Doyel says Kiffin not a jerk

#376
#376
VolBeef88 said:
History says he can't. One thing is for sure, this years schedule sets up really nice for him. If he's ever gonna win 10 games this is gonna be his best shot.
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I truly understand points about his history and doubting success. I can't say that enough, but noone seems to get that part.
He has no history with this team and these coaches though.

If history is the basis for success or failure, it's shocking news to me anyway. Rich Rod at Michigan comes to mind quickly, in a football discussion. His history guaranteed success, but he failed.
 
#377
#377
Spartacavolus said:
I truly understand points about his history and doubting success. I can't say that enough, but noone seems to get that part.
He has no history with this team and these coaches though.

If history is the basis for success or failure, it's shocking news to me anyway. Rich Rod at Michigan comes to mind quickly, in a football discussion. His history guaranteed success, but he failed.
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The NORMAL way to judge is by looking at a persons performance. Some like you use emotion and hope.
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#378
#378
VolBeef88 said:
The NORMAL way to judge is by looking at a persons performance. Some like you use emotion and hope.
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It has nothing to do with emotion. Of course I hope he gets it done. I would assume all UT fans do because that means we are winning again.

It has to do with not guaranteeing failure in the future to due past failures. Personally, I think each and every instance of success or failure stands on it's own because there are many various circumstances.
 
#381
#381
steino said:
And that is the correct answer. So why give everyone hell for debating the merits of his past.
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I don't argue that. I argue the following:

-I argue that calling him a loser, clown, etc is disrespectful to the HC of our University, to the program and University.
-I argue that guaranteeing future success or failure on the past is foolish
-I argue that constant negativity and rehashing the negative only bears the fruit of arguments, brings nothing positive to the table just a few weeks prior to kickoff, and is an odd way to show support, and all posters here insist they support the current coach.
 
#382
#382
steino said:
Because "those who deny the past are doomed to repeat it".
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Denying the past and harping on it or rehashing it isn't comparable. Nobody has denied anything, except those that deny to look objectively at the entire situation.

From my experience, those that keep harping on the past in business and personal life stay stuck in it and get lapped.
 
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#385
#385
JayVols said:
I've already tried that one. Fell on deaf ears.
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That's incorrect. You didn't get my point again if that's what you think. Remembering the past and learning from it is the opposite of getting stuck on the past and not focusing on the present and future. The exact opposite.
 
#386
#386
Spartacavolus said:
I don't argue that. I argue the following:

-I argue that calling him a loser, clown, etc is disrespectful to the HC of our University, to the program and University.
-I argue that guaranteeing future success or failure on the past is foolish
-I argue that constant negativity and rehashing the negative only bears the fruit of arguments, brings nothing positive to the table just a few weeks prior to kickoff, and is an odd way to show support, and all posters here insist they support the current coach.
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You have to have heart surgery. It is a rare defect that is very often fatal.You are given 2 names of doctors that accept your insurance. You know nothing about either of them, so you schedule a meeting with each one to get to know them. You are really impressed with one surgeon. He says everything correctly, he's got a folksy charm about him. He tells you that you are in great hands and you have nothing to worry about. He says, "Trust me and trust my methods." with a great big smile and a genuine look that he has your best interests in mind. You flat out like the guy, and these feelings fill you with hope and eases your mind. Another surgeon is as grumpy and cantankerous as can be. He has terrible bedside manner and seems like it is a chore to even be in the room. He tells you that there are complications that can occur and that there is a possibility that you could die. You are really put off by everything the guy does during the consultation.

Are you going to base your decision of who performs your surgery based solely on these encounters? Do you trust your feelings and emotions to make a decision? Or, are you going to look at the history of their outcomes when performing the same surgeries.

If the cantankerous doc that you despised and scared you to death had a success rate of 72% in this difficult surgery and the personable doc that you had an awesomely good feeling about that pumped you full of hope had a success rate of 20% when performing the same surgery, who would you allow to perform your surgery? Does history matter in this case?

I used a radical example to prove a point. If you are as passionate about UT and trying to get others to respect everything and everyone around the program, you must be very serious about UT. Not life and death serious, but serious nonetheless. Anyone with half a brain would go with the old fart doc in my analogy. Why would you let history over emotion and respect dictate your decision in this case and not other circumstances? If using history is good enough of a guide to make a life and death decision, surely it's good enough to form an opinion on a football coach. BTW, Dooley has had 4 losing seasons out of 5. That's a 20% success rate- using a very generic definition of success.
 
#388
#388
Spartacavolus said:
That's incorrect. You didn't get my point again if that's what you think. Remembering the past and learning from it is the opposite of getting stuck on the past and not focusing on the present and future. The exact opposite.
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You're right. I didn't and still don't get your point. The very best indicator of future performance is past performances. It's not a guarantee, but nothing in life is guaranteed.
 
#389
#389
DarthVisor said:
I wish we still had Brad Scott. He was a nice guy. Spurrier is an arsehole.
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SEC Record 2005-2009:
18-22

Bowl Record 2005-2009:
1-3

While I am not saying that Dooley is anywhere on the level of Spurrier, Dooley does deserve this next year. Someone saying that they know for a fact he will fail next year sounds just as absurd as saying he will without-a-doubt succeed.
 
