they HAVE to be subsidized by their governments to stay a float. All you are doing is taking the end users payments towards insurance premiums and shifting them into taxes. and by the by most people can deduct insurance premiums from their taxable income, so removing insurance payments would doubly increase their owed taxes.

The only way the health care system is going to be straightened out is to put the payment responsibility in the hands of the consumer. It is why the most affordable surgical procedures in America are plastic surgeons; they are not covered by insurance.

My wife went in for a procedure last week for two hours total time and the bill was $10,600. 90% covered by "insurance."

Government run health care systems lead to messes like Canada has. There are medical tourism companies in Canada that specialize in getting Canadians who can afford it into the United States. I have never heard of one going the other way, but maybe someone can enlighten me.

 

[LouderVol]

Most people wont have to deal with this. Land developers may have to deal with it in some way, but you'd probably want to know if your property was a toxic waste dump before you built a house or houses on it anyway. The people who are buying from you would also like to have that assurance as well. Epa seems to be adding value here, though its undoubtedly a hassle in many instances and prevents some developments from getting built much to the frustration of developers.

the EPA has nothing to do with tracking the past land use outside of some spills after the fact (maybe, hog would know more). East Palestine type, they aren't going to tell you there was a gas station or laundry mat there.

You have to get a surveyor, private company, to do a Schedule 1 Site review to find out the history, and then if necessary you go to a Schedule 2 where they will do testing. The EPA records can be referenced, but not relied on for either.

again you are extremely naive on what the federal government actually does. A lot of your positive assumptions for the federal government are actually services provided by private companies, with standards established by the industries.

 

[hog88]

the EPA has nothing to do with tracking the past land use outside of some spills after the fact (maybe, hog would know more). East Palestine type, they aren't going to tell you there was a gas station or laundry mat there.

You have to get a surveyor, private company, to do a Schedule 1 Site review to find out the history, and then if necessary you go to a Schedule 2 where they will do testing. The EPA records can be referenced, but not relied on for either.

again you are extremely naive on what the federal government actually does. A lot of your positive assumptions for the federal government are actually services provided by private companies, with standards established by the industries.

We do a lot of phase 1s and I don’t think we’ve ever referenced the federal EPA.

 

[GroverCleveland]

We do a lot of phase 1s and I don’t think we’ve ever referenced the federal EPA.

To be clear, I was referencing things like EPA declaring the middle of one's field a wetland.

Or declaring one's property the last refuge of the ring-tailed horned cross-eyed toad, therefore inviolate.

 

[jvol1]

the EPA has nothing to do with tracking the past land use outside of some spills after the fact (maybe, hog would know more). East Palestine type, they aren't going to tell you there was a gas station or laundry mat there.

You have to get a surveyor, private company, to do a Schedule 1 Site review to find out the history, and then if necessary you go to a Schedule 2 where they will do testing. The EPA records can be referenced, but not relied on for either.

again you are extremely naive on what the federal government actually does. A lot of your positive assumptions for the federal government are actually services provided by private companies, with standards established by the industries.

My basic point was that the epa isn't involved much in land purchases. My only knowledge of their involvement is the brownfield sites at the foot of lookout mtn -- which I remember the construction sites having a warning do not breath sign posted as I rode my bike past them as well as a high cost to clean up for redevelopment. Thanks for explainion of real estate development in regards to surveying, etc.

 

[jvol1]

To be clear, I was referencing things like EPA declaring the middle of one's field a wetland.

Or declaring one's property the last refuge of the ring-tailed horned cross-eyed toad, therefore inviolate.

This stuff gets the headlines because its controversial, but it pretty much never comes up in practice.

 

[GroverCleveland]

This stuff gets the headlines because its controversial, but it pretty much never comes up in practice.

You farm? Your family farm? Own land with a bunch of neighbors who are farmers?

We did. Have immediate and extended family who are heavy into farming. Most of my high school classmates either farm or own land that is farmed. More than one has had issues with the EPA.

