Don't make this loss something it's not

#76
#76
k-town_king said:
You are very right. We will still make it. It was an ugly game but just one game.

And why are people ok with the fact Pearl lost in the first game twice and and almost lost to a 15 seed as a 2 seed then lost the second game to a 7 seed. They brag about Pearl making it those years and those were successful seasons, but if Martin makes it with less talent than Pearl had and that happens its a bad season?
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The fact that you use "almost lost" in the tournament as part of your argument is comical.
 
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#77
#77
jp1 said:
The fact that you use "almost lost" in the tournament as part of your argument is comical.
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Agreed. When CCM actually MAKES the tournament, then let them try to make a valid argument. Anything they state at this point in comparison is comparing diamonds to manure.
 
#78
#78
I'm not disappointed we lost to Fla. I didn't expect to win this game. I am disappointed in the manner in which we lost.

What I saw today is just a continuation of what I consistently see, outside of the UK game, from Martin. Lack of game plan, not putting players in position to succeed, horrible strategy, lack of fundamentals and the only thing we do well is rebound.

What decent coach in basketball have you ever seen try to break a press by dribbling? Yet that is what we do. We send our players away and give no outlet for our ball handler. Where is the player flashing to the middle of the court to catch the ball and reverse it? We should be eating presses alive with our athleticism.

Why are we settling for so many 3 pointers when we have a lack of shooters? You ever think the reason why we get so many open 3s is because the opposing coach wants us to shoot them?

Our best offense is to get the ball up on the rim/glass and go get it and put it back. We are tailor made to run and gun and, even if we're taking bad shots, get the tempo going.

Zo seems to have a complete lack of urgency. He's been that way since Day 1 when he chose to be an asst on the U-20 USA basketball team instead of doing his job right away. So whether it's that we don't have the players or the coaching (or both), that fall squarely on Zo's shoulders.

So no, I'm not making too much of the Fla loss. It's the same ol', same ol'. And that's what's disappointing.
 
#79
#79
Chris4Vols22 said:
Very disappointing, yes. UF's defense just didn't let us get anything. When we could beat it, we struggled to hit shots. Our defense just couldn't keep up. Even when we were getting some hands in shooters' faces, they made some tough shots. We know we could have played better, but UF was throwing the book at us today, and that never makes it any easier.

I know this is a lot to ask for some posters, but try to consider the fact that we played on the road against a top-10 team. We weren't supposed to win this game, but it's very disheartening to see UF tear it open in the 2nd half. Could we have played better? Definitely. Did we lose because of effort? I don't think so. We needed some adjustments at the half, and they just didn't work. It's not that surprising a veteran and champion coach got the best of Martin. Still, a disappointing way to lose. You can't pull out many positives from a blowout.

Plain and simple, this game is not a season-killer. I know many will disagree, but I'm sorry, it's just not true. We have our back against the wall right now and our REAL bad losses (UTEP, NCSU, TAMU) have dug the hole that we're in. We don't have much room for error to ensure an at-large bid, but make no mistake, this loss has virtually no effect on our chances. This is a textbook low-risk game - lots to gain in the event of a win, little to lose in the event of a loss. If we can take care of business, we won't be on pins and needles come Selection Sunday. Obviously, that's not a given, but it's what I'm hoping for.

You're welcome to think or say anything you like about the situation, but take it from me, it's a lot more fun to cheer on the Vols and hope for the best IMO. I don't care how bad we are, as long as our coach and team doesn't blatantly give up, they deserve support from the fans. You don't have to agree, but I encourage you guys to make the best of it and not let it ruin your life.

AMNESIA, PEOPLE!! On to Ole Miss.:hi:

GO VOLS!!!!
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You're right the only thing to do is put this one behind us and move on. I wouldn't worry much if I were you because Coach Martin will be here next year regardless of what transpires this season.
 
#80
#80
k-town_king said:
So are you trying to say Pearl didn't inherit way more talent that was way more experienced?

Pearl. CJ Watson a long term NBA pg 12pts 5ast the year before. An All American, all time great clutch shooter and scorer in CLo 13.5 pts. Two shot blockers in Patterson 7.5pts 6reb and Wingate 5.0 Pts, 3.0 Reb and a wing defender in Asumnu 2.4 Pts, 1.0 Reb . Jujuan hadn't done anything yet 1.9 Pts. Plus everyones favorite Dane Bradshaw 3.0 Pts, 2.3 Reb, 1.9 Ast.

Martin. The top scorer he inherited was Tatum at 8.8, he averaged the same with Martin. Woolridge , not a shot blocker who avg 1.6 with Pearl. Maymon who avg 2.6. McRae 1.8. Golden 3.0 Pts, 1.1 Reb, 2.2 Ast. Kenny Hall 2.0 Pts, 1.8 Reb. Plus McBee with his whopping 3.0 Pts, 1.0 Reb, 0.6 Ast.


