Do you trust the federal government?

Do you trust the federal government?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 4.3%

  • No

    Votes: 112 95.7%
  • Total voters
    117
#477
#477
clarksvol00 said:
Funny. The young naive liberals were the ones who didn't trust the government's WMD claims 20 years ago.

I mentioned this the other day, we've got people of all stripes here (most seem to be middle-age or older conservatives), none of whom admit to supporting the Iraq war and w. I don't remember it being insanely unpopular when it happened. In fact, w. and the war (including iraq) had a lot of support at the time.
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The anti war left is one of many things that died under the Obama administration
 
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#481
#481
hog88 said:
Yes Luther there are a lot of people like you that have trouble reading the English language. Even supreme court justices.

BTW, this latest ruling was on procedure and not the actual merits of the case so ANOTHER poor example by Luther.
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I’m not sure he could crack an egg on Easter Sunday.
 
#482
#482
Sea Ray said:
I admit to supporting it. My bad for trusting gov't
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Were you a naive young liberal at the time? I'm curious about how some of the other posters identified themselves at the time, but like I said they probably won't admit to it... or outright lie.
 
#483
#483
clarksvol00 said:
Apparently the legions who supported the Iraq war died with them. Thoughts on the book ban I mentioned to you this morning?
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Not really. Seems they used AI and it identified some books that probably shouldn’t be “banned”. Depending on the age group (pre k, elementary, middle, high school) and the exact content of the books (I’ve never read Friday Night Lights, but could see it having some varsity blues like scenes), it may have been the or wrong decision.

But I didn’t find anything particularly interesting about it. To me it makes sense to use AI for the initial search and then just have humans go back over the list AI flags to verify
 
#484
#484
Vol8188 said:
Not really. Seems they used AI and it identified some books that probably shouldn’t be “banned”. Depending on the age group (pre k, elementary, middle, high school) and the exact content of the books (I’ve never read Friday Night Lights, but could see it having some varsity blues like scenes), it may have been the or wrong decision.

But I didn’t find anything particularly interesting about it. To me it makes sense to use AI for the initial search and then just have humans go back over the list AI flags to verify
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To me it seems like the unintended consequences of what was a reactionary and ill-thought out decision by the state.
 
#485
#485
jvol1 said:
So let's take zoning regulations for instance. They tend to protect purchasers of homes by controlling what can be built in the neighborhood and help long term planning. It's nice for a person to know that some huge company cant just build a factory in their neighborhood and destroy its character. That's a big value to homebuyers. What are the actual expenses involved with zoning compliance? In my experience, all that's required is to check with assessor to verify the property is residential (r1), and it doesnt really have any cost associated with it. If property needs to be rezoned that would be different. Similarly, there's cost associated with complying with safety regs for your employees. If the regs reduce injuries and the associated liability, then that would create value for the employer.
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you deal with the simplest zoning organization I have ever even heard of. I have been working in Architecture for 11 years now almost. worked across most of the SE and except for Federal projects or projects in BF I have dealt with this. and what you are describing only protects from what gets built. Any value will be more driven by occupants, upkeep, and general use. Often those zoning regs lock people in place, so less money comes into the area, things deteriorate, and the neighborhoods get worse.

Here in Atlanta area you have to pull several zoning permits before you can do anything. each one comes with a fee. Traffic studies, sewer capacity, storm water is a HUGE cost down here, typically some type of street improvement requirements, or lighting. And before you say well those are improvements, they aren't, they are maintenance items on public property the city itself doesn't do despite charging you fees associated with that maintenance. and then there is probably some neighborhood or PUD (planned unit development), or several layers of approvals you have to get like the CAP (Central Atlanta Progress, we called the Center of Anti Progress), DRC (design review committees) and/or historic neighborhood. All of which can, and often do, give completely contradictory requirements, and some that are against the building code. and there is no code there, so they can make up whatever requirements they want, and the only way to go around them is to try and get the mayor involved, good luck. you may only be dealing with the backside of things, but any city will have most of these things, the contractor/builder probably handles a bunch of these you don't know about and bake it into their costs. the water/sewer/storm fees are separate from your hook up fees btw. I would say they generally devalue the property value to keep things as they are without realizing they are creating the death spiral that kills neighborhoods.

I have had one client lose their home because of a zoning change. We went through got the permits and they started working on an expansion. during that time the local zoning changed the setbacks, so that the original house was in the setback. The original house would have been grandfathered in, but because we were actively doing work at the time of the change, they no longer qualified for grandfathering, because new construction had to be compliant. They had to tear down the work they were doing, then apply for an exception to fix their house to the original condition because it exceeded the 10% maintenance limit, it was denied, and about a year later the house was condemned for non-compliance.

I have had several experiences with zoning boards who refused street access to various projects, which is generally required for egressing, and had to abandon them. or other cases of zoning moving exits around to the point where we couldn't get doors close enough to allow proper egress. Often they will require building materials or finishes that aren't building code compliant, usually its a smoke issue.

