Dobbs taking it to the Cowboys

#76
#76
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
And here's the flaw in your argument. It's entirely backward looking rather than forward looking. I get it. You wanna be objective. And valuing numbers over the eye test seems objective to the average person. However, sometimes a player flashes elite talent before the elite production comes. For example, I was big on Josh Allen before his breakout season in 2020. When people were just looking his numbers and saying he was holding the Bills back, I said he was a superstar who just needed some help. They get him Stefon Diggs and he becomes a perennial MVP candidate. Nothing in the numbers before 2020 said he would be that caliber of QB. However, if you watched him play you could see the elite talent he had.

If you watched that entire game against the Cowboys and didn't come away impressed with Dobbs then I don't know what to tell you. He looked like an elite QB. The raw numbers don't support it right now. All I'm saying is watch out cause it will very soon. He's looking the part. It's only a matter of time before the box score starts to match what the eyes are already telling us.
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He didn't look elite, but he looked competent. That's what you want in a backup. That's what he is and likely will be for the rest of his career
 
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#77
#77
BernardKingGOAT said:
He didn't look elite, but he looked competent. That's what you want in a backup. That's what he is and likely will be for the rest of his career
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I'd like to think he (Josh) could exceed that expectation and I think it possible. The beauty of that post is the call back to the classic D4H'ness of it.

I'm the smartest guy in the room shtick? Check.
"...to the average person."

The callback on when he was right while ignoring, right there in the post he's quoting, just a couple of the many (manymanymanymanymany) examples of being not just wrong but hanging on to being wrong? Check.
"I was big on Josh Allen..."
include the dogged insistence that if we'd all wait long enough we'll see Kevin Hogan and Kelvin Taylor become solid starters
And of course the big one...the eye test that doesn't change what you can actually observe but take credit for what hasn't happened yet.
"The raw numbers don't support it right now..."
"It's only a matter of time..."

The hell of it is involving Josh I very much hope he's right.
 
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#79
#79
hndog609 said:
I'd like to think he (Josh) could exceed that expectation and I think it possible. The beauty of that post is the call back to the classic D4H'ness of it.

I'm the smartest guy in the room shtick? Check.
"...to the average person."

The callback on when he was right while ignoring, right there in the post he's quoting, just a couple of the many (manymanymanymanymany) examples of being not just wrong but hanging on to being wrong? Check.
"I was big on Josh Allen..."
include the dogged insistence that if we'd all wait long enough we'll see Kevin Hogan and Kelvin Taylor become solid starters
And of course the big one...the eye test that doesn't change what you can actually observe but take credit for what hasn't happened yet.
"The raw numbers don't support it right now..."
"It's only a matter of time..."

The hell of it is involving Josh I very much hope he's right.
Click to expand...

Come on now. Everyone makes mistakes. However, the guys who I have put the most stake on have had a tendency to hit. I never said Hogan would be a star. Just that he would be a decent starter. Obviously that was very wrong. But that's completely different than Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Dobbs. I gave those 3 guys the highest marks of any QBs to come out since 2016. Also being completely transparent I also had Trey Lance rated that highly as well. Lamar and Allen hit big like I predicted. Dobbs is hopefully gonna follow suit shortly. And I still have faith in Trey Lance despite most people thinking he's a bust right now.
 
#81
#81
"Dobbs ranks just 19th in the league among quarterbacks with a PFF grade of 68.4, but that’s a far cry from the 44.4 he was given following the Cardinals loss to the Washington Commanders in Week 1. So far, he has 549 passing yards, two touchdown passes, a 98.1 passer rating, plus 93 rushing yards on 12 carries, and one rushing touchdown. "

"He completed 80.9% of his passing attempts, totaled 244 yards from scrimmage (including 189 passing yards), and averaged a stellar 9.0 yards per throw. If Dobbs keeps playing this way, then the Cards could be in good hands until Kyler Murray returns." (against Dallas)

Raising Arizona

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NFL Football Player Stats & Stats Leaders - Completion Percentage

Free NFL football player stats and stats leaders in simple, easy to read tables. This page tracks completion percentage statistics.
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#82
#82
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Come on now. Everyone makes mistakes. However, the guys who I have put the most stake on have had a tendency to hit. I never said Hogan would be a star. Just that he would be a decent starter. Obviously that was very wrong. But that's completely different than Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Dobbs. I gave those 3 guys the highest marks of any QBs to come out since 2016. Also being completely transparent I also had Trey Lance rated that highly as well. Lamar and Allen hit big like I predicted. Dobbs is hopefully gonna follow suit shortly. And I still have faith in Trey Lance despite most people thinking he's a bust right now.
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You do not want to play this game. Without even looking I know Cam Sutton and Corey Davis were supposed to be generational superstar players. Perennial All Pro types. You mentioned Lance. I can't recall but you sure you'd want us looking up your take on Fields?