Pearl inherited so much more talent and production its not funny. I don't see why people don't acknowledge this. It was a reason we weren't picked to be good preseason the last few years. Martin did good for what Pearl left him. I'm sure we would have got an extra game or two and got in with Lofton.

Pearl got a freshman all american who put up 13.5 another 12 points and 5 ast guy and two big guys who both avg 5pts or better. Martin got a Sr who avg 8.8 and no one else over 3 pts.
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Let's just say I buy your argument that Pearl had more talent (I know it's debatable but I don't) but for the sake of agreement I will give it to you. Then the problem is with the talent level of Martin's players, right? He has had THREE YEARS to bring in talent and he didn't. Either way you make my point Martin is the problem and he has to go, period!

One other thing, you really can't argue the talent level on this team matches the performance. This team shows moments of greatness but for the most part is not coming even close to it's potential, period. Who fault is this? If they were all freshman and sophomores then you might have an argument but this is not the case.

Again, I was pulling for Martin but there comes a time when you either perform or you don't. Martin has proven, whether it's the players or his coaching abilities, he simply cannot get the job done.

Now some people on here will say why don't I apply the same standard to CBJ, I do. Given the fact it is more difficult to turn a deleted football program around like CBJ inherited as compared to a basketball program that arguably had some talent, CBJ to me has three years to show major improvement.

Martin has to be gone for this program to improve, no doubt about it. Thinking otherwise is foolish and unrealistic.
 
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#83
#83
wtorange said:
You're right the only thing to do is put this one behind us and move on. I wouldn't worry much if I were you because Coach Martin will be here next year regardless of what transpires this season.
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Unfortunately you are correct! My money is on Martin being here next year unless someone steps up and gives some major donations! The sad fact is Hammy ran the program in the ground both production wise and financially! It will take us several more years to recover and that is the sad fact also.

What can I do? I will support the football program with my money and presence but I will no longer support the basketball program until a new coach is hired. It will be a couple of years ... Unfortunately!
 
#85
#85
Chris4Vols22 said:
Very disappointing, yes. UF's defense just didn't let us get anything. When we could beat it, we struggled to hit shots. Our defense just couldn't keep up. Even when we were getting some hands in shooters' faces, they made some tough shots. We know we could have played better, but UF was throwing the book at us today, and that never makes it any easier.

I know this is a lot to ask for some posters, but try to consider the fact that we played on the road against a top-10 team. We weren't supposed to win this game, but it's very disheartening to see UF tear it open in the 2nd half. Could we have played better? Definitely. Did we lose because of effort? I don't think so. We needed some adjustments at the half, and they just didn't work. It's not that surprising a veteran and champion coach got the best of Martin. Still, a disappointing way to lose. You can't pull out many positives from a blowout.

Plain and simple, this game is not a season-killer. I know many will disagree, but I'm sorry, it's just not true. We have our back against the wall right now and our REAL bad losses (UTEP, NCSU, TAMU) have dug the hole that we're in. We don't have much room for error to ensure an at-large bid, but make no mistake, this loss has virtually no effect on our chances. This is a textbook low-risk game - lots to gain in the event of a win, little to lose in the event of a loss. If we can take care of business, we won't be on pins and needles come Selection Sunday. Obviously, that's not a given, but it's what I'm hoping for.

You're welcome to think or say anything you like about the situation, but take it from me, it's a lot more fun to cheer on the Vols and hope for the best IMO. I don't care how bad we are, as long as our coach and team doesn't blatantly give up, they deserve support from the fans. You don't have to agree, but I encourage you guys to make the best of it and not let it ruin your life.

AMNESIA, PEOPLE!! On to Ole Miss.:hi:

GO VOLS!!!!
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hey I hope CCM wins, but saying this season will end in the tourney is not sound. always support the team, and its not going to ruin my life. I do care how bad we are, that falls on the coaching staff.
 
#86
#86
Where I come from we aren't suppose to lose any of them so where you got that we were suppose to lose that game is beyond me...When Pearl was coach, there was no game we played I didn't feel we had a legit chance of winning...I felt we could win them all under him...With Counzo as coach I feel every game we play we could lose...That is just a fact...CCM is not what UT needs...He is a boring coach and is making this program boring to watch.
 
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#87
#87
GoVols15 said:
..but I will no longer support the basketball program until a new coach is hired. It will be a couple of years ... Unfortunately!
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Sadly that's probably the only thing that will end Martin's tenure.
Empty seats speak louder than volnation rants.
If you like the mess, keep buying tickets to watch it.
 
