Do you want Bama to win just because they're in the SEC?

[3L with debt]

Okay, so we get a cornerback from Virginia or someplace because of the overall "lustre of the SEC." But you guys get a cornerback too, and now because you're the one winning championships, you beat us out for an extra elite DT. Same thing with Alabama; they get a cornerback too, but they also beat us out for a top RB in Memphis. This is a net loss for us. We're not competing with the country as a whole; we're only competing with Florida and Alabama and Georgia and LSU and Auburn. Losing ground relative to those teams doesn't help us at all.

Imagine if you will an alternate history in which USC beat UCLA as expected in 2006, so UF didn't sniff the championship game, and in which Oklahoma came out quickly and handled UF in last year's title game. Would you seriously argue that Tennessee football is somehow in a better place right now because Urban Meyer has those two rings?

I would seriously argue that UT is indirectly benefited by UF, or any other SEC school, winning the MNC.

 

[kptvol]

I heard Eric Berry said the main reason he chose Tennessee was Florida's victory over Ohio State.

 

[lawgator1]

Okay, so we get a cornerback from Virginia or someplace because of the overall "lustre of the SEC." But you guys get a cornerback too, and now because you're the one winning championships, you beat us out for an extra elite DT. Same thing with Alabama; they get a cornerback too, but they also beat us out for a top RB in Memphis. This is a net loss for us. We're not competing with the country as a whole; we're only competing with Florida and Alabama and Georgia and LSU and Auburn. Losing ground relative to those teams doesn't help us at all.

Imagine if you will an alternate history in which USC beat UCLA as expected in 2006, so UF didn't sniff the championship game, and in which Oklahoma came out quickly and handled UF in last year's title game. Would you seriously argue that Tennessee football is somehow in a better place right now because Urban Meyer has those two rings?

I heard Eric Berry said the main reason he chose Tennessee was Florida's victory over Ohio State.

Winner.

 

[tvolsfan]

I hate to see Mack Briwn or that shoddy TX schedule validated, but it doesn't help UT in the least for AL to win.

I've got to give Mack Brown credit. I never considered him a great coach, but it looks like he has effectively used the success he had with Vince Young to work harder and keep bringing good people in. Good to see he kept working instead of getting complacent.

 

[tvolsfan]

The SEC has had the national champion the last 3 years, and it has a team in the title game this year. We already know the SEC is good. Bama losing wont change that fact at all.

 

[Remy]

I would be the fluffer in Brokeback Mountian 2 before I cheer for Bama or Florida. Them winning helps only them.

... lol, what this Vol said and I'll be fluffer II b4 pulling for UF or Bammer! ...

 

[Vercingetorix]

I would seriously argue that UT is indirectly benefited by UF, or any other SEC school, winning the MNC.

Even if it indirectly benefits us, it directly benefits them. It pushes us farther behind in relation to them. The only thing that matters is where we are in comparison to the top teams in the SEC, and them winning championships helps them a hell of a lot more than whatever indirect benefit we might get from it.

 

[buckeyevol23]

Second, the number of times that a specific recruit might pick Tennessee over Alabam because Alabama made it to the championship team and lost, versus made it to the championship game but won, is tiny and probably not worthy of comment. How many recruits are going to pick UT over Alabama because Alabama lost their BCS game? Please.

You're right. At this point, it makes little difference in recruiting whether they win or lose the NC. So given the option of Bama having another championship to brag to us about vs not, I'm going with the latter.

 

[JeepJeep]

NOOO.. you should want the SEC 10-0...and another national championship for the SEC

and the fact that no Conference has had 3 DIFFERENT teams with the NC in a row.

 

[DC Vol]

You really think it helps Tennessee recruiting to have our rivals win national championships? You know that we go head to head with these teams for players every year, right?

It's amazing that people think that their success somehow rubs off on us and makes guys want to come to Knoxville. That's as nonsensical as if a Falcons fan like me went around crowing about how awesome of a season the Saints were having because they're in the same division.

Screw the SEC. Screw Florida, and screw Alabama, and screw Georgia and LSU and Auburn and Ole Miss and Mississippi State and Arkansas and South Carolina and Kentucky and Vanderbilt. Screw them all. Go Vols.

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[TennNC]

I hate to see Mack Briwn or that shoddy TX schedule validated, but it doesn't help UT in the least for AL to win.

Either Texas or Alabama is going to win that game.

If it doesn't help in the least for AL to win, which hurts UT the least - a Bama victory or a Texas victory?

 

[TennNC]

It's amazing that people think that their success somehow rubs off on us and makes guys want to come to Knoxville. That's as nonsensical as if a Falcons fan like me went around crowing about how awesome of a season the Saints were having because they're in the same division.

No. This is not apt. NFL teams don't recruit. Players don't all decide where they want to play, so it's irrelevant.

HS players decide where to play college ball. And if they want to play against the best, they come to the SEC.

