Doyel says Kiffin not a jerk

#426
#426
OrangeBalls said:
You're basing Dooley's record on 3 years at La Tech and 2 years at UT where they've had one of their thinnest and least talented rosters in the history of their program? Good Lord.
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See my post on improvment.

If you suck at your job for 4 out of 5 years regardless of situation, would you be given glowing praise? Would you even be retained? Doubtful.
 
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#427
#427
Spartacavolus said:
Went to OT at ky in '09.

Iirc, if they wouldn't have stopped the wildcat, we would have lost.
I could be wrong about that. Can't remember which year that was, but it was recent. Whomever was coaching ky that year blew it.
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I tend to agree with this. No way would I have gone away from the wildcat. If fairness, KY was still KY, but they were more talented in '09 and '10 than they were in '11. Actually, it's not even close.
 
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#428
#428
IMO no mystery why Kiffin left.
It's easier to win in the Pac-10 then in the SEC, easier to recruit in Southern California then East Tennessee and more to do in LA then in Knoxville.
Kiffin is an opportunist like most coaches and he wouldn't pass that up.
Kiffin saying it is his dream job, sounds a lot better.

The shaft our program was worse because our AD gave himself a deadline and when he struggled in the coaching search hired a a struggling coach from the WAC.
 
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#429
#429
Spartacavolus said:
And since history is a good judge of the future, by your stance, UK will suck again (probably accurate judge), and UT will have attitude, hustle and heart issues (inaccurate, imo).

However, I do see your stance. If I thought it was going to happen again just as it happened last year, I'd have little hope as well.
When I look at everything, I have a hard time thinking last year will repeat itself. If I thought that, I wouldn't want to watch a game this year.
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so how did your stance work for you when Fulmer, Buzz Peterson, and Wade Houston were coaches at UT?
 
#434
#434
JayVols said:
I didn't say that at all. I said it takes no talent to hustle. I was trying to say that I wasn't necessarily looking for us to set the world on fire with our sheer natural ability. I do expect the lesser talented players to improve and become more able to do their job through hard work, utilizing proper technique, making smarter decisions, and aggressiveness. We didn't improve at an adequate level as the season progressed. In fact, there's some pretty damning evidence that we regressed in several areas.

So again, I wasn't referencing high talent level. In fact I was referring to the fact that we weren't blessed with awe inspiring talent, and the improvment or rather lack thereof based on the talent level we were at last year.
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And a lot of that has to do with them having to play freshmen and sophomores all over the field and having to play a bunch of guys that wouldn't otherwise even see the field. How many of those players on that roster would've even seen the field in the 90's with the talent we had? Very few. Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you try. If you don't have any talent, it doesn't matter going up against elite athletes in the SEC because they'll make you look foolish.
 
#435
#435
JayVols said:
See my post on improvment.

If you suck at your job for 4 out of 5 years regardless of situation, would you be given glowing praise? Would you even be retained? Doubtful.
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And if you inherited a bunch of people that were slackers and loafers then you aren't going to do that well unless you can bring in your own people. Except Dooley couldn't afford to run off (fire in you world) many more players because too many had already left due to the two coaching changes. You seem to have trouble grasping that simple concept.

If you're going to judge a coach on his merits, at least judge him fairly. You're picking out a school like La Tech that might have one decent season every 10 years if they're lucky. Then you're picking out two of the worst years in the history of UT football talent wise after the roster had been gutted. There was a reason not many people were knocking on Hammy's door wanting the job. They knew it was a dumpster fire.

At least wait until he has a full roster of his own guys. The Sr class this year will be thin yet again. Only a few guys from that class will be drafted. I expect at least 8 wins this year. If he doesn't get that and the team doesn't show improvement then I'll be ready for a change.
 
#436
#436
OrangeBalls said:
And a lot of that has to do with them having to play freshmen and sophomores all over the field and having to play a bunch of guys that wouldn't otherwise even see the field. How many of those players on that roster would've even seen the field in the 90's with the talent we had? Very few. Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you try. If you don't have any talent, it doesn't matter going up against elite athletes in the SEC because they'll make you look foolish.
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kentucky was playing their 3rd string QB.
 
#437
#437
OrangeBalls said:
And a lot of that has to do with them having to play freshmen and sophomores all over the field and having to play a bunch of guys that wouldn't otherwise even see the field. How many of those players on that roster would've even seen the field in the 90's with the talent we had? Very few. Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you try. If you don't have any talent, it doesn't matter going up against elite athletes in the SEC because they'll make you look foolish.
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You show me someone that doesn't think effort and how hard you try in life matters, and I'll show you a loser.

Dooley walked into a deck stacked against him, and the fans with any football IQ knows that talent level isn't at the standards of a Tennessee football team. The issue that we have is watching a team half-assing it out on the field playing with no pride or heart.
 
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#438
#438
JayVols said:
I tend to agree with this. No way would I have gone away from the wildcat. If fairness, KY was still KY, but they were more talented in '09 and '10 than they were in '11. Actually, it's not even close.
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And UT barely beat them in 1995 and 2001 with much, much better talent than what the talent discrepancy was last year. Ky was 4-7 in 1995 and a woeful 2-9 in 2001. UT was 11-1 and 11-2 and one game away from playing in the national title game both years.

We were loaded in 2001 and beat a 2-9 team only 38-35. Hell, we practically had a NFL team with the number of players drafted and barely beat them with Manning at QB in 1995 and had to mount a rally to do that. So, we've been lucky on more than one occasion to beat bad Ky teams. Talent and depth usually prevailed. We didn't have much of either last year.
 
