Email from Jimmy Cheek

[KBVol]

Dave Hart actually said that Susan Martin was a problem for him? Really? You know I remember listening to that press conference, but I don't recall ever hearing that. Please show me where he said that.

But hey, if some guys on the radio say it enough, I guess that it must be true. Who needs any actual facts or evidence.

Yeah, you're right. It's all a non issue. No problems, nothing to see or be concerned with. None of those guys have any credibility and Susan's the best. My bad for responding to someone else's post and disturbing you.

Edit: btw, I never mentioned Susan's name, never said anyone else did either. Just said that the cooperation between academic side and athletic dept deteriorated over the last 12-15 years due to policies put in place, that it has had a negative effect on the football program and that it has been discussed often as a problem that needs to be fixed. You got all offended on Susan's behalf and took it from there. Whatever.

 

[KBVol]

Dave Hart actually said that Susan Martin was a problem for him? Really? You know I remember listening to that press conference, but I don't recall ever hearing that. Please show me where he said that.

But hey, if some guys on the radio say it enough, I guess that it must be true. Who needs any actual facts or evidence.

I never said, not once, that Hart or anybody has mention Susan's name. I simply posted information from sources that i listen to about UT football that I deem credible. You clearly don't think theyre credible ... whatever, so be it. So, if I give you specific evidence from Dave Hart's press conference announcing Dooley's firing, would that help you? I'm guessing no but I'll do it anyway.

Go to Youtube, search "Dave Hart Addresses Tennessee Football Future". It's the teleconference from 11/18/12. It's approximately 30 minutes. At the 7:25 mark a reporter says "you said that Derek inherited a very difficult environment...." and then asks Hart to elaborate on that. Hart then discusses the lack of stability since 2000 with the Program and the University's 12 different presidents and how they will have 4 coaches in 6 years with the next hire.

Then, at the 8:05 mark he says "we have challenges, we have some competitive disadvantages that have been identified that everyone on our campus is working to overcome together. WE HAVE SOME ACADEMIC COMPETITIVE DISADVANTAGES THAT WE'RE ELIMINATING.... THESE ARE ALL HISTORIC IN NATURE, THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR SOME TIME AND WE'RE NOW BEGINNING TO ADDRESS AND RECTIFY SOME OF THOSE DISADVANTAGES THAT ARE REAL IN NATURE."

That was what I referenced in my previous post that Coach Matthews, Brent Hubbs, Erik Ainge, Wes Rucker, etc have all commented on/ discussed over the last 6-8 months regarding the lack of academic/athletic dept cooperation and some of the policies put in place that have put our program, as our Athletic Director Dave Hart put it, at an academic competitive disadvantage.

 

[oregonvol]

Yeah, you're right. It's all a non issue. No problems, nothing to see or be concerned with. None of those guys have any credibility and Susan's the best. My bad for responding to someone else's post and disturbing you.

Edit: btw, I never mentioned Susan's name, never said anyone else did either. Just said that the cooperation between academic side and athletic dept deteriorated over the last 12-15 years due to policies put in place, that it has had a negative effect on the football program and that it has been discussed often as a problem that needs to be fixed. You got all offended on Susan's behalf and took it from there. Whatever.

Wow man, I can't figure out what you love more, your strawman arguments, your rumors, or your hearsay.

It's a bit disingenuous, don't you think, when you come into a thread about Susan Martin and you post your response to a quote about Susan Martin and then you pretend you never said anything about Susan Martin.

All I am asking for is some basic facts, because I want to understand how a provost, whose job has nothing to do with athletics, is at fault for the numerous failures of the athletics department (and even failures that occurred before she got the job). It's really an amazing story, I'd imagine. Susan Martin must possess some strange supernatural powers to be able to control the Chancellor and the AD like that. But instead, all I ever get is "Well so and so says it's true" or some odd story about all these athletes that can't get into school (odd because none of these athletes ever seem to have names).

 

[KBVol]

Wow man, I can't figure out what you love more, your strawman arguments, your rumors, or your hearsay.

It's a bit disingenuous, don't you think, when you come into a thread about Susan Martin and you post your response to a quote about Susan Martin and then you pretend you never said anything about Susan Martin.

