Does Springer make a difference?

#51
#51
We beat Kansas by 19 points. Springer went 13 pts with 3 assists. = at least 19pts.
 
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#52
#52
GregAmsler said:
At what point did I argue with facts and stats or even attempt to refute them? Sometimes, people see an argument when the other side is simply discussing.
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Didn’t say you specifically as several posters have been disparaging SV with claims of “turnover machine, can’t get the ball up the court, can’t dribble with his right hand, plays terrible D, can’t shoot anything but a set shot, etc”. Yet the facts are he leads the wings in minutes played, is second on the team in a/to ratio, solid shooting percentages and points / rebounds per game. He’s not all SEC caliber, but he’s a very solid SEC player yet some keep hammering on him. Sorry, but I’ve not read close enough to know where you personally stand on the topic.
 
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#54
#54
bleedingTNorange said:
Again, you claim he’s a turnover machine yet has the teams second best a:to...it’s one of those things that people have in their heads now and when he does turn it over it sticks out.
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His numbers are not terrible per minutes played. I think it’s probably more the same turnovers that frustrate people. Driving into traffic and hoping to make a play where there is nothing available. Barnes has said the same.
 
#56
#56
GregAmsler said:
Again, that surprises me, given the number of times I’ve seen him make bad decisions or simply have his dribble swiped. But numbers are numbers. Can’t deny them. And yeah, perhaps it does stick out more now.

I still think he’s better off the ball. He seems to shoot better as a spot up guy and JS can penetrate and finish/distribute much better.
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I don’t disagree, in fact I’ve said as much...I was just stating he’s not the turnover machine some make him out to be. I think Vescovi is a much better player with Springer out there, whether at PG or SG.
 
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#57
#57
cardvolfan said:
His numbers are not terrible per minutes played. I think it’s probably more the same turnovers that frustrate people. Driving into traffic and hoping to make a play where there is nothing available. Barnes has said the same.
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Barnes also continues to start him and play him more minutes than anyone else
 
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#58
#58
Problem is our other guards do the same occasionally, that’s not a problem exclusive to SV.
 
#59
#59
walkenvol said:
Problem is our other guards do the same occasionally, that’s not a problem exclusive to SV.
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Agree. And many of those turnovers are silly and unforced. There was a cross court pass that JJJ (I think...maybe it was Keon?) made out of bounds that was ridiculous. There was no real reward for making the pass, it was difficult, and it was thrown way too high. Stuff like that needs to be cleaned up. The good news is, we still won in a blowout and that stuff easily can be cleaned up.
 
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#60
#60
GregAmsler said:
Agree. And many of those turnovers are silly and unforced. There was a cross court pass that JJJ (I think...maybe it was Keon?) made out of bounds that was ridiculous. There was no real reward for making the pass, it was difficult, and it was thrown way too high. Stuff like that needs to be cleaned up. The good news is, we still won in a blowout and that stuff easily can be cleaned up.
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It was JJJ. Just a bad decision. I’m not sure how easily it can be cleaned up. It seems it should be easy, but these passes just keep happening.
 
#61
#61
cardvolfan said:
It was JJJ. Just a bad decision. I’m not sure how easily it can be cleaned up. It seems it should be easy, but these passes just keep happening.
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That was a weird play. I wonder if he saw something or if he panicked. He’ll learn from it... no doubt Barnes doesn’t let that play get a pass.
 
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#62
#62
Thunder Good-Oil said:
That was a weird play. I wonder if he saw something or if he panicked. He’ll learn from it... no doubt Barnes doesn’t let that play get a pass.
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No, but it was weird. Once in a while, James makes what seems like an impossible pass. I’m sure he realized what a high-risk pass it was.
 
#63
#63
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Facts are that Vescovi is averaging a TO every 16 minutes and he handles the ball a lot. That’s hardly being a turnover machine. Springer and Johnson turn the ball over at a considerably higher rate. JJJ has a very low TO rate.
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So yeah, Vescovi is a bad ball handler for a PG. I don’t care how many TOs he’s been credited with. He’s gotten away with a ton in the last 2 games. He frequently leaves his feet without knowing where he’s going. He tries to squeeze passes where he can’t. He gets picked off the dribble. He just had it taken right out of his hands while holding the ball.

There’s no defending it at this point.
 
#64
#64
GregAmsler said:
So yeah, Vescovi is a bad ball handler for a PG. I don’t care how many TOs he’s been credited with. He’s gotten away with a ton in the last 2 games. He frequently leaves his feet without knowing where he’s going. He tries to squeeze passes where he can’t. He gets picked off the dribble. He just had it taken right out of his hands while holding the ball.

There’s no defending it at this point.
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Good Lord. A pass out of bounds. This is ridiculous.
 
#65
#65
GregAmsler said:
So yeah, Vescovi is a bad ball handler for a PG. I don’t care how many TOs he’s been credited with. He’s gotten away with a ton in the last 2 games. He frequently leaves his feet without knowing where he’s going. He tries to squeeze passes where he can’t. He gets picked off the dribble. He just had it taken right out of his hands while holding the ball.

