Dobbs taking it to the Cowboys

#51
#51
turbovol said:
But all things considered, the Cards running game was the real difference today--that and their defense.
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But Dobbs is a huge part of the run game. His 44 yard gain on the second play of the game set the tone. Also like other great running QBs (see Lamar Jackson) teams have to honor his running ability by keeping a defender on the backside incase he keeps the ball on a read option or bootleg. That extra guy having to account for the QB helps the rest of the team in the run by making it 10 on 10 rather than 10 on 11 which is what usually happens when the QB is not a threat to run.

Dobbs presence helps the run game.
 
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#54
#54
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Dobbs had the 4th highest QBR today of any starting QB. He has a QB Rating of 98.1 for the season. He's completing 72% of his passes.

The numbers and the eye test say he's been killing it. Especially these past 2 games.
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I'm not interested in going down the rabbit hole with you about your personal takes on how definitions work. Josh had a solid game and I think that's awesome. He deserves it. "Killing it" yesterday was, say, Herbert/Tua/Mahomes. It's a short list because the criteria is definitionally exclusive. Dobbs looked good. I'm genuinely looking forward to the next game though the 49ers will be a big test.

And FTR nothing on this board carries less weight than you citing anything to do with your eyes. Let's just not go there.
 
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#55
#55
The Titans stunk it up today but Dobbs getting the W took the sting away a little. I'm glad people are finally seeing his potential. Such a good guy. I want to see him have a lengthy and successful career.
 
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#56
#56
rocketskates said:
The Titans stunk it up today but Dobbs getting the W took the sting away a little. I'm glad people are finally seeing his potential. Such a good guy. I want to see him have a lengthy and successful career.
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One needn't even be a Vol fan...all it should take for basically anyone to root for Josh Dobbs to succeed is know anything about the man. (ok, maybe not on the actual day the Cards are playing your team but other than that...)
 
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#59
#59
hndog609 said:
I'm not interested in going down the rabbit hole with you about your personal takes on how definitions work. Josh had a solid game and I think that's awesome. He deserves it. "Killing it" yesterday was, say, Herbert/Tua/Mahomes. It's a short list because the criteria is definitionally exclusive. Dobbs looked good. I'm genuinely looking forward to the next game though the 49ers will be a big test.

And FTR nothing on this board carries less weight than you citing anything to do with your eyes. Let's just not go there.
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Why don't you think mobility from the QB contributing to success in the run game is part of the equation to killing it? Was Lamar Jackson not killing it at the end of the 2018 season when he was leading Baltimore to all those wins in a row after they turned into a juggernaut running attack because defenses had to respect his mobility?

There's more to killing it as a QB than high volume passing numbers. Helping your team win is the most important thing. And people who understand football knows mobility at the QB position impacts a team's ability to run the ball immensely.
 
#60
#60
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Why don't you think mobility from the QB contributing to success in the run game is part of the equation to killing it? Was Lamar Jackson not killing it at the end of the 2018 season when he was leading Baltimore to all those wins in a row after they turned into a juggernaut running attack because defenses had to respect his mobility?

There's more to killing it as a QB than high volume passing numbers. Helping your team win is the most important thing. And people who understand football knows mobility at the QB position impacts a team's ability to run the ball immensely.
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Just stop it. I was taking rushing into account and it changes nothing about the observation made. Is it additive? Sure. And if we start talking about anything close to Jackson's rushing production in '19 (where he finished #6 in yards) that's a big deal. That's not part of the conversation at this point. Josh accounted for 244yds and 1 td yesterday. That's pretty solid but even moreso when you consider the efficiency involved in getting to those numbers. Having said that the average for the people who actually did "kill it" yesterday (I cited Mahomes, Tua & Herbert) accounted for an average of 342 yards, 3.3td's and did so at an even higher passing % than Josh's outstanding number. Unless you're going to full on D4H this (you do know you're basically your own "jump the shark" term around here, right?) and argue that person A "killed it" while X/Y & Z "uber killed it", "mega killed it" and "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious killed it" wouldn't it just be a lot easier to say Josh had a really good day and hope there's only more of that to come? That's what the rational people are doing...give it a try.
 
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#61
#61
hndog609 said:
Just stop it. I was taking rushing into account and it changes nothing about the observation made. Is it additive? Sure. And if we start talking about anything close to Jackson's rushing production in '19 (where he finished #6 in yards) that's a big deal. That's not part of the conversation at this point. Josh accounted for 244yds and 1 td yesterday. That's pretty solid but even moreso when you consider the efficiency involved in getting to those numbers. Having said that the average for the people who actually did "kill it" yesterday (I cited Mahomes, Tua & Herbert) accounted for an average of 342 yards, 3.3td's and did so at an even higher passing % than Josh's outstanding number. Unless you're going to full on D4H this (you do know you're basically your own "jump the shark" term around here, right?) and argue that person A "killed it" while X/Y & Z "uber killed it", "mega killed it" and "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious killed it" wouldn't it just be a lot easier to say Josh had a really good day and hope there's only more of that to come? That's what the rational people are doing...give it a try.
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Ok. Then does quality of competition not matter? You cite Tua but he played a team that just gave up 70 points in a game. A total that is unheard of. Mahomes played a Bears team that is imploding. Compare that to Dobbs who played a Cowboys defense who were ranked 1st in 11 different categories before the game yesterday. In terms of degree of difficulty nobody faced tougher odds than Dobbs this weekend and yet he somehow had the 4th highest QBR of any QB.

