Doyel says Kiffin not a jerk

#403
#403
Spartacavolus said:
"I didn't and still don't get your point" was your quote. I don't believe I missed the bus on that post. It's pretty self explanatory and direct. You evidently don't recognize the position I explained, or you wouldn't say you don't understand.

And to your point about history being the greatest indicator of future performance, I just disagree with that generalization. In many instances it may be a great indicator, and in many instances it means absolutely nothing. For every example where history proves to repeat, there is one where it doesn't. If that's not the world you live in, then we are in different worlds.
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As I said, different worlds
 
#404
#404
OrangeBalls said:
Dooley has never had the talent at any juncture at La Tech or UT like he has this year either. A number of people keep forgetting how bad our talent has been for the last 2 years. Our Sr class still isn't up to par to what it should be but we should have enough depth in the other three classes to fill that void hopefully.
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It takes zero talent to hustle.

Talent has nothing to do with improving, being disciplined, hustling, not quitting, etc. I could have handled having a losing season if the players were improving and laying it on the line. The opposite happened last year. The no talent argument is a crutch and a cop out excuse to defect blame for the lack of improvement in the above areas I mentioned. Not surprising. Dooley is the king of excuses. I don't care if we are playing with D-III level players. I expect to see progress and improvement in all areas not laying down and quitting in the last game of the season with a bowl game and the chance for a winning season on the line.

"The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have."- Vince Lombardi

That quote has nothing to do with talent.
 
#407
#407
JayVols said:
They essentially were last year, for different reasons though.

UK just plain sucked.
UT had attitude, hustle, and heart issues.
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And since history is a good judge of the future, by your stance, UK will suck again (probably accurate judge), and UT will have attitude, hustle and heart issues (inaccurate, imo).

However, I do see your stance. If I thought it was going to happen again just as it happened last year, I'd have little hope as well.
When I look at everything, I have a hard time thinking last year will repeat itself. If I thought that, I wouldn't want to watch a game this year.
 
#408
#408
Spartacavolus said:
And since history is a good judge of the future, by your stance, UK will suck again (probably accurate judge), and UT will have attitude, hustle and heart issues (inaccurate, imo).

However, I do see your stance. If I thought it was going to happen again just as it happened last year, I'd have little hope as well.
When I look at everything, I have a hard time thinking last year will repeat itself. If I thought that, I wouldn't want to watch a game this year.
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Don't worry sparty. DD has 8 easy wins this year so you will get to claim he righted the ship.
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#409
#409
VolBeef88 said:
Don't worry sparty. DD has 8 easy wins this year so you will get to claim he righted the ship.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Haven't ever said that either. Nice try.

I want to see how the team plays, then form an opinion on our future. If he wins 8 and we look terrible, I'm for whatever needs to be done. If he wins 8 and we look dramatically improved, but we lose some heartbreakers or get screwed by a call in the last seconds, a decision shouldn't be based on a number. Unless, that is, its so low again that it leaves no option.
 
#410
#410
Spartacavolus said:
And since history is a good judge of the future, by your stance, UK will suck again (probably accurate judge), and UT will have attitude, hustle and heart issues (inaccurate, imo).

However, I do see your stance. If I thought it was going to happen again just as it happened last year, I'd have little hope as well.
When I look at everything, I have a hard time thinking last year will repeat itself. If I thought that, I wouldn't want to watch a game this year.
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Nice try at smarminess, but you are completely off the mark once again.

UT has a well documented history of winning as a program. Derek Dooley has a well documented history of not winning as a head coach.
 
#411
#411
Spartacavolus said:
Haven't ever said that either. Nice try.

I want to see how the team plays, then form an opinion on our future. If he wins 8 and we look terrible, I'm for whatever needs to be done. If he wins 8 and we look dramatically improved, but we lose some heartbreakers or get screwed by a call in the last seconds, a decision shouldn't be based on a number. Unless, that is, its so low again that it leaves no option.
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You can't make an accurate judgement on our future after we play games using how we played as a guide. Those games are history. You must always look to the present and future- your words.
 
#412
#412
JayVols said:
You can't make an accurate judgement on our future after we play games using how we played as a guide. Those games are history. You must always look to the present and future- your words.
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you've got issues man. You're picking a fight again and talking nonsense. You say history is the best indicator, but when I ask a simple question about last years ky game v this years game being a repeat of history, you resort to erratic bs and attacks.

Not going to fulfill your need tonight. Find somebody else.
 
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#413
#413
Spartacavolus said:
Haven't ever said that either. Nice try.

I want to see how the team plays, then form an opinion on our future. If he wins 8 and we look terrible, I'm for whatever needs to be done. If he wins 8 and we look dramatically improved, but we lose some heartbreakers or get screwed by a call in the last seconds, a decision shouldn't be based on a number. Unless, that is, its so low again that it leaves no option.
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Anything less than 8 wins will be a bad season. 8 wins with this schedule is like 6 wins from last years schedule.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#415
#415
Spartacavolus said:
you've got issues man. Your picking a fight again and talking nonsense. You say history is the best indicator, but when I ask a simple question about last years ky game v this years game being a repeat of history, you resort to erratic bs and attacks.