There’s no defending it at this point.
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I'll say this. I watch games and then look at the box score and wonder how he only ends up with 2 TOs. It really seems like more in many of the games.
 
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#66
#66
cncchris33 said:
I'll say this. I watch games and then look at the box score and wonder how he only ends up with 2 TOs. It really seems like more in many of the games.
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Well not tonight. Him and Jaden both had 5, Keon with 4. Some of that comes with pushing the tempo, which I'll take, but there definitely was just some straight up carelessness as well
 
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#67
#67
Vol49er said:
Well not tonight. Him and Jaden both had 5, Keon with 4. Some of that comes with pushing the tempo, which I'll take, but there definitely was just some straight up carelessness as well
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Yeah, I was speaking more of previous games. Tonight, a lot of carelessness in the 2md half by all the guards. As you said, more possessions equal more TOs.
 
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#68
#68
GregAmsler said:
So yeah, Vescovi is a bad ball handler for a PG. I don’t care how many TOs he’s been credited with. He’s gotten away with a ton in the last 2 games. He frequently leaves his feet without knowing where he’s going. He tries to squeeze passes where he can’t. He gets picked off the dribble. He just had it taken right out of his hands while holding the ball.

There’s no defending it at this point.
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Your right, your impressions are more valid than the stats - don’t let the facts get in your way!
 
#69
#69
walkenvol said:
Your right, your impressions are more valid than the stats - don’t let the facts get in your way!
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A) He had 5 TOs. That’s a fact. And a bad stat.
B) Show me the stats that show the times he made a careless pass or play but got away with it because the opponent knocked it out of bounds or otherwise didn’t capitalize. There were at least 3 plays in the Kentucky game that should have been TOs, but weren’t. And about 3 more last night.

Yes, there is more to a game than stats. They don’t reflect everything. Don’t confuse the word “facts” with “stats.”
 
#70
#70
For those who’ve watched Smart at LSU this year, he seems to be the PG who can facilitate what that position needs to get his teammates in the best position to score. I appreciate the effort Vescovi gives, but he’s playing out of position and is overmatched by nearly every guard he competes against physically.
 
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#71
#71
cardvolfan said:
For those who’ve watched Smart at LSU this year, he seems to be the PG who can facilitate what that position needs to get his teammates in the best position to score. I appreciate the effort Vescovi gives, but he’s playing out of position and is overmatched by nearly every guard he competes against physically.
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It’s not his fault that he’s a SG having to play PG. Hopefully, Chandler allows him to play off the ball (and off the bench) next season.

But I worry about how badly Georgia exposed Tennessee’s ineptitude against the press last night. Other teams have to have seen that and think, “maybe we should do that from the start.”
 
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#72
#72
Seems I’m not the only one whose “impression” of Vescovi is that he’s a turnover waiting to happen. People who are paid to discuss these things also see it
 

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#73
#73
GregAmsler said:
A) He had 5 TOs. That’s a fact. And a bad stat.
B) Show me the stats that show the times he made a careless pass or play but got away with it because the opponent knocked it out of bounds or otherwise didn’t capitalize. There were at least 3 plays in the Kentucky game that should have been TOs, but weren’t. And about 3 more last night.

Yes, there is more to a game than stats. They don’t reflect everything. Don’t confuse the word “facts” with “stats.”
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Weak sauce argument. Under that logic he should get another assist every time he passes the ball to a teammate who’s in a scoring position but the teammate doesn’t complete the play. Stats and averages prove out with a large enough sample size. It’s always possible to find small sample sizes and claim they refute the overall averages. Take a statistics class as it’s a mathematical science proving my point
 
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#74
#74
GregAmsler said:
Seems I’m not the only one whose “impression” of Vescovi is that he’s a turnover waiting to happen. People who are paid to discuss these things also see it
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And the person paid the most continues to play him the most minutes, Vescovi also had the 2nd best +/- on the team...not sure how to find the full years +/- but he’s routinely 1 or 2 so I’m guessing he’s Top 2 or 3 at worst on the team for the year. You like to say there’s more to it than stats, but then want to point to just his turnovers, he clearly is doing other things to impact the team in a positive manner and coach’s decision to continue on playing him big minutes.
 
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#75
#75
bleedingTNorange said:
And the person paid the most continues to play him the most minutes, Vescovi also had the 2nd best +/- on the team...not sure how to find the full years +/- but he’s routinely 1 or 2 so I’m guessing he’s Top 2 or 3 at worst on the team for the year. You like to say there’s more to it than stats, but then want to point to just his turnovers, he clearly is doing other things to impact the team in a positive manner and coach’s decision to continue on playing him big minutes.
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It’s not his fault he’s having to play out of position. This team simply doesn’t have a true PG. so Barnes has to play him there.
 
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