All I am asking for is some basic facts, because I want to understand how a provost, whose job has nothing to do with athletics, is at fault for the numerous failures of the athletics department (and even failures that occurred before she got the job). It's really an amazing story, I'd imagine. Susan Martin must possess some strange supernatural powers to be able to control the Chancellor and the AD like that. But instead, all I ever get is "Well so and so says it's true" or some odd story about all these athletes that can't get into school (odd because none of these athletes ever seem to have names).

You clearly can't read. Or comprehend. This thread started with someone mentioning Susan Martin and then moved onto the overall academic climate and changes that have been made that have potentially hurt the athletic dept. A poster mentioned that and that Coach Matthews has expressed concerns about it. I then commented on those concerns that I have heard him and several other people close to the program have discussed, which I made very clear.

You, in all you glorious condescension, jumped in flaming as usual without even knowing what you were aiming at. I have been consistent, talking not about Susan "f-ing" Martin, but about the overall academic competitive disadvantages that Dave Hart said exists... nothing more.

Starting to think you are Susan Martin.

Btw, I'm not sure that Doug Matthews has ever mentioned your name Susan. He laments the fact that Chancellor Cheek is involved in the athletic department and has to divide his loyalties between academics and athletics rather than the AD just dealing with the President... which is the way it used to be. Not that you know or can understand what the hell I'm writing about.

 

[BigZiti09]

I love it when people act like this is some kind of conspiracy created by Basilio even though Fulmer has aluded to it, Hubbs and Rucker have both went on record acknowledging that the academic side at UT is holding back the athletic side.

 

[sanddune50]

Yeah, you're right. It's all a non issue. No problems, nothing to see or be concerned with. None of those guys have any credibility and Susan's the best. My bad for responding to someone else's post and disturbing you.

Edit: btw, I never mentioned Susan's name, never said anyone else did either. Just said that the cooperation between academic side and athletic dept deteriorated over the last 12-15 years due to policies put in place, that it has had a negative effect on the football program and that it has been discussed often as a problem that needs to be fixed. You got all offended on Susan's behalf and took it from there. Whatever.

Makes a person wonder why oregonvol got all upset and quickly came to her aid. Susan Martin have any kids?

 

[Weee'rre Baaccckk]

I'll donate a dollar for everytime Cheek picks his nose on television. As of now, I owe $1

On a more serious note, I'll donate $20 (college budget, don't hate)

 

[sanddune50]

You clearly can't read. Or comprehend. This thread started with someone mentioning Susan Martin and then moved onto the overall academic climate and changes that have been made that have potentially hurt the athletic dept. A poster mentioned that and that Coach Matthews has expressed concerns about it. I then commented on those concerns that I have heard him and several other people close to the program have discussed, which I made very clear.

You, in all you glorious condescension, jumped in flaming as usual without even knowing what you were aiming at. I have been consistent, talking not about Susan "f-ing" Martin, but about the overall academic competitive disadvantages that Dave Hart said exists... nothing more.

Starting to think you are Susan Martin.

Btw, I'm not sure that Doug Matthews has ever mentioned your name Susan. He laments the fact that Chancellor Cheek is involved in the athletic department and has to divide his loyalties between academics and athletics rather than the AD just dealing with the President... which is the way it used to be. Not that you know or can understand what the hell I'm writing about.

 

[Weee'rre Baaccckk]

Sand dune has insulted me greatly

 

[sanddune50]

Sand dune has insulted me greatly

:hi:

 

[oregonvol]

Okay (can’t believe I actually have to do this)…

This:

She's the Provost and there are suspicions that she's out to embarrass the athletic side.

Was quoted and followed by this:

Doug Matthews, who is pretty tied in, has voiced the same concerns.

Which was quoted and followed by this:

Yep. It has to do with admissions and a more stringent curricula for our athletes that put us at a distinct disadvantage compared to other SEC schools, including Pansybilt. While we have made it harder to get our athletes admitted, Vaginabilt has actually relaxed their admissions standards.

These standards have been put in place by the Academic side of the university. What was once a symbiotic relationship has become adversarial over the last 10-12 years and it has shown with our performance on the field.

Don’t know how I would have gotten the impression KBVol was referencing Susan Martin.

But, arguing with KBVol and his ilk is like trying to explain math to a donkey. There’s just no point in it. I’ve asked for facts and received nothing but hearsay and insults.