Again, the last thing you will ever want is an audit of your prediction history. Best stand pat and hope we all watch Josh do well from here.
 
#83
#83
hndog609 said:
You do not want to play this game. Without even looking I know Cam Sutton and Corey Davis were supposed to be generational superstar players. Perennial All Pro types. You mentioned Lance. I can't recall but you sure you'd want us looking up your take on Fields?

Again, the last thing you will ever want is an audit of your prediction history. Best stand pat and hope we all watch Josh do well from here.
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I was never a Fields guy. Actually thought Kellen Mond might be better. I did like Zach Wilson a bit though. My 2021 QB rankings were Lance, then Lawrence, then Wilson, then Fields/Mond. I only rated Trey Lance as a elite All-Pro caliber prospect.

With regard to Corey Davis that was a huge miss. Still perplexed to this day how he never became any good. I was gonna blame the Titans organization until I saw AJ Brown succeed with the same QB and coaches. So yeah Corey Davis was a huge miss. I wouldn't say that for Cam. He's not been an elite CB but he's been solid to good. I think he has a chance this year with a pretty good Lions team to potentially make the Pro Bowl. He's their #1 corner and they're getting some hype. Maybe like Dobbs his time is now.

I never claimed to be infallible. Just said we should wait and see before burying guys like Dobbs who the media or scouts didn't want to believe in.
 
#84
#84
hndog609 said:
I was going to have my last post (basically a D4H gonna D4H) ride but you highlighted a serious flaw in your approach. Quick rundown.

You are quite likely the most biased person on this forum. From your nom de plume to a gajillion posts underscoring that fact it's the omnipresent elephant (and rhino, and 800lb gorilla, and several various examples of large cetaceans) in the room with you. Which is why you keep needing to straw man on "raw numbers" as well as invoking ye olde "eye test".

Why do you think I specifically cited who I did when I did? Why not include Kirk Cousins? Dude had 367 yards passing. That's more than Tua and over 100 more than Mahomes. Had as many TD's as Herbert and Mahomes too. Fact is that's a pretty damn good game. Having a comp% a good bit lower and a pic hurts though. Why not Andy Dalton? 361 yards with 2 td's and no pics is, again, a very nice outing to any sane person. Not completing 60% of the passes brings the production value down a bit. In short no, it's not just yards and td's. Those I cited were very efficient AND had great production. That's when the superlatives come out to play.

Production matters. So does efficiency and lack of costly mistakes. "Killing it" has to be production driven. Big yards leading to big points is literally the goal of the process. (and don't straw man the run game again, 200 passing and 100 rushing with 3 total TD's for example would be killing it production wise) You can win without it but every QB that sets foot on the field wants completions, yards (by whatever means) and scores. 500 yards and 5 td's will look awesome as far as it goes for the season tally but having 4 picks, a 55% completion percentage or low ypc curtails overly lauding that performance.

Josh had a "decent" production day. Even factoring in his rushing his total yards and td would only be middle of the pack with just the passing production alone for everyone else. The cleanliness and in game efficiency of how he got there elevates that to well above decent. Josh had a good game. Why you feel a need to throw glitter on that I suppose is just you sitting there driven by the elephants and rhinos and gorillas and whales. (the same ones that, for instance, just off the top of my head would include the dogged insistence that if we'd all wait long enough we'll see Kevin Hogan and Kelvin Taylor become solid starters)

Go Josh, Go Vols.

