ESPN thinks we go 4-8 next year

[GrowVol]

Espn also has Finebuam to shed great light upon us.

 

[fur burglar]

Please stop humoring the ag4fr thing. Surely you know an Aggie is a cud chewing animal that eats and vomits up the same thing to eat it again.

An aggie isn't a cow, dummy. Its an agricultural student.

 

[MrBiggles]

Oh, no problem "getting it"... but what could the guy have done? Hart showed signs of keeping him so Dooley's options were to endure the rest of the season or quit mid-season and pay his buyout.

He was trapped. Again, if you've ever been in a similar situation with a job or seen it with someone close to you then it is easier to understand the paralysis and hopelessness that you feel. You might resign yourself to your fate... knowing that the end is still a ways off. It is a terrible place to be.

I would certainly have rather seen him find a "hero" gear and finish strong but there's not many guys who have that. He probably wouldn't have been in that situation... as in not taking the job in the first place... if he were that good. UT took a shot at a guy that some thought was an up and comer before he proved himself. It didn't work for UT and broke the guy.

I feel sympathy more than hatred... but he still failed and was rightly fired.

Unfortunately and fortunately I and a few people close to me have been there in a no win situation with people clamouring for your head.. It isn't pretty and it is demoralising, but sometimes it is the best thing that can happen to you. You learn about yourself and others in your life. In the end though the program should have come first then coach. Hart should have done exactly what Hayden did to Kiffin at USC. It would have ended it and we would have just ended up at the same point anyway..

 

[MustafaRasta]

Pooooooooooooooooooooooooor Dooley, He was crushed. How could he go on? I mean this was his 1st coaching job ever and nobody in his family was a coach or anything that happened to coach in the same exact conference, so really he had no idea what to expect. I am sure he was shocked when the fans turned on him after a seat of our anus win against the men of mighty TROY @ our home field and I bet he was confused people could not understand his loss to a WR playing QB at the mighty Kentucky Wildcats. You dirty fans, how can you turn on a man that wanted to experiment with a top 30 defense and turn it into a 3-4 and hire one of the absolute worst DC's? How can anyone turn on him after the awesome Missouri game. It also must be crushing to know that you graded out as a complete jaggoff by almost every HS coach in Tennessee. Yep I feel awful for him.

 

[LotteryPick]

I think ESPN goes 4-8, personally.

 

[VolsnRavens]

An aggie isn't a cow, dummy. Its an agricultural student.

Maybe that's what he was talking about.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

:lolabove:

You could say the same thing about the off-season threads on here. lol:

No I couldn't here's why. ag4fr is a USU fan coming here on a Vols board belittling our team. Now, if I said the same thing, I'd be a Vols fan criticizing our team not his team. To put myself of ag4fr's level I'd have to haunt USUFANS and spout insults at his Aggie team. I don't do that so no I can't say the same thing here cause it would be different VN culturally as opposed to USU troll culturally. :hi:

 

[WoodsmanVol]

An aggie isn't a cow, dummy. Its an agricultural student.

They're cows when the Aggie fan acts like a cow. And that cud chewing guy is a cow as far as I'm concerned, student or not. Besides I saw an Aggie fan doing strange things to a cow in a movie once. Don't recall the title but the actor doing it was: Rob Schneider and the cow wasn't a dummy, it was the real thing. Uh-huh. So says the Woodsmanvol, the Woodsmanvol says.

 

[sjt18]

Unfortunately and fortunately I and a few people close to me have been there in a no win situation with people clamouring for your head.. It isn't pretty and it is demoralising, but sometimes it is the best thing that can happen to you. You learn about yourself and others in your life. In the end though the program should have come first then coach. Hart should have done exactly what Hayden did to Kiffin at USC. It would have ended it and we would have just ended up at the same point anyway..

That was a poor choice in retrospect by Hart. It was inhumane if he knew that he wasn't keeping Dooley anyway. I know there were some caveats in Dooley's contract that could have come into play but those could have been negotiated.

If Chaney finished as the interim, he might have found a way to beat UK and get to a bowl.