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#88
#88
To quote SB winning head coach, Mike Tomlin, "Excuses are the tools of the incompetent."
 
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#89
#89
calban said:
Sadly that's probably the only thing that will end Martin's tenure.
Empty seats speak louder than volnation rants.
If you like the mess, keep buying tickets to watch it.
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Somebody gets it.

Buzz loses like this. Attendance down. Buzzball ceases to exist.

Houston loses worse than this. Attendance gone. The Wade Houston experiment ends.

Fulmer goes Clawface and loses. Attendance down. A HOF head coach bites the dust.

Dools lose his battle with Rommel despite excellent shower technique and watering the bamboo. Attendance down. Dools heads to the big D.

Stop buying tickets and going to watch this slop. Change is gonna come.
 
#91
#91
Chris4Vols22 said:
Cool man.
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This performance showed how over rated our team is. I can only imagine how rancid our men's basketball team will be once Stokes, Maymon, and McRae gone next year. And yet again Cuonzo got worked over in the second half of a game with ZERO answers and his team quit on him.

Ben Howland needs a job right now. By the hairs of Zeus's beard can we get a proven winner at a high level in here? A man that knows X's & O's and how to get to Final 4's?
 
#92
#92
DERELICK_MY_VOLS said:
This performance showed how over rated our team is. I can only imagine how rancid our men's basketball team will be once Stokes, Maymon, and McRae gone next year. And yet again Cuonzo got worked over in the second half of a game with ZERO answers and his team quit on him.

Ben Howland needs a job right now. By the hairs of Zeus's beard can we get a proven winner at a high level in here? A man that knows X's & O's and how to get to Final 4's?
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Not at $1.35 M.
 
#94
#94
DERELICK_MY_VOLS said:
Wasn't he making $2,000,000/yr at UCLA? Not to far off for an unemployed head coach.
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No, it's not that far, but it is the difference between 10th and 4th or 5th in the league in salary.

I just don't have faith that UT will hire a proven guy like that and pay him what it's going to take to keep him happy. That's based on the fact that they just don't do that traditionally.

They got lucky with Pearl, he was proven at a lower level, but he wasn't a Howland type name at the time. Tennessee took a chance and it paid off, until it didn't.

That magic is all but gone now.
 
#95
#95
Vercingetorix said:
So if I were to look up your posts after Dooley lost to Kentucky in 2011, what would I be likely to find?
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Nothing. Don't care for college football. Martin and Dooley are not even comparable. One was a loser, the other had a respectable record with actual success at his previous school. Martin has been more successful at UT in pretty much every way than Dooley was. Just wish this season didn't turn out the way it has. Very disappointing.
 
#96
#96
vols 30 said:
I do , but in terms of still making the tournament . Would a loss to Ole Miss be the final nail?
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It could be. We would definitely be in the worst shape for it if we lose, but if we lost, then swept Mizzou and beat Florida without any more bone headed losses, then things would be different. Not to mention that it would be possible to make up ground in the SEC tourney, albeit unlikely if we're playing that bad. But in all practicality, if we lose to Ole Miss, I don't think we'll be in any bracket projections afterwards. Still too early to tell if a game is going to be a death blow or not.
 
#97
#97
Chris4Vols22 said:
Nothing. Don't care for college football. Martin and Dooley are not even comparable. One was a loser, the other had a respectable record with actual success at his previous school. Martin has been more successful at UT in pretty much every way than Dooley was. Just wish this season didn't turn out the way it has. Very disappointing.
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If you are suggesting that this season is the only example of Martin's inability to coach himself out of a wet paper bag, you are clearly not paying any attention. Martin's failure as a coach isn't something that is being brought up because of this year only and certainly not just because of today.
 
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#98
#98
BearCat204 said:
If you are suggesting that this season is the only example of Martin's inability to coach himself out of a wet paper bag, you are clearly not paying any attention. Martin's failure as a coach isn't something that is being brought up because of this year only and certainly not just because of today.
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K.
 
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#100
#100
BearCat204 said:
Your usual retort when someone responds to one of your threads or posts. Looking at this loss alone isn't really what those who want Martin gone are really pointing to, it's just another example of his coaching inability.
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You are correct my friend! It's looking at his body of work. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt from the beginning up until the first few games this year. After disappointing loss after disappointing loss this year I finally reached the obvious conclusion that he has to go for this program to improve. It just wasn't losing to Florida but the WAY WE LOST TO FLORIDA just confirmed my beliefs the last few weeks. Yea we may win a few games but the trajectory of the program is going straight to the bottom fast! Anyone that can't see it is blinded by the orange glasses they are wearing!
 
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