Now I'm done.
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Why do you care so much? Are you offended? What does it matter if someone thinks Josh killed it the last two games? You are too invested in squashing someone’s joy and it is honestly very weird. You seem overly sensitive about it, like you have been personally offended somehow. It’s just fan excitement. You can’t quantify killing it. There is no boundary for it. Can you be happy that this other fan is happy that a Vol is making big plays? Maybe Josh will eventually be top tier. Maybe not. For now, enjoy and be proud. We are seeing a Vol killing it, crushing it, excelling, turning heads, whatever you want to call it, on the big stage. He is playing very well, in an extremely short time after being dropped into a program and system he did not know. This is way beyond what a lot of prognosticators thought he would do.
 
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#86
#86
Have to agree with B4H about the Dallas game. I mean come on. His completion % was 80.9%. Some of his passes were pin point and made under pressure. Even did it with his legs. right now he's sitting among the Elites in the stats. We'll see next game against San Fran (top D on the road) how he holds up. wish him the best. he is Elite in character and hope he keeps building his Resume.

Add to all that how long he's been with this team and performing at this level. Very hard to just walk in and take the reins with guys you have no time with.
 
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#87
#87
calban said:
Have to agree with B4H about the Dallas game. I mean come on. His completion % was 80.9%. Some of his passes were pin point and made under pressure. Even did it with his legs. right now he's sitting among the Elites in the stats. We'll see next game against San Fran (top D on the road) how he holds up. wish him the best. he is Elite in character and hope he keeps building his Resume.

Add to all that how long he's been with this team and performing at this level. Very hard to just walk in and take the reins with guys you have no time with.
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This is the part getting lost in the discussion. He didn’t have an off-season with these coaches and players. He dropped in and has been successful. Screw anyone who tries to throw cold water on a Vol fan getting excited about that.
 
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#88
#88
OrangeBloodinTN said:
This is the part getting lost in the discussion. He didn’t have an off-season with these coaches and players. He dropped in and has been successful. Screw anyone who tries to throw cold water on a Vol fan getting excited about that.
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We'll see this coming game. Everyone is picking San Fran. If he pulls this one off and wins it could delay the return of Murray in Week 5 against the Bengals.
 
#89
#89
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I was never a Fields guy. Actually thought Kellen Mond might be better. I did like Zach Wilson a bit though. My 2021 QB rankings were Lance, then Lawrence, then Wilson, then Fields/Mond. I only rated Trey Lance as a elite All-Pro caliber prospect.

With regard to Corey Davis that was a huge miss. Still perplexed to this day how he never became any good. I was gonna blame the Titans organization until I saw AJ Brown succeed with the same QB and coaches. So yeah Corey Davis was a huge miss. I wouldn't say that for Cam. He's not been an elite CB but he's been solid to good. I think he has a chance this year with a pretty good Lions team to potentially make the Pro Bowl. He's their #1 corner and they're getting some hype. Maybe like Dobbs his time is now.

I never claimed to be infallible. Just said we should wait and see before burying guys like Dobbs who the media or scouts didn't want to believe in.
Click to expand...
This is now beyond the scope the FF. If you want to try to push all this again (nobody on this forum for any length of time doesn't know how you've rolled in the past with this stuff) head to the PFF and start a "I'm a genius talent evaluator let's look back over my history" thread. I hint at how it would go.

Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
In terms of their pro prospects or college? If we're talking college success, then you might as well be asking me who the top teams are. If we talking NFL, then this is how it would go:

Drew Lock = Matt Stafford
Jarrett Stidham = Jake Plummer
Jake Fromm = Andy Dalton
Tua Tagovailoa = don't have a comp on him but he won't be a high level NFL QB
Justin Fields = mini Cam Newton
Click to expand...

And you're doing the D4H shuffle with Sutton. Your bar for him All Pro/HOF. There is no credit for "solid to good". FWIW I hope the Lions thing works out for him (being a VFL of course) though it's amusing to think on the other side of the ball your boy Goff is playing at such a high level. He's no superstar but he's not the guaranteed bust you predicted either.

Anyway like I said, if you want to be



this isn't the forum so don't bother replying to this post, take it to the PFF.
 