Not going to fulfill your need tonight. Find somebody else.
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WTH?

Dude, you made a smartass answer.
Spartacavolus said:
And since history is a good judge of the future, by your stance, UK will suck again (probably accurate judge), and UT will have attitude, hustle and heart issues (inaccurate, imo).

However, I do see your stance. If I thought it was going to happen again just as it happened last year, I'd have little hope as well.
When I look at everything, I have a hard time thinking last year will repeat itself. If I thought that, I wouldn't want to watch a game this year.
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I answered in kind.

JayVols said:
You can't make an accurate judgement on our future after we play games using how we played as a guide. Those games are history. You must always look to the present and future- your words.
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You are another level of aloof, and love to play the victim card. Like you told me: if you don't want me to respond in a smartass manner, don't give me a smartass comment first. Then, you act all victimized.....smh.

So which answer was BS and erratic?
Was it that UT has a well documented history of winning?
Or, was it Dooley has a well documented history of losing as a HC?
What is your proof that these statements are BS and/or erratic?
 
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#416
#416
JayVols said:
It takes zero talent to hustle.

Talent has nothing to do with improving, being disciplined, hustling, not quitting, etc. I could have handled having a losing season if the players were improving and laying it on the line. The opposite happened last year. The no talent argument is a crutch and a cop out excuse to defect blame for the lack of improvement in the above areas I mentioned. Not surprising. Dooley is the king of excuses. I don't care if we are playing with D-III level players. I expect to see progress and improvement in all areas not laying down and quitting in the last game of the season with a bowl game and the chance for a winning season on the line.

"The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have."- Vince Lombardi

That quote has nothing to do with talent.
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There were hustle issues in the last game, but not every player had that issue. Why did the team come out and play one of its better games against Vandy and then lay an egg against a horrible Ky team the next week? I'd say some of that had to do with inexperience, lack of depth and the opponent.

And if you don't think talent has anything to do with how a team performs, check the last 30+ years of the NFL draft and look at what UT players have been drafted and how the team performed. There is usual a direct correlation there.

The first UT player drafted this year was Malik Jackson in the 5th round with pick 137. The last time a UT player was taken first that late was 1975. I'd say talent has a helluva lot to do with how a team is going to perform. Hell, check Saban's record at Michigan St. You have to have talent to succeed especially in the SEC.

UT had sleptwalk through a number of Ky games in the past with far superior talent. Last year UT's talent wasn't that much better. Depth and talent usually always won out. This time UT didn't have the depth or talent for their ineptitude last year.
 
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#417
#417
JayVols said:
Nice try at smarminess, but you are completely off the mark once again.

UT has a well documented history of winning as a program. Derek Dooley has a well documented history of not winning as a head coach.
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You're basing Dooley's record on 3 years at La Tech and 2 years at UT where they've had one of their thinnest and least talented rosters in the history of their program? Good Lord.
 
#418
#418
Went to OT at ky in '09.

Iirc, if they wouldn't have stopped the wildcat, we would have lost.
I could be wrong about that. Can't remember which year that was, but it was recent. Whomever was coaching ky that year blew it.
 
#419
#419
Spartacavolus said:
Went to OT at ky in '09.

Iirc, if they wouldn't have stopped the wildcat, we would have lost.
I could be wrong about that. Can't remember which year that was, but it was recent. Whomever was coaching ky that year blew it.
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In 2007, UT won 52-50 in OT. Ky found a way to lose that game yet again. In 2009, Kiffin and UT barely won 30-24 in OT with much, much better talent than what Dooley has had the last 2 years.

In 1995, UT had to mount a rally with Peyton Manning at QB and a roster stacked with practically a NFL team to win 34-31. Ky went 4-7 that year.
 
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#421
#421
StoVol said:
Kiff and Orgeron called our recruits and told them not to go to class. In pursuit of his dream job he tried to sabotage a former employer. That's all I need to know about the man.
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It would have been wrong to not inform the players about the situation.
 
#422
#422
justingroves said:
Not entirely true.

The calls did happen, but it was to let them know their options if they didn't want to be there under a new staff.
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I don't see how anyone can really have an issue with that. It would have been wrong not to inform the recruits.
 
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#423
#423
tvolsfan said:
I don't see how anyone can really have an issue with that. It would have been wrong not to inform the recruits.
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He told players that were already here as a part of the 2010 class NOT to go to class if they wanted to join them at USC. He told them they all had an offer. He called one of the EEs and I believe Douglas grabbed the phone and put it on speaker for all of the team to hear. It wasn't as classy as Groves is making it sound. He also did it from a phone being paid for by Tennessee. I had no problem with him leaving for his dream job. This I had a problem with. It's also something they thought would go without notice. Ed was questioned about it when he got to SC and he had no excuse or answer for it. He knew it was wrong , but this is Coach O we are talking about. To hell with ethics.
 
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#424
#424
Lane Kiffin had just finished discussing the "magnifying glass" of operating in the Southeastern Conference, and how it had taught him the importance of "complete attention on the rules."