If all our conference rivals sucked, we would be the equivalent of Boise State. Do you think the chances of Boise St. winning a NC are higher than Tennessee? Think the SEC has anything to do with that?

There's a reason coaches lure bball recruits with the vision of playing in the Big East. Just like football recruits want to play in the SEC. A Bama or UF NC may hurt our chances somewhat going head-to-head with Bama with individual recruits, but it makes our chances of recruiting nationwide better IMO.

 

[Vercingetorix]

No. This is not apt. NFL teams don't recruit. Players don't all decide where they want to play, so it's irrelevant.

My point was that it's basically trying to borrow someone else's glory. You hear this crap all the time. "If the SEC wins, it makes Tennessee look better!" That's a loser's argument. Tennessee winning makes Tennessee look better.

If all our conference rivals sucked, we would be the equivalent of Boise State. Do you think the chances of Boise St. winning a NC are higher than Tennessee? Think the SEC has anything to do with that?

This is as much of a straw man argument as it was when Lawgator made it above. The SEC is the best I-A conference in the country; the WAC is among the worst. The SEC could become a conference of 12 South Carolinas and it would still be better than the WAC.

There's a reason coaches lure bball recruits with the vision of playing in the Big East. Just like football recruits want to play in the SEC. A Bama or UF NC may hurt our chances somewhat going head-to-head with Bama with individual recruits, but it makes our chances of recruiting nationwide better IMO.

But it makes Florida's and Alabama's and LSU's chances of recruiting nationwide better too. They don't have to rely on it like we do, but all the top SEC programs reach out of state to get a few top players. The idea that an elite recruit in California or Texas watches Florida and Alabama win national championships, and that makes him want to play in the SEC so badly that he ends up in Knoxville, strikes me as more wishful thinking than anything else.

Of course the SEC brand helps us. But when our rivals win championships, they not only benefit from the enhanced SEC brand, but from the actual championship too. That pushes us relatively further behind. And where we are relative to them is the only thing that matters.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Either Texas or Alabama is going to win that game.

If it doesn't help in the least for AL to win, which hurts UT the least - a Bama victory or a Texas victory?

An Alabama victory and all the attendant "Saban is building a dynasty" press would not only be physically sickening, but it would hurt Tennessee in recruiting battles. An Alabama loss, if embarrassing enough, might even help a little bit. How would a Texas victory hurt us at all?

 

[kptvol]

An Alabama victory and all the attendant "Saban is building a dynasty" press would not only be physically sickening, but it would hurt Tennessee in recruiting battles. An Alabama loss, if embarrassing enough, might even help a little bit. How would a Texas victory hurt us at all?

Yeah I'm not getting how Bama winning helps recruiting. I guess there's a slim chance some kid is choosing between Pitt and UT will want to come to the SEC because we've got so many championships. That's great. Unfortunately, we'll also be battling UA for about a dozen kids we need and Saban can shake their hands with five rings on his fingers.

 

[TennNC]

My point was that it's basically trying to borrow someone else's glory. You hear this crap all the time. "If the SEC wins, it makes Tennessee look better!" That's a loser's argument. Tennessee winning makes Tennessee look better.

I don't really care how it makes us look. I care that it keeps us in the elite conference with the chance to play against the best football teams year in and year out and have the glory of winning it all. I want to be what Bama or UF is this year, and I'm not ashamed of that at all.

Had FSU, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, etc. gobbled up all those Nat'l championships in recent years instead of UF, UT, LSU and (maybe) Bama, do you think UT would be better off today?

I think those championships (UT's and our rivals') attract the best talent (coaches and players) to our league. Then we compete against them for the best talent in the nation. I'd rather compete on that level than do what FSU did when they went to the ACC.

A somewhat random follow-up question. What impact do you think Spurrier's arrival to the SEC has had on UT's overall success?

 

[3L with debt]

An Alabama victory and all the attendant "Saban is building a dynasty" press would not only be physically sickening, but it would hurt Tennessee in recruiting battles. An Alabama loss, if embarrassing enough, might even help a little bit. How would a Texas victory hurt us at all?

I disagree. Saban answered the Utah loss (which was pretty darn embarrassing) with the number class... again.

I don't argue that an Alabama NC will help UTwhen recruiting against other SEC schools when going head to head on a recruit, but that is not what is at stake now. Alabama has already proven that they are the best team in the SEC so whatever recruiting edge comes from being better than the rest of the SEC... Alabama alreay enjoys.

The SEC winning the MNC again only adds to the conference's national prestige. This translates into better tv deals for the conference; more conference teams in bowls (so more bowl money is shared); and makes it easier for an SEC team to be ranked due to the perceived strength of the conference schedule. I guess this argument can be taken further that with another SEC MNC can help the rest of the conference teams raid players looking at teams from other conferences but I believe that my earlier points are enough alone.