The wetland declaration happened to one of my friends and a high school classmate. Spent a pile of money arguing with the EPA over a piece of land that had been farmed for decades in the middle of field that suddenly was determined by the EPA to be a wetlands because during a rainy spell, ducks were seen there. FTR, her case was not a headline. There are a lot those.

Yeah. Easy to say it never comes up in practice until you're the one hiring lawyers to fight the Federal government.

 

[hog88]

You farm? Your family farm? Own land with a bunch of neighbors who are farmers?

We did. Have immediate and extended family who are heavy into farming. Most of my high school classmates either farm or own land that is farmed. More than one has had issues with the EPA.

The wetland declaration happened to one of my friends and a high school classmate. Spent a pile of money arguing with the EPA over a piece of land that had been farmed for decades in the middle of field that suddenly was determined by the EPA to be a wetlands because during a rainy spell, ducks were seen there. FTR, her case was not a headline. There are a lot those.

Yeah. Easy to say it never comes up in practice until you're the one hiring lawyers to fight the Federal government.

Had a similar problem, filled in a nasty old pond that had turned into a mud pit and boom. The letters and threats began.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Had a similar problem, filled in a nasty old pond that had turned into a mud pit and boom. The letters and threats began.

Oh, yes. Ponds can a special source of pain when dealing with EPA. Friends have had problems with that.

 

[hog88]

Oh, yes. Ponds can a special source of pain when dealing with EPA. Friends have had problems with that.

Dad settled with them (state not federal) on expanding another pond on the farm so it wasn't that big of a deal. It's just infuriating that they made such a big deal about a mosquito breading ground nothing else lived in.

Then there was the time the state came out and tried to fine us for spreading manure on top of snow.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Dad settled with them (state not federal) on expanding another pond on the farm so it wasn't that big of a deal. It's just infuriating that they made such a big deal about a mosquito breading ground nothing else lived in.

Then there was the time the state came out and tried to fine us for spreading manure on top of snow.

When I was a young kid, we're eating lunch and Dad told me after lunch, he wanted me to hook up to the turd buster and run it over one of the pastures near the house.

He said I got real quiet and after a few minutes asked "Does that thing ever stop up?"

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

I trust the Government like I trust the mob to be consistant with their modes of criminal enterprise, and fairly unimaginative in rehashing the same strategies. New tech same plays....

 

[Godfatha]

For the first time in history, Medicare has the ability to directly negotiate the prices of covered prescription drugs due to President Biden's historic prescription drug law, the Inflation Reduction Act.Jun 30, 2023

This is a very big deal and major achievement by Biden. Dems have been trying to get this done for years. Republicans--in the pocket of Big Pharm--opposed this.

Hospitals will ridiculously price-gouge all patients that have decent/good health insurance. Why the insurance companies let hospitals/doctors charge them outrageous prices--4-5 times more than in Europe, for example--I don't know.

Oh, so you're against Big Pharm now? You were all in favor of it when it comes to mandatory vaccines that made big Pharm come out big winners.

 

[LouderVol]

My basic point was that the epa isn't involved much in land purchases. My only knowledge of their involvement is the brownfield sites at the foot of lookout mtn -- which I remember the construction sites having a warning do not breath sign posted as I rode my bike past them as well as a high cost to clean up for redevelopment. Thanks for explainion of real estate development in regards to surveying, etc.

I still don't think they actively go and identify brownfields, they certainly don't help clean it up. They may set the regulations for the actual clean up, I haven't dealt with that side of things. again hog would know more.

They may have a guy on site to monitor, but he is probably as useful as any of the union foremen who get to stand around a jobsite.

 

[hog88]

I still don't think they actively go and identify brownfields, they certainly don't help clean it up. They may set the regulations for the actual clean up, I haven't dealt with that side of things. again hog would know more.

They may have a guy on site to monitor, but he is probably as useful as any of the union foremen who get to stand around a jobsite.

Never worked a brownfield project but know enough about them to say they are almost exclusively handled at the state level. Now depending on circumstances the cleanup may have some federal funding and if that's the case it takes a lot of dead trees to complete the reporting and paperwork.

The federal epa is basically a money changer organization that actively looks for ways to be a hinderance and general PITA.