^Paying all of those fees, doing all of those studies, going to public meetings and dealing with all that extra asinine crap costs TONS of money, and bring no value. its all so you can get a check mark, and take that to the next layer of officials, who then might have some value adding features. but 90% of zoning doesn't bring any direct or indirect value, and is instead are just Karen's the city over getting together to tell other people what they can and cant do on their own property.
 
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#486
#486
clarksvol00 said:
To me it seems like the unintended consequences of what was a reactionary and ill-thought out decision by the state.
Click to expand...

I’m not impressed. The author I thought came off like a loser calling it a “ban”, comparing it to “nazi Germany”, and proclaiming it was really because his book addresses racism and that no one wants to talk about racism (despite the fact that other than one district in Iowa, no one else is banning his book to my knowledge).

Overall is seems like nothing to me. Should the board have humans review anything AI flags? Yes. Do I think that’s a major story or of vital importance? Not even a little.
 
#487
#487
Vol8188 said:
I’m not impressed. The author I thought came off like a loser calling it a “ban”, comparing it to “nazi Germany”, and proclaiming it was really because his book addresses racism and that no one wants to talk about racism (despite the fact that other than one district in Iowa, no one else is banning his book to my knowledge).

Overall is seems like nothing to me. Should the board have humans review anything AI flags? Yes. Do I think that’s a major story or of vital importance? Not even a little.
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If you're looking for a response, I'll refer you to my previous statement.
 
#488
#488
LouderVol said:
you deal with the simplest zoning organization I have ever even heard of. I have been working in Architecture for 11 years now almost. worked across most of the SE and except for Federal projects or projects in BF I have dealt with this. and what you are describing only protects from what gets built. Any value will be more driven by occupants, upkeep, and general use. Often those zoning regs lock people in place, so less money comes into the area, things deteriorate, and the neighborhoods get worse.

Here in Atlanta area you have to pull several zoning permits before you can do anything. each one comes with a fee. Traffic studies, sewer capacity, storm water is a HUGE cost down here, typically some type of street improvement requirements, or lighting. And before you say well those are improvements, they aren't, they are maintenance items on public property the city itself doesn't do despite charging you fees associated with that maintenance. and then there is probably some neighborhood or PUD (planned unit development), or several layers of approvals you have to get like the CAP (Central Atlanta Progress, we called the Center of Anti Progress), DRC (design review committees) and/or historic neighborhood. All of which can, and often do, give completely contradictory requirements, and some that are against the building code. and there is no code there, so they can make up whatever requirements they want, and the only way to go around them is to try and get the mayor involved, good luck. you may only be dealing with the backside of things, but any city will have most of these things, the contractor/builder probably handles a bunch of these you don't know about and bake it into their costs. the water/sewer/storm fees are separate from your hook up fees btw. I would say they generally devalue the property value to keep things as they are without realizing they are creating the death spiral that kills neighborhoods.

I have had one client lose their home because of a zoning change. We went through got the permits and they started working on an expansion. during that time the local zoning changed the setbacks, so that the original house was in the setback. The original house would have been grandfathered in, but because we were actively doing work at the time of the change, they no longer qualified for grandfathering, because new construction had to be compliant. They had to tear down the work they were doing, then apply for an exception to fix their house to the original condition because it exceeded the 10% maintenance limit, it was denied, and about a year later the house was condemned for non-compliance.

I have had several experiences with zoning boards who refused street access to various projects, which is generally required for egressing, and had to abandon them. or other cases of zoning moving exits around to the point where we couldn't get doors close enough to allow proper egress. Often they will require building materials or finishes that aren't building code compliant, usually its a smoke issue.

^Paying all of those fees, doing all of those studies, going to public meetings and dealing with all that extra asinine crap costs TONS of money, and bring no value. its all so you can get a check mark, and take that to the next layer of officials, who then might have some value adding features. but 90% of zoning doesn't bring any direct or indirect value, and is instead are just Karen's the city over getting together to tell other people what they can and cant do on their own property.
Click to expand...
Whenever I drive through Atlanta I get a feel of this big city environment you speak of. I'm sure it's a big headache and mess as you say and in need of being reworked, refined, and in some cases eliminated, but it doesnt invalidate the benefits of zoning in and of itself, just signs of big city regulations. More people equals more hassle, but usually there's more money too as compensation. I live in smaller town, so it's just more basic in terms of everything you listed above. Less money but less hassle.
 
#489
#489
hog88 said:
How? The job was already being done, the only thing that improved was the methods and science. The FDA in itself didn't improve drug safety.
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I just mean having government testing and monitoring of consumer drugs makes people safer. You're hung up on the fda / dept of chemistry issue.
 
#490
#490
hog88 said:
Although my thoughts on Texas and especially Houston are well known. Houston the 4th largest city in the US has no zoning laws, hasn't seemed to hurt property values there.
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That's strange. Usually the impetus for zoning regs is rich folk wanting to keep everyone else out of their neighborhood.
 