Then came a question about one of the assistant coaches who had come with him, and whether Ed Orgeron had initiated phone calls to players who had been recruited to Tennessee.



"I don't know that that's accurate. . . . I don't believe that has happened," Kiffin said Wednesday evening, just after he was introduced as USC's new head football coach. "I've told [Tennessee Athletic Director] Mike Hamilton I will not recruit the players that go there unless they call me."

It was more a question of ethics than of NCAA rules. Although this is a mandated "dead period" for college recruiting -- four days when, as notices taped all around USC's Heritage Hall explained, face-to-face visits are prohibited and contact is limited -- prospects are allowed to receive one phone call from each school.

Kiffin, noting that he had been gathering his family and been on a plane a good chunk of the day, promised he'd check into it, though -- a pledge that soon became moot.

Off to the side a few minutes after Kiffin finished speaking, Orgeron, after much prodding, told reporters that he had indeed initiated phone calls to some of the 26 Tennessee recruits he and Kiffin had received commitments from.

"Yes, I did call recruits to clear up any questions they had," Orgeron said without identifying the players and declining to answer how many he reached. "In my knowledge, I followed the rules correctly."

However, there were also reports that Orgeron encouraged recruits who had signed up for spring semester courses at Tennessee not to attend their first classes this week.

NCAA spokeswoman Stacey Osburn said rules stipulate that "an institution cannot contact a student-athlete enrolled at another institution without permission from the current school. A currently enrolled student-athlete who transfers must sit out a year before becoming eligible to compete. An enrolled student-athlete is one who is officially registered and enrolled in a minimum, full-time program of studies in any quarter or semester of an academic year, as certified by the registrar or admissions office, provided the student was present at the institution on the opening day of classes."

Osburn also said the NCAA may choose to work with USC and Tennessee to gather "relevant fact and data" regarding Orgeron's contact.

Asked if he advised Tennessee recruits to not attend classes Wednesday so they wouldn't face transfer rules, Orgeron said, "I'm not going to get into that."

I make tremendously strong ties with families in recruiting," he added. "I always try to guide them in the right direction and provide information to them to help some young men who are wondering, 'Coach, what can I do? What are my options?'


USC assistant called Tennessee recruits - Los Angeles Times




And then this ....


Consider this scene: While Lane Kiffin attempted to tell the Tennessee players that he was no longer going to be their coach in a meeting that nearly got out of hand, Kiffin's recruiting coordinator, Ed Orgeron, was calling some of those same players -- mid-term freshmen who'd yet to enroll -- and trying to convince them not to enroll and instead follow Kiffin and Orgeron to Southern California.

Rising sophomore defensive lineman Marlon Walls said he overheard Orgeron making his USC pitch to some of the incoming Tennessee freshmen while many of them still weren't completely sure what was going on.

Afterward, Orgeron's Tennessee-issued cell phone was turned off.


"We told them [the freshmen] in the meeting that it's their option," Walls told Volquest.com. "If they want to go, go. But we're a family here. You don't sign with no school for no coach. And just like they left us, they'll leave you all too. ... And we heard Coach O in the background calling enrollees and telling them that they got an offer to USC. He couldn't even address us. He couldn't even call us first.

"Freshmen put [Orgeron] on speakerphone. I called him five times, and he wouldn't pick up. But he's calling them. They put him on speakerphone and said all of them got offers to USC."
Walls called Kiffin a "fake guy" and added: "We bought into his system and we bought into what he was telling us to do, and for him to leave us like that, it just shows you what kind of man he is, shows you his character. We're still going to be Tennessee."

Kiffin finally left the football complex just before midnight and did so with a police escort

Orgeron trying to steer recruits to USC - College Football Nation Blog - ESPN
 
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#425
#425
OrangeBalls said:
There were hustle issues in the last game, but not every player had that issue. Why did the team come out and play one of its better games against Vandy and then lay an egg against a horrible Ky team the next week? I'd say some of that had to do with inexperience, lack of depth and the opponent.

And if you don't think talent has anything to do with how a team performs, check the last 30+ years of the NFL draft and look at what UT players have been drafted and how the team performed. There is usual a direct correlation there.

The first UT player drafted this year was Malik Jackson in the 5th round with pick 137. The last time a UT player was taken first that late was 1975. I'd say talent has a helluva lot to do with how a team is going to perform. Hell, check Saban's record at Michigan St. You have to have talent to succeed especially in the SEC.

UT had sleptwalk through a number of Ky games in the past with far superior talent. Last year UT's talent wasn't that much better. Depth and talent usually always won out. This time UT didn't have the depth or talent for their ineptitude last year.
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I didn't say that at all. I said it takes no talent to hustle. I was trying to say that I wasn't necessarily looking for us to set the world on fire with our sheer natural ability. I do expect the lesser talented players to improve and become more able to do their job through hard work, utilizing proper technique, making smarter decisions, and aggressiveness. We didn't improve at an adequate level as the season progressed. In fact, there's some pretty damning evidence that we regressed in several areas.

So again, I wasn't referencing high talent level. In fact I was referring to the fact that we weren't blessed with awe inspiring talent, and the improvment or rather lack thereof based on the talent level we were at last year.
 
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