I’m sure you guys are right. Susan Martin is a witch out to curse your children. Anyone who suggests otherwise must be related to her. If only the good ole boys could do their jobs without a woman around, right? I mean, how else could guys like Derek Dooley and Dave Hart, with their solid history of success everywhere else, fail? Yeah, it must be the provost.

 

[rockytop9808]

Okay (can’t believe I actually have to do this)…

This:

Was quoted and followed by this:

Which was quoted and followed by this:


Don’t know how I would have gotten the impression KBVol was referencing Susan Martin.

But, arguing with KBVol and his ilk is like trying to explain math to a donkey. There’s just no point in it. I’ve asked for facts and received nothing but hearsay and insults.

I’m sure you guys are right. Susan Martin is a witch out to curse your children. Anyone who suggests otherwise must be related to her. If only the good ole boys could do their jobs without a woman around, right? I mean, how else could guys like Derek Dooley and Dave Hart, with their solid history of success everywhere else, fail? Yeah, it must be the provost.

Well, a lot of the administration on UT's academic side is garbage without even looking at athletics, so I won't be giving money to the school anyway. Provost included.

 

[sanddune50]

Okay (can’t believe I actually have to do this)…

This:

Was quoted and followed by this:

Which was quoted and followed by this:


Don’t know how I would have gotten the impression KBVol was referencing Susan Martin.

But, arguing with KBVol and his ilk is like trying to explain math to a donkey. There’s just no point in it. I’ve asked for facts and received nothing but hearsay and insults.

I’m sure you guys are right. Susan Martin is a witch out to curse your children. Anyone who suggests otherwise must be related to her. If only the good ole boys could do their jobs without a woman around, right? I mean, how else could guys like Derek Dooley and Dave Hart, with their solid history of success everywhere else, fail? Yeah, it must be the provost.

You're not helping your cause right now Susan. This is about as bad as you leaking the Jenny Wright story to the local media.

Also, playing down your role as provost is a little desperate on your end as well. I mean, the position puts you at the top of the pecking order behind Cheek in the academic department. I'm sure a provost doesn't have the ability to possibly make a power play and make it near impossible for a kid like a Bruce Irwin to be admitted at UT.

And kudos on deflecting to the women's rights card. I mean that has to be it, right? It couldn't be that for over 100 years Tennessee's football tradition has been a source of pride for those of us who grew up in the area attending games, buying memorabilia, pushing the brand to bring revenue to the school that allows the Susan Martin's of the world to have a job. Couldn't have anything to do with perception that you are out to hurt the athletic department. Has to be 'the good ole boys' network.

Again, don't know why you are defending her so much oregonvol, but on the flip side you have brought little to the table to debunk her perceived character at the moment. Your move, ace.

 

[oregonvol]

Well, a lot of the administration on UT's academic side is garbage without even looking at athletics, so I won't be giving money to the school anyway.

And, to be honest, I don't have a good impression of the administration either. I just find it very strange that Susan Martin is blamed so much on here for failures in the athletic department (more so than even Jimmy Cheek, it seems and certainly more than Dave Hart) despite the fact that her job has nothing to do with athletics and she has no authority over it. But people constantly cite her as some kind of bogeyman and don't back it up with any facts whatsoever. It makes it seem like the posters really just have a problem with the notion of a woman in any position of power.

 

[rockytop9808]

And, to be honest, I don't have a good impression of the administration either. I just find it very strange that Susan Martin is blamed so much on here for failures in the athletic department (more so than even Jimmy Cheek, it seems and certainly more than Dave Hart) despite the fact that her job has nothing to do with athletics and she has no authority over it. But people constantly cite her as some kind of bogeyman and don't back it up with any facts whatsoever. It makes it seem like the posters really just have a problem with the notion of a woman in any position of power.

I don't think most posters on here are bright enough to get that deep.

I think they're just pissy about sucking at football and want to blame anybody that's got any connection to the school (I mean, just look during the season- every damn game thread you've got t-shirt losers deriding students for not selling out all of their seats, then calling them lazy or uncommitted). Idiots either forget the school is a school or think it's built on football and football alone, and want to make a big deal about "academics killing athletics". It's hilarious and stupid, and people who are actually on the damn campus know that that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

What pisses me off is people saying Cheek needs to be fired almost singularly as a result of the football program, without realizing the man is approving tuition hikes while giving himself raises and undertaking hilariously wasteful campus projects and campaigns. He needs to be fired, just not for the reasons that all of the mouthbreathers that stand on the sidewalks ramble about.