#90
#90
OrangeBloodinTN said:
Why do you care so much? Are you offended? What does it matter if someone thinks Josh killed it the last two games? You are too invested in squashing someone’s joy and it is honestly very weird. You seem overly sensitive about it, like you have been personally offended somehow. It’s just fan excitement. You can’t quantify killing it. There is no boundary for it. Can you be happy that this other fan is happy that a Vol is making big plays? Maybe Josh will eventually be top tier. Maybe not. For now, enjoy and be proud. We are seeing a Vol killing it, crushing it, excelling, turning heads, whatever you want to call it, on the big stage. He is playing very well, in an extremely short time after being dropped into a program and system he did not know. This is way beyond what a lot of prognosticators thought he would do.
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Squashing someone's joy? I've repeatedly stated Josh did well. Did you miss those? I've repeatedly stated I'm looking forward to him doing even better. I'm all for joy over that, including my own FYI. D4H comes in and starts playing the games he does and it changes the context. As you can see however that's now beyond just talking Josh so that's moving on and here's hoping he has a good outing against SF. (which is going to be a tall order against SF and the #3ypg/#5ppg defense to go along with #4ypg/#3ppg offense) That's considered a much more intriguing match up now than it was when the schedule was made and Dobbs has no small part in that being the case. If Josh just plays well (nevermind really well) and keeps it close there’ll be a lot of eyes on him. If they win he and the cards will be one of the bigger stories of the early season. Now THAT would be a fun thing to see.
 
#91
#91
hndog609 said:
I was going to have my last post (basically a D4H gonna D4H) ride but you highlighted a serious flaw in your approach. Quick rundown.

You are quite likely the most biased person on this forum. From your nom de plume to a gajillion posts underscoring that fact it's the omnipresent elephant (and rhino, and 800lb gorilla, and several various examples of large cetaceans) in the room with you. Which is why you keep needing to straw man on "raw numbers" as well as invoking ye olde "eye test".

Why do you think I specifically cited who I did when I did? Why not include Kirk Cousins? Dude had 367 yards passing. That's more than Tua and over 100 more than Mahomes. Had as many TD's as Herbert and Mahomes too. Fact is that's a pretty damn good game. Having a comp% a good bit lower and a pic hurts though. Why not Andy Dalton? 361 yards with 2 td's and no pics is, again, a very nice outing to any sane person. Not completing 60% of the passes brings the production value down a bit. In short no, it's not just yards and td's. Those I cited were very efficient AND had great production. That's when the superlatives come out to play.

Production matters. So does efficiency and lack of costly mistakes. "Killing it" has to be production driven. Big yards leading to big points is literally the goal of the process. (and don't straw man the run game again, 200 passing and 100 rushing with 3 total TD's for example would be killing it production wise) You can win without it but every QB that sets foot on the field wants completions, yards (by whatever means) and scores. 500 yards and 5 td's will look awesome as far as it goes for the season tally but having 4 picks, a 55% completion percentage or low ypc curtails overly lauding that performance.

Josh had a "decent" production day. Even factoring in his rushing his total yards and td would only be middle of the pack with just the passing production alone for everyone else. The cleanliness and in game efficiency of how he got there elevates that to well above decent. Josh had a good game. Why you feel a need to throw glitter on that I suppose is just you sitting there driven by the elephants and rhinos and gorillas and whales. (the same ones that, for instance, just off the top of my head would include the dogged insistence that if we'd all wait long enough we'll see Kevin Hogan and Kelvin Taylor become solid starters)

Go Josh, Go Vols.

Now I'm done.
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You left out giant squids
 
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#92
#92
hndog609 said:
This is now beyond the scope the FF. If you want to try to push all this again (nobody on this forum for any length of time doesn't know how you've rolled in the past with this stuff) head to the PFF and start a "I'm a genius talent evaluator let's look back over my history" thread. I hint at how it would go.



And you're doing the D4H shuffle with Sutton. Your bar for him All Pro/HOF. There is no credit for "solid to good". FWIW I hope the Lions thing works out for him (being a VFL of course) though it's amusing to think on the other side of the ball your boy Goff is playing at such a high level. He's no superstar but he's not the guaranteed bust you predicted either.

Anyway like I said, if you want to be



this isn't the forum so don't bother replying to this post, take it to the PFF.
Click to expand...


You do know I post on other forums right? I haven't really done to much draft talk on this site since 2019. But on the forum called TheColi I have been breaking down prospects on a more consistent basis.

Also I change my views on prospects as they play more games. Up until draft day it's fair game to change projections. Here's what I said about the 2020 draft: https://www.thecoli.com/threads/swags-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings.774571/

As you can see Tua was my #1 QB. I was also higher on Jalen Hurts than most.