#390
#390
JayVols said:
You're right. I didn't and still don't get your point. The very best indicator of future performance is past performances. It's not a guarantee, but nothing in life is guaranteed.
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So our Ky game this year will probably look like last year.

Got it.
 
#393
#393
slh1089 said:
SEC Record 2005-2009:
18-22

Bowl Record 2005-2009:
1-3

While I am not saying that Dooley is anywhere on the level of Spurrier, Dooley does deserve this next year. Someone saying that they know for a fact he will fail next year sounds just as absurd as saying he will without-a-doubt succeed.
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He does have this year. I've never disputed that. I also have never claimed it was a for sure fact that he will fail. I have said that given his history, he very well could fail. But with the talent he has, he should have some measure of success. If he doesn't, he just flat sucks. The big question is how much success does he need to have to change people's minds about him. 6, 7, or even 8 wins doesn't make me change my mind given the weapons he has, but that's just me. Each person has their own standards. Ultimately, it boils down to whether or not he wins enough to convince the big time boosters that he is a winner along with Dave Hart.
 
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#394
#394
Spartacavolus said:
How does one not understand the point above?
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Probably the same way you totally missed the bus on this post of mine:

You're right. I didn't and still don't get your point. The very best indicator of future performance is past performances. It's not a guarantee, but nothing in life is guaranteed.
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By making this reply:

Spartacavolus said:
So our Ky game this year will probably look like last year.

Got it.
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We live in 2 completely seperate worlds.
 
#396
#396
JayVols said:
He does have this year. I've never disputed that. I also have never claimed it was a for sure fact that he will fail. I have said that given his history, he very well could fail. But with the talent he has, he should have some measure of success. If he doesn't, he just flat sucks. The big question is how much success does he need to have to change people's minds about him. 6, 7, or even 8 wins doesn't make me change my mind given the weapons he has, but that's just me. Each person has their own standards. Ultimately, it boils down to whether or not he wins enough to convince the big time boosters that he is a winner along with Dave Hart.
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I agree for the most part. The only part I am nt sure on is whether you can set a certain number as a goal. The only thing that kind of sticks out to me is that many on here put anyone who doesn't think Dooley is already failure as a "sunshine pumper" or whatever new term being use (haven't been to the FF in awhile). Yes, he has not had success, but there have been extenuating circumstances and, I admit, poor coaching. However, people learn, grow, and get the tools around them that they think will get the job done. I feel Dooley has finally got most of that around him and expect to see the benefits of that this coming year. I wouldn't call that a sunshine pumper stance.
 
#397
#397
Spartacavolus said:
I don't argue that. I argue the following:

-I argue that calling him a loser, clown, etc is disrespectful to the HC of our University, to the program and University.
-I argue that guaranteeing future success or failure on the past is foolish
-I argue that constant negativity and rehashing the negative only bears the fruit of arguments, brings nothing positive to the table just a few weeks prior to kickoff, and is an odd way to show support, and all posters here insist they support the current coach.
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Well said.

I also think that if Bray and Hunter don't get hurt then Dooley wouldn't be receiving near the grief and other bullsh*t he has received. Does he deserve criticism for the way the team played in the loss to Ky? Hell yeah, but UT was a shell of itself by the time that game rolled around. Hell, we were a shell of ourselves just talent wise for the last 2 years to begin with. Any injuries to key players would be crippling and we had them (Bray, Hunter, Lathers, etc).

Let's see how this year plays out and then we can get a better gauge on what kind of coach Dooley is with a somewhat full roster. Our Sr class will still be thin and not that talented and the Jr class will have to take up most of the slack.
 
#398
#398
"I didn't and still don't get your point" was your quote. I don't believe I missed the bus on that post. It's pretty self explanatory and direct. You evidently don't recognize the position I explained, or you wouldn't say you don't understand.

And to your point about history being the greatest indicator of future performance, I just disagree with that generalization. In many instances it may be a great indicator, and in many instances it means absolutely nothing. For every example where history proves to repeat, there is one where it doesn't. If that's not the world you live in, then we are in different worlds.
 
#399
#399
JayVols said:
He does have this year. I've never disputed that. I also have never claimed it was a for sure fact that he will fail. I have said that given his history, he very well could fail. But with the talent he has, he should have some measure of success. If he doesn't, he just flat sucks. The big question is how much success does he need to have to change people's minds about him. 6, 7, or even 8 wins doesn't make me change my mind given the weapons he has, but that's just me. Each person has their own standards. Ultimately, it boils down to whether or not he wins enough to convince the big time boosters that he is a winner along with Dave Hart.
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Dooley has never had the talent at any juncture at La Tech or UT like he has this year either. A number of people keep forgetting how bad our talent has been for the last 2 years. Our Sr class still isn't up to par to what it should be but we should have enough depth in the other three classes to fill that void hopefully.
 
#400
#400
slh1089 said:
SEC Record 2005-2009:
18-22

Bowl Record 2005-2009:
1-3

While I am not saying that Dooley is anywhere on the level of Spurrier, Dooley does deserve this next year. Someone saying that they know for a fact he will fail next year sounds just as absurd as saying he will without-a-doubt succeed.
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I'm not saying he doesn't, and I'm not saying he will fail. I suspect that he will fail, but I could see UT winning nine games this year and saving his job for another year. Even if he manages to win nine or ten, I won't be sold.
 
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