 

[KBVol]

Okay (can’t believe I actually have to do this)…

This:

Was quoted and followed by this:

Which was quoted and followed by this:


Don’t know how I would have gotten the impression KBVol was referencing Susan Martin.

But, arguing with KBVol and his ilk is like trying to explain math to a donkey. There’s just no point in it. I’ve asked for facts and received nothing but hearsay and insults.

I’m sure you guys are right. Susan Martin is a witch out to curse your children. Anyone who suggests otherwise must be related to her. If only the good ole boys could do their jobs without a woman around, right? I mean, how else could guys like Derek Dooley and Dave Hart, with their solid history of success everywhere else, fail? Yeah, it must be the provost.

Something else going on with you personally brother. Awfully sensitive .... you implicated Martin when I never said one word about her. Your problem, not mine. Done with this nonsense.

 

[sanddune50]

I don't think most posters on here are bright enough to get that deep.

I think they're just pissy about sucking at football and want to blame anybody that's got any connection to the school (I mean, just look during the season- every damn game thread you've got t-shirt losers deriding students for not selling out all of their seats, then calling them lazy or uncommitted). Idiots either forget the school is a school or think it's built on football and football alone, and want to make a big deal about "academics killing athletics". It's hilarious and stupid, and people who are actually on the damn campus know that that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

What pisses me off is people saying Cheek needs to be fired almost singularly as a result of the football program, without realizing the man is approving tuition hikes while giving himself raises and undertaking hilariously wasteful campus projects and campaigns. He needs to be fired, just not for the reasons that all of the mouthbreathers that stand on the sidewalks ramble about.

While I agree with your assessment about Cheek, and agree he should be gone for various reasons, to say the football program isn't reason enough to fire someone on the academic side when football brings in millions of dollars annually is inaccurate and quite frankly stupid at best.

The problem that you and oregonvol are seeming to struggle with is that the academic side is currently controlling the athletic side thus should be held accountable for its success or failure.

Cheek and Martin hold the 2 highest position in the academic department. So if there is a problem with them handling the workload, they should go to the BOT and say as much. By not doing so, means they accept responsibility for what happens in the athletic department as well. And for that, yes they should be handed their walking papers.

I find it amusing when current students beat their chest with all of this false bravado that they are regurgitating from what their professors have told them. Without sports, the academic department wouldn't be able to fund a lot of their undertakings that they get involved in.

It works in unison guys, like it or not.

 

[rockytop9808]

While I agree with your assessment about Cheek, and agree he should be gone for various reasons, to say the football program isn't reason enough to fire someone on the academic side when football brings in millions of dollars annually is inaccurate and quite frankly stupid at best.

The problem that you and oregonvol are seeming to struggle with is that the academic side is currently controlling the athletic side thus should be held accountable for its success or failure.

Cheek and Martin hold the 2 highest position in the academic department. So if there is a problem with them handling the workload, they should go to the BOT and say as much. By not doing so, means they accept responsibility for what happens in the athletic department as well. And for that, yes they should be handed their walking papers.

I find it amusing when current students beat their chest with all of this false bravado that they are regurgitating from what their professors have told them. Without sports, the academic department wouldn't be able to fund a lot of their undertakings that they get involved in.

It works in unison guys, like it or not.

I'll preface it with this- I'm not an academics-only loony-toon.

But when you people insinuate that sports is what brings in even a really significant portion of money for the school, you're way off base. The school has an operating budget over a billion dollars. The AD doesn't even have enough money to give to academics anymore- UT's academic side waived previously committed donations from the AD.

I give the same crap to the idiots who say the AD is wasting the university's money by leaving the lights on at Neyland. Tennessee's academic and athletic sides operate on their own almost completely separate wavelengths. You can't fire academic people for athletics sucking. That falls on the people handling the athletic admin daily, end of story.

 

[nagle]

:boredom:

 

[OrangeEyes]

Wow man, I can't figure out what you love more, your strawman arguments, your rumors, or your hearsay.

It's a bit disingenuous, don't you think, when you come into a thread about Susan Martin and you post your response to a quote about Susan Martin and then you pretend you never said anything about Susan Martin.