A texas win alone will not undue what has been accomplished so far by the SEC but if followed by another Big 12 MNC and so forth.... Well, then the SEC's position to broker better tv deals, place eligible teams in bowls, and garner rankings will be tougher.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Had FSU, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, etc. gobbled up all those Nat'l championships in recent years instead of UF, UT, LSU and (maybe) Bama, do you think UT would be better off today?

Well, the conference has won three and maybe about to be four national championships in a row, and we have the least amount of talent in Knoxville that we've had in a long time, so I certainly don't see how it's been helping us. South Carolina and Kentucky and Auburn and Georgia and everybody else don't seem to be getting any better. The only teams that seem to be getting better are the ones who have been winning the championships themselves. (With the exception of LSU, but that's because Les Miles is a bonehead.)

I understand the argument, but I just don't agree that it helps us. At best, the SEC brand helps everybody equally, and at worst, it gives an extra edge to Florida or Alabama or whoever actually wins the championships. And if that's the case, then why in the world would I root for a team that I detest to win a championship?

A somewhat random follow-up question. What impact do you think Spurrier's arrival to the SEC has had on UT's overall success?

I can't see that it's had any effect at all. We've lost to him a couple of times, but we've been crappy anyway. I don't think we've lost many recruits to him. Very little if any effect, IMO.

 

[3L with debt]

i don't really care how it makes us look. I care that it keeps us in the elite conference with the chance to play against the best football teams year in and year out and have the glory of winning it all. I want to be what bama or uf is this year, and i'm not ashamed of that at all.

Had fsu, oklahoma, texas, usc, etc. Gobbled up all those nat'l championships in recent years instead of uf, ut, lsu and (maybe) bama, do you think ut would be better off today?

I think those championships (ut's and our rivals') attract the best talent (coaches and players) to our league. Then we compete against them for the best talent in the nation. I'd rather compete on that level than do what fsu did when they went to the acc.

this!!!

 

[3L with debt]

A somewhat random follow-up question. What impact do you think Spurrier's arrival to the SEC has had on UT's overall success?

It is random but... wow, good question only because I do believe that Spurrier's arrival was good for the conference as a whole but I'm not so certain that UT benefited given that Spurrier took so many persoanal shots at UT and made UT the butt of several jokes. Given the dominance over Alabama, UT may have more conference titles if not for Spurrier.

 

[allvol9]

I know it is the SEC....but no way can I ever cheer for Alabama. So for one day only....Hookem Horns!

 

[kptvol]

I

I think those championships (UT's and our rivals') attract the best talent (coaches and players) to our league. Then we compete against them for the best talent in the nation. I'd rather compete on that level than do what FSU did when they went to the ACC.

The best talent in the southeast is already heading to the SEC. Our main competition for talent is going to be Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and LSU. Texas isn't going to pull a whole bunch of Georgia kids, but if the Bulldogs slide into mediocrity, the Vols will have a great shot to swipe the state's elite talent.

 

[milohimself]

Since the positives and negatives outweigh eachother in terms of recruiting, that boils the argument down to:

Do I want to pull for Florida or Alabama?

Hell no.

Done and done, go Texas, go Cincy.

 

[vol_in_ar]

I say HOOK 'EM HORNS!

Some think it makes the SEC look better. I say I'd love an 8-2 SEC bowl record (gators and Bammers lose).

We benefit nothing from an Alabama national championship. Ask yourself this: Would Alabama fans cheer for Tennessee in this game?

No
I want Texas to smoke 'em....

 

[manfromtn]

An Alabama victory and all the attendant "Saban is building a dynasty" press would not only be physically sickening, but it would hurt Tennessee in recruiting battles. An Alabama loss, if embarrassing enough, might even help a little bit. How would a Texas victory hurt us at all?[/QUOTE]

Does DeMarco Cobbs ring a bell? Texas took him from us, didn't they? You can argue the fact all day and all night, but the people out there recruiting, including CLK and his staff, know that the stronger the SEC is, the better our recruiting chances nationally are. The bowl games are the last thing most recruits see before making their decisions. And ESPN makes it a point each year to break down how each conference as a whole does in their bowl games respectively. If it comes to going heads up against the team in question(i.e. Bama or UF) their NC may help them or hurt them against us. Some kids will look at Bama and say, they just won the NC, they are so deep, I won't get to play for a year or two. But when it comes to us going head to head against Oregon, USC, etc., an SEC NC helps us, period. Some will say we don't have to worry about Oregon, etc, but if you look at the top 150 recruits, you see USC and Oregon on their top 5 quite a bit. No, I am never gonna be a Bama fan. I am 42 years old and have seen some of the longest Bama streaks against us and hate them worse than UF or anyone else, but when it comes bowl season, I am an SEC fan. I want Bama to beat Texas and everyone else they play, so we can be the ones to take down the defending National Champions, their undefeated qb, and more than likely end the nation's longest winning streak when they come to Neyland next year. Now, if you can't see that when that happens, it boosts our recruiting strength, you are being extremely nearsighted. It will be much better than beating the team that always chokes in the bowl. If that happens, we are just another team that beat them.