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#440
#440
Vol2424 said:
He told players that were already here as a part of the 2010 class NOT to go to class if they wanted to join them at USC. He told them they all had an offer. He called one of the EEs and I believe Douglas grabbed the phone and put it on speaker for all of the team to hear. It wasn't as classy as Groves is making it sound. He also did it from a phone being paid for by Tennessee. I had no problem with him leaving for his dream job. This I had a problem with. It's also something they thought would go without notice. Ed was questioned about it when he got to SC and he had no excuse or answer for it. He knew it was wrong , but this is Coach O we are talking about. To hell with ethics.
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I can understand the issue with actively recruiting them, but it was absolutely the right thing to do to let them know their options.
 
#441
#441
Volst53 said:
You show me someone that doesn't think effort and how hard you try in life matters, and I'll show you a loser.

Dooley walked into a deck stacked against him, and the fans with any football IQ knows that talent level isn't at the standards of a Tennessee football team. The issue that we have is watching a team half-assing it out on the field playing with no pride or heart.
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No one said effort and hard work doesn't matter, but it didn't matter how hard we played against a team like Ark. We were outmanned and outclassed in every spot on the field and the team got down on itself and quit. The two games that I saw quit in the team was in the Ark and Ky games. Chalk that up to a lot of things, but I'd say most of that was youth and inexperience and an obvious fraction in the team by then. Yet, they came back and played a pretty good game against Vandy the next week with a QB coming off a broken thumb. Teams with a lot of youth are going to have their ups and downs. They aren't as mentally tough as Jr's and Sr's.

If it happens with the team this year, then Dooley has a problem because 3/4's of this roster is his and the Jr class should have enough leaders along with Sr guys like Lathers to rally the troops.
 
#442
#442
OrangeBalls said:
No one said effort and hard work doesn't matter, but it didn't matter how hard we played against a team like Ark. We were outmanned and outclassed in every spot on the field and the team got down on itself and quit. The two games that I saw quit in the team was in the Ark and Ky games. Chalk that up to a lot of things, but I'd say most of that was youth and inexperience and an obvious fraction in the team by then. Yet, they came back and played a pretty good game against Vandy the next week with a QB coming off a broken thumb. Teams with a lot of youth are going to have their ups and downs. They aren't as mentally tough as Jr's and Sr's.

If it happens with the team this year, then Dooley has a problem because 3/4's of this roster is his and the Jr class should have enough leaders along with Sr guys like Lathers to rally the troops.
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Learning how to quit is a habit. You don't first do it in games. You get away with it in the classroom and the practice field first.
 
#444
#444
OrangeBalls said:
And UT barely beat them in 1995 and 2001 with much, much better talent than what the talent discrepancy was last year. Ky was 4-7 in 1995 and a woeful 2-9 in 2001. UT was 11-1 and 11-2 and one game away from playing in the national title game both years.

We were loaded in 2001 and beat a 2-9 team only 38-35. Hell, we practically had a NFL team with the number of players drafted and barely beat them with Manning at QB in 1995 and had to mount a rally to do that. So, we've been lucky on more than one occasion to beat bad Ky teams. Talent and depth usually prevailed. We didn't have much of either last year.
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So, talent and depth rather than a lack of decent coaching and ability to gameplan to stop a WR at QB was why UK beat UT last year? Please.
 
#445
#445
OrangeBalls said:
What was the excuse in 1995 and 2001 when we were one game away from playing for a national title and struggling to beat a 4-7 and 2-9 team?
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You're equating a loss that ended a 20+ game winning streak vs UK to a) a game UT struggled to win but still won and b) a loss in the SEC game that would have put UT in the NC game?
 
#447
#447
tvolsfan said:
I can understand the issue with actively recruiting them, but it was absolutely the right thing to do to let them know their options.
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Did you even read the articles? Calling players on campus and telling them not to go to class was the right thing? As much as you "think" it was "absolutely" the right thing , his actions were in USC's best interest. Brandon Willis and his family left town as soon as this happend. And Thompkins who never ended up here had to sit a year because of the coaching change. All of the players had to sit if they left. I'm not sure Coach O knew this , but I really doubt he cared as long as he kept some of the players he spent time recruiting. Not to mention the amount of money Tennessee spent paying for them to fly around the country to do so. According to some of you , it seems that if the last staff slapped your mother , it would somehow be her fault. Just Kiffin and company "absolutely" doing the right thing.
 
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#448
#448
Volst53 said:
Learning how to quit is a habit. You don't first do it in games. You get away with it in the classroom and the practice field first.
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I don't disagree. I think a lot of last year's problems were chemistry and youth related. If we see some of the same signs this year then there's a problem.
 
#449
#449
DarthVisor said:
So, talent and depth rather than a lack of decent coaching and ability to gameplan to stop a WR at QB was why UK beat UT last year? Please.
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No, they all factored in to not beating a horrible team. You think UT was that good? Uh, no.

Yeah, they should've beaten a horrible Ky team, but as I've said before, we've had much better teams in the past that barely beat horrible Ky teams when the talent discrepancy was even worse.
 
#450
#450
OrangeBalls said:
And a lot of that has to do with them having to play freshmen and sophomores all over the field and having to play a bunch of guys that wouldn't otherwise even see the field. How many of those players on that roster would've even seen the field in the 90's with the talent we had? Very few. Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you try. If you don't have any talent, it doesn't matter going up against elite athletes in the SEC because they'll make you look foolish.
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I'm not following. Are you saying that freshmen and sophomores can't improve throughout the season? Improvement from where one starts has nothing to do with talent or your competition.
 
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