All I am asking for is some basic facts, because I want to understand how a provost, whose job has nothing to do with athletics, is at fault for the numerous failures of the athletics department (and even failures that occurred before she got the job). It's really an amazing story, I'd imagine. Susan Martin must possess some strange supernatural powers to be able to control the Chancellor and the AD like that. But instead, all I ever get is "Well so and so says it's true" or some odd story about all these athletes that can't get into school (odd because none of these athletes ever seem to have names).

Maybe it's another sex scandal.

 

[VolBraniac]

GOOD FOR YOU.:dance2::dance2: It's about time these asshats get hit where it hurts. These people are academicians and don't have a clue how the real world works.

Thank you JesusVol for the ability to PLONK morons.
:spank:

 

[sanddune50]

I'll preface it with this- I'm not an academics-only loony-toon.

But when you people insinuate that sports is what brings in even a really significant portion of money for the school, you're way off base. The school has an operating budget over a billion dollars. The AD doesn't even have enough money to give to academics anymore- UT's academic side waived previously committed donations from the AD.

I give the same crap to the idiots who say the AD is wasting the university's money by leaving the lights on at Neyland. Tennessee's academic and athletic sides operate on their own almost completely separate wavelengths. You can't fire academic people for athletics sucking. That falls on the people handling the athletic admin daily, end of story.

Not really. You just choose to believe in something that is factually inaccurate, kind of like your take on not for profit organizations several months ago. I guess Dave Hart was wrong when he confirmed that there wasn't autonomy between the athletic and academic department. I'm aware that funding comes from other sources than the athletic department, which begs to ask the question, why does the academic department need funding from the athletic department? And for bonus points, name another D-1 program that requires this from their athletic department?

 

[vols4evah]

I'll preface it with this- I'm not an academics-only loony-toon.

But when you people insinuate that sports is what brings in even a really significant portion of money for the school, you're way off base. The school has an operating budget over a billion dollars. The AD doesn't even have enough money to give to academics anymore- UT's academic side waived previously committed donations from the AD.

I give the same crap to the idiots who say the AD is wasting the university's money by leaving the lights on at Neyland. Tennessee's academic and athletic sides operate on their own almost completely separate wavelengths. You can't fire academic people for athletics sucking. That falls on the people handling the athletic admin daily, end of story.

ok if the academic side has a billion dollar budget then why have they been robbing the athletic dept of 6 million or more per year for years ?
Why is our cash reserve depleted ?
if they don't need the money then why have they been taking it ?

Cheeks had control of the Athletic deportment money and this was a major issue when Hart went to the BOT. He even spoke about it during his press conference afterwards.

Why after this BOT meeting did the academic side suddenly stop taking 6 million a year ? if you think they stopped out of the goodness of their hearts your sadly mistaken. The BOT forced them to stop and they dont like it.

I don't know all the particulars because not enough information has been released. But its very clear that there has been a serious issue between the academic and athletic side for some time now and that it has adversely effected the Athletic dept.
Chris Lowe mentions it here in the 3rd or fourth paragraph from the bottom.

Vols back to the drawing board - SEC Blog - ESPN.

The facts we do know are that Cheeks and the academics controlled the Athletic Dept. and the Athletic dept is now almost broke.
Hart had to go to the BOT to get somethings changed and Cheeks and the academic dept don't like it.

All of this has been a factor in why we couldn't hire a decent coach over the last few years until Hart came along.

Now you can defend the booger eater and the academic dept all you want but something is/was very rotten up on the hill, and since Cheeks was in charge I would look at him first and then at all his academic cronies.
Where has all the money gone ?

 

[OrangeEyes]

Thank you JesusVol for the ability to PLONK morons.
:spank:

Hey. Even the academics of the world can enjoy football. After all, it's entertainment. Sports help relieve our minds from stress and everyday life occurrences, no matter how big or small. Both, sports and the school/academic side, require operating funds to move towards the goal of being innovative, cutting edge, and having great success. In other words, leaving and maintaining a legacy. The key is having strong administration to manage those funds responsibly and implementing good money making business strategies, ideas, and decisions, all, while keeping good public relations.

 

[OrangeEyes]

Just the other day, Erik Ainge pointed out, on the EA Show, that you can have strong and respected academics, while maintaining elite sports programs, referencing Georgia and Florida. We just need to quit trying to be what we are not, such as, Harvard, Yale, Ivy League, etc...