 

[sjt18]

Pooooooooooooooooooooooooor Dooley, He was crushed. How could he go on? I mean this was his 1st coaching job ever and nobody in his family was a coach or anything that happened to coach in the same exact conference, so really he had no idea what to expect. I am sure he was shocked when the fans turned on him after a seat of our anus win against the men of mighty TROY @ our home field and I bet he was confused people could not understand his loss to a WR playing QB at the mighty Kentucky Wildcats. You dirty fans, how can you turn on a man that wanted to experiment with a top 30 defense and turn it into a 3-4 and hire one of the absolute worst DC's? How can anyone turn on him after the awesome Missouri game. It also must be crushing to know that you graded out as a complete jaggoff by almost every HS coach in Tennessee. Yep I feel awful for him.

Perhaps you'll one day have to endure something similar. No one said he didn't fail. No one said he was a perfect coach or great at relationship building.

You just have to walk in those shoes to understand it... and be human to sympathize even with an "imperfect" person. That's probably why you can't relate... you're perfect, never fail, and are loved by all, right?

 

[VolAllen]

Perhaps you'll one day have to endure something similar. No one said he didn't fail. No one said he was a perfect coach or great at relationship building.

You just have to walk in those shoes to understand it... and be human to sympathize even with an "imperfect" person. That's probably why you can't relate... you're perfect, never fail, and are loved by all, right?

But Dooley got RICH in reward. I think most would walk in those shoes for a couple of years to be rewarded as Dooley was.

 

[Roustabout]

Oregon didnt cost us a bowl. Vandy and UGA did. We had both of those and let them slip.


Florida was pretty healthy when we played them. Driskel got hurt but that's about it. That was right before they started to fall apart.

Some people lack the ability to reason.
Did UT have a CHOICE whether it played Vandy or UGA?
No!!
It did have a choice as to whether it played Oregon. And a program in the state it was, while also dealing with a formiddible schedule didn't need to go on the road and get pounded by a top 5 team.
Technically, any one loss from last year cost a bowl. Yet, had UT scheduled Pacific, it would have gone to a bowl. Period end of story. UT has the same situation with Oklahoma. UT has 5 losing seasons in the last 7 years. That has to stop, and scheduling OOC games like this is not helping.

 

[KBVol]

Some people lack the ability to reason.
Did UT have a CHOICE whether it played Vandy or UGA?
No!!
It did have a choice as to whether it played Oregon. And a program in the state it was, while also dealing with a formiddible schedule didn't need to go on the road and get pounded by a top 5 team.
Technically, any one loss from last year cost a bowl. Yet, had UT scheduled Pacific, it would have gone to a bowl. Period end of story. UT has the same situation with Oklahoma. UT has 5 losing seasons in the last 7 years. That has to stop, and scheduling OOC games like this is not helping.

This times about 4 million. There is absolutely no reason to schedule games on the road in back to back years vs teams like Oregon and OU while we're in complete rebuild mode. It's not ducking anyone, it's reality, if you pull back on the OOC until you're ready to even remotely compete with them, which we're not. We had no choice but to play top 5 Bama, top 5 Auburn, top 5 Scar and top 10 Missouri last year ....we definitely chose to voluntarily go to top 10 Oregon and get absolutely slaughtered. If we'd played Wake Forest or UMass instead, like Vandy did, we'd have gone bowling.

 

[JohnnyBall]

I knew Dooley was finished after the Kentucky debacle, but quite frankly, he was a jerk and not a nice person. He was a silver spooned, prep school, ivy league lawyer that could not relate to the average person. He was more concerned about his hairspray, his dry cleaning, the length of sideline benches, whether chicken sandwiches were being served instead of hamburgers etc. I'm convinced that Butch's background allows him to relate better with kids. He would have likely convinced Bryce Brown to stay, and gotten thru to the likes of Janzen Jackson,Tyler Bray, and Darick.
I believe Dave Hart needs to come out right now and state that we are going to the mat with Butch Jones, no matter the result this season. We don't need the negative Nancies burning up the keyboards and whining to the likes of Tony Basilio, especially if we get Gibson commited, else poor recruiting becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. I know two sports writers in Chattanooga who told me point blank that no way Tennessee wins 6 this year.

Thats better than me;I cant name two sports writers in Chattanooga