#492
#492
jvol1 said:
Whenever I drive through Atlanta I get a feel of this big city environment you speak of. I'm sure it's a big headache and mess as you say and in need of being reworked, refined, and in some cases eliminated, but it doesnt invalidate the benefits of zoning in and of itself, just signs of big city regulations. More people equals more hassle, but usually there's more money too as compensation. I live in smaller town, so it's just more basic in terms of everything you listed above. Less money but less hassle.
Click to expand...
I mean, what you are pointing out here was exactly the discussion. Its never been that we should have NO government, as luther likes to red herring about. Its that the government is doing too much and devaluing the nation with its actions instead of increasing the value. And its because it is too big, too inefficient, with too many layers, and lawyers. its fine on the outside looking in if you don't deal with it, and you can think "yeah this works". but when you deal with them it becomes very clear that less, even drastically less, would bring a better value than what we currently have.
 
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#493
#493
LouderVol said:
you deal with the simplest zoning organization I have ever even heard of. I have been working in Architecture for 11 years now almost. worked across most of the SE and except for Federal projects or projects in BF I have dealt with this. and what you are describing only protects from what gets built. Any value will be more driven by occupants, upkeep, and general use. Often those zoning regs lock people in place, so less money comes into the area, things deteriorate, and the neighborhoods get worse.

Here in Atlanta area you have to pull several zoning permits before you can do anything. each one comes with a fee. Traffic studies, sewer capacity, storm water is a HUGE cost down here, typically some type of street improvement requirements, or lighting. And before you say well those are improvements, they aren't, they are maintenance items on public property the city itself doesn't do despite charging you fees associated with that maintenance. and then there is probably some neighborhood or PUD (planned unit development), or several layers of approvals you have to get like the CAP (Central Atlanta Progress, we called the Center of Anti Progress), DRC (design review committees) and/or historic neighborhood. All of which can, and often do, give completely contradictory requirements, and some that are against the building code. and there is no code there, so they can make up whatever requirements they want, and the only way to go around them is to try and get the mayor involved, good luck. you may only be dealing with the backside of things, but any city will have most of these things, the contractor/builder probably handles a bunch of these you don't know about and bake it into their costs. the water/sewer/storm fees are separate from your hook up fees btw. I would say they generally devalue the property value to keep things as they are without realizing they are creating the death spiral that kills neighborhoods.

I have had one client lose their home because of a zoning change. We went through got the permits and they started working on an expansion. during that time the local zoning changed the setbacks, so that the original house was in the setback. The original house would have been grandfathered in, but because we were actively doing work at the time of the change, they no longer qualified for grandfathering, because new construction had to be compliant. They had to tear down the work they were doing, then apply for an exception to fix their house to the original condition because it exceeded the 10% maintenance limit, it was denied, and about a year later the house was condemned for non-compliance.

I have had several experiences with zoning boards who refused street access to various projects, which is generally required for egressing, and had to abandon them. or other cases of zoning moving exits around to the point where we couldn't get doors close enough to allow proper egress. Often they will require building materials or finishes that aren't building code compliant, usually its a smoke issue.

^Paying all of those fees, doing all of those studies, going to public meetings and dealing with all that extra asinine crap costs TONS of money, and bring no value. its all so you can get a check mark, and take that to the next layer of officials, who then might have some value adding features. but 90% of zoning doesn't bring any direct or indirect value, and is instead are just Karen's the city over getting together to tell other people what they can and cant do on their own property.
Click to expand...
God bless anyone who routinely deals with bureaucratic red tape and keeps their civility.
 
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#494
#494
jvol1 said:
I just mean having government testing and monitoring of consumer drugs makes people safer. You're hung up on the fda / dept of chemistry issue.
Click to expand...

Oxycontin
Darvacet
Palladone
Quaalude
Vioxx

And that's just a small portion of the drugs approved by the FDA, so explain to me how the FDA has made us safer?
 
#495
#495
hog88 said:
Oxycontin
Darvacet
Palladone
Quaalude
Vioxx

And that's just a small portion of the drugs approved by the FDA, so explain to me how the FDA has made us safer?
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jvol needs to look at how the FDA handles the drug approval process, and tell us how that keeps us safe.
 
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#499
#499
clarksvol00 said:
Were you a naive young liberal at the time? I'm curious about how some of the other posters identified themselves at the time, but like I said they probably won't admit to it... or outright lie.
Click to expand...

Not many "liberals" trusted Bush/Cheney. I don't think it's political. Percentage-wise, more Dems voted against war with Iraq than Republicans. I just figured Bush/Cheney knew more than I did so I gave them my support. They blew it. Now I consider that administration to have done more damage than any other in my lifetime, beating out LBJ and Carter.
 
#500
#500
hog88 said:
Oxycontin
Darvacet
Palladone
Quaalude
Vioxx

And that's just a small portion of the drugs approved by the FDA, so explain to me how the FDA has made us safer?
Click to expand...
Used as prescribed, they're safe. When people abuse them they become evil. I dont think this falls on the fda.
 
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