And here's what I said about the 2021 QB class: https://www.thecoli.com/threads/2021-nfl-qb-draft-class.807014/

- Trey Lance is my #1 QB. He reminds me of Donovan McNabb. He is the most likely superstar QB in this draft.

- Trevor Lawrence is too talented not to be good. But like Andrew Luck I doubt he reaches the heights of the pre-draft hype that is around him. He'll never be the best QB in the league for a stretch but he'll be a top level starter.

- Justin Fields comes off as an average NFL starter. I don't see him as special.

- Kellen Mond is my sleeper in this class. He reminds me of a shorter Colin Kaepernick.

Overall this will be a really good QB class. I see lots of future starters and even pro bowlers. However, I don't see two game changers like I did in 2018 with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. I would take both of them over any QB in this class.
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Guys can move up and down the draft board. I have no reason to pretend that I liked Trey Lance a lot but not Justin Fields. Obviously there was a point earlier in Justin Fields career where I liked his potential. But in the end I moved him into the Kellen Mond tier of potential starter but not a stud.
 
#93
#93
BernardKingGOAT said:
He didn't look elite, but he looked competent. That's what you want in a backup. That's what he is and likely will be for the rest of his career
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Why does he have to be a backup? He’s certainly outperforming at a minimum 20% of the other starting QB’s in the nfl so far this season. He’s outplaying Tanneyhill so far but those morans cut Dobbs and drafted Levis. Seems like he just needs to be on the right team that will give him a chance. Can’t think of another player easier to cheer for.
 
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#95
#95
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
You do know I post on other forums right? I haven't really done to much draft talk on this site since 2019. But on the forum called TheColi I have been breaking down prospects on a more consistent basis.

Also I change my views on prospects as they play more games. Up until draft day it's fair game to change projections. Here's what I said about the 2020 draft: https://www.thecoli.com/threads/swags-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings.774571/

As you can see Tua was my #1 QB. I was also higher on Jalen Hurts than most.

And here's what I said about the 2021 QB class: https://www.thecoli.com/threads/2021-nfl-qb-draft-class.807014/




Guys can move up and down the draft board. I have no reason to pretend that I liked Trey Lance a lot but not Justin Fields. Obviously there was a point earlier in Justin Fields career where I liked his potential. But in the end I moved him into the Kellen Mond tier of potential starter but not a stud.
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You trashed Dobbs and the entire 2016 team. You said Dobbs was going to be the GOAT. Above Unitas, Montana, Elway, Manning and Brady. You miss on about 90% of your predictions.
 
#96
#96
walkenvol said:
Why does he have to be a backup? He’s certainly outperforming at a minimum 20% of the other starting QB’s in the nfl so far this season. He’s outplaying Tanneyhill so far but those morans cut Dobbs and drafted Levis. Seems like he just needs to be on the right team that will give him a chance. Can’t think of another player easier to cheer for.
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You do realize on 3 separate teams he was third string, right? Didn't even make the active rosters. After this season, I hope one of the elite teams make him the permanent backup
 
#97
#97
raisingzona.com

Quarterback controversy could be brewing with the Arizona Cardinals

Josh Dobbs is earning the right to remain the starting signal-caller of the Arizona Cardinals when Kyler Murray returns from injury.
raisingzona.com raisingzona.com

Turns out Drew Petzing formerly with Cleveland as QB coach is the reason they grabbed Dobbs. Dobbs will have an advantage of knowing the Petzing system while Kyler would have to start from scratch under the new OC in week 5.
 
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#98
#98
calban said:
raisingzona.com

Quarterback controversy could be brewing with the Arizona Cardinals

Josh Dobbs is earning the right to remain the starting signal-caller of the Arizona Cardinals when Kyler Murray returns from injury.
raisingzona.com raisingzona.com

Turns out Drew Petzing formerly with Cleveland as QB coach is the reason they grabbed Dobbs. Dobbs will have an advantage of knowing the Petzing system while Kyler would have to start from scratch under the new OC in week 5.
Click to expand...

Also Kyler has never played under center in traditional offense. He's always been in the air raid playing from the shotgun. Being 5'10" and playing under center will be a new challenge to him. That's another advantage for Dobbs.
 
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