I'm sorry but I'm not budging on this. When put in context he absolutely killed it this weekend. I watched every snap of that game and he was close to flawless. Even in things that don't show up on the stat sheet. There was one play early in the game where he avoided what looked like a sure sack to buy time that ended up causing the secondary into a penalty. Plays like that don't go on the stat sheet for the QB but when you watch the game you notice it's impact.

I'm not saying Dobbs is a superstar now. I'm just saying he looked like one yesterday if you actually watched the game closely rather than just looked at the box score afterwards.
 
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#62
#62
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Ok. Then does quality of competition not matter? You cite Tua but he played a team that just gave up 70 points in a game. A total that is unheard of. Mahomes played a Bears team that is imploding. Compare that to Dobbs who played a Cowboys defense who were ranked 1st in 11 different categories before the game yesterday. In terms of degree of difficulty nobody faced tougher odds than Dobbs this weekend and yet he somehow had the 4th highest QBR of any QB.

I'm sorry but I'm not budging on this. When put in context he absolutely killed it this weekend. I watched every snap of that game and he was close to flawless. Even in things that don't show up on the stat sheet. There was one play early in the game where he avoided what looked like a sure sack to buy time that ended up causing the secondary into a penalty. Plays like that don't go on the stat sheet for the QB but when you watch the game you notice it's impact.

I'm not saying Dobbs is a superstar now. I'm just saying he looked like one yesterday if you actually watched the game closely rather than just looked at the box score afterwards.
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Carry on then with however you want to divvy up definitions and transmogrify contexts. It's what you're literally infamous for anyway.

Hope Josh actually does, you know, in fact kill it (in a manner that matches that definition to people that aren't oozing bias) because that'll be fun to watch.
 
#63
#63
Dobbs didn't win that game on his own - BUT - he played really well, and managed the offense and made decisions really well. He did enough to win. I love this. The Cards owners were banking on Dobbs to fail, and he's winning anyway. I hope this boosts his value for some other team when the Cards experiment is over.
 
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#65
#65
hndog609 said:
Carry on then with however you want to divvy up definitions and transmogrify contexts. It's what you're literally infamous for anyway.

Hope Josh actually does, you know, in fact kill it (in a manner that matches that definition to people that aren't oozing bias) because that'll be fun to watch.
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Honest question here. Did you watch the entire game? Cause I get it if you just saw highlights and the box score. The box score was not "killing it". I watched the game so my bias is predicated on what I saw. And from an eye test perspective he looked really good. Better than I would have thought. I get it if you're hung up on the raw numbers. Especially if you didn't watch the game.

But I was highly impressed as someone who watched every snap and has high expectations for his capabilities as a NFL QB.
 
#69
#69
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Honest question here. Did you watch the entire game? Cause I get it if you just saw highlights and the box score. The box score was not "killing it". I watched the game so my bias is predicated on what I saw. And from an eye test perspective he looked really good. Better than I would have thought. I get it if you're hung up on the raw numbers. Especially if you didn't watch the game.

But I was highly impressed as someone who watched every snap and has high expectations for his capabilities as a NFL QB.
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He'd have beaten the Giants had their defense taken the field in the second half of that game and the coach not started playing to kill the clock at the start of the third quarter. And still much of the media calling him a capable replacement until Kyler returns.
A surprising read from SI on Dobbs' journey:'

 
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#70
#70
calban said:
He'd have beaten the Giants had their defense taken the field in the second half of that game and the coach not started playing to kill the clock at the start of the third quarter. And still much of the media calling him a capable replacement until Kyler returns.
A surprising read from SI on Dobbs' journey:'

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All he has to do is keep playing like he's been doing thus far. If he does everything will take care of itself.
 
#72
#72
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Honest question here. Did you watch the entire game? Cause I get it if you just saw highlights and the box score. The box score was not "killing it". I watched the game so my bias is predicated on what I saw. And from an eye test perspective he looked really good. Better than I would have thought. I get it if you're hung up on the raw numbers. Especially if you didn't watch the game.

But I was highly impressed as someone who watched every snap and has high expectations for his capabilities as a NFL QB.
Click to expand...

I was going to have my last post (basically a D4H gonna D4H) ride but you highlighted a serious flaw in your approach. Quick rundown.

You are quite likely the most biased person on this forum. From your nom de plume to a gajillion posts underscoring that fact it's the omnipresent elephant (and rhino, and 800lb gorilla, and several various examples of large cetaceans) in the room with you. Which is why you keep needing to straw man on "raw numbers" as well as invoking ye olde "eye test".

Why do you think I specifically cited who I did when I did? Why not include Kirk Cousins? Dude had 367 yards passing. That's more than Tua and over 100 more than Mahomes. Had as many TD's as Herbert and Mahomes too. Fact is that's a pretty damn good game. Having a comp% a good bit lower and a pic hurts though. Why not Andy Dalton? 361 yards with 2 td's and no pics is, again, a very nice outing to any sane person. Not completing 60% of the passes brings the production value down a bit. In short no, it's not just yards and td's. Those I cited were very efficient AND had great production. That's when the superlatives come out to play.

Production matters. So does efficiency and lack of costly mistakes. "Killing it" has to be production driven. Big yards leading to big points is literally the goal of the process. (and don't straw man the run game again, 200 passing and 100 rushing with 3 total TD's for example would be killing it production wise) You can win without it but every QB that sets foot on the field wants completions, yards (by whatever means) and scores. 500 yards and 5 td's will look awesome as far as it goes for the season tally but having 4 picks, a 55% completion percentage or low ypc curtails overly lauding that performance.

Josh had a "decent" production day. Even factoring in his rushing his total yards and td would only be middle of the pack with just the passing production alone for everyone else. The cleanliness and in game efficiency of how he got there elevates that to well above decent. Josh had a good game. Why you feel a need to throw glitter on that I suppose is just you sitting there driven by the elephants and rhinos and gorillas and whales. (the same ones that, for instance, just off the top of my head would include the dogged insistence that if we'd all wait long enough we'll see Kevin Hogan and Kelvin Taylor become solid starters)

Go Josh, Go Vols.

Now I'm done.
 
#75
#75
hndog609 said:
I was going to have my last post (basically a D4H gonna D4H) ride but you highlighted a serious flaw in your approach. Quick rundown.

You are quite likely the most biased person on this forum. From your nom de plume to a gajillion posts underscoring that fact it's the omnipresent elephant (and rhino, and 800lb gorilla, and several various examples of large cetaceans) in the room with you. Which is why you keep needing to straw man on "raw numbers" as well as invoking ye olde "eye test".

Why do you think I specifically cited who I did when I did? Why not include Kirk Cousins? Dude had 367 yards passing. That's more than Tua and over 100 more than Mahomes. Had as many TD's as Herbert and Mahomes too. Fact is that's a pretty damn good game. Having a comp% a good bit lower and a pic hurts though. Why not Andy Dalton? 361 yards with 2 td's and no pics is, again, a very nice outing to any sane person. Not completing 60% of the passes brings the production value down a bit. In short no, it's not just yards and td's. Those I cited were very efficient AND had great production. That's when the superlatives come out to play.

Production matters. So does efficiency and lack of costly mistakes. "Killing it" has to be production driven. Big yards leading to big points is literally the goal of the process. (and don't straw man the run game again, 200 passing and 100 rushing with 3 total TD's for example would be killing it production wise) You can win without it but every QB that sets foot on the field wants completions, yards (by whatever means) and scores. 500 yards and 5 td's will look awesome as far as it goes for the season tally but having 4 picks, a 55% completion percentage or low ypc curtails overly lauding that performance.

Josh had a "decent" production day. Even factoring in his rushing his total yards and td would only be middle of the pack with just the passing production alone for everyone else. The cleanliness and in game efficiency of how he got there elevates that to well above decent. Josh had a good game. Why you feel a need to throw glitter on that I suppose is just you sitting there driven by the elephants and rhinos and gorillas and whales. (the same ones that, for instance, just off the top of my head would include the dogged insistence that if we'd all wait long enough we'll see Kevin Hogan and Kelvin Taylor become solid starters)

Go Josh, Go Vols.

Now I'm done.
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And here's the flaw in your argument. It's entirely backward looking rather than forward looking. I get it. You wanna be objective. And valuing numbers over the eye test seems objective to the average person. However, sometimes a player flashes elite talent before the elite production comes. For example, I was big on Josh Allen before his breakout season in 2020. When people were just looking his numbers and saying he was holding the Bills back, I said he was a superstar who just needed some help. They get him Stefon Diggs and he becomes a perennial MVP candidate. Nothing in the numbers before 2020 said he would be that caliber of QB. However, if you watched him play you could see the elite talent he had.

If you watched that entire game against the Cowboys and didn't come away impressed with Dobbs then I don't know what to tell you. He looked like an elite QB. The raw numbers don't support it right now. All I'm saying is watch out cause it will very soon. He's looking the part. It's only a matter of time before the box score starts to match what the eyes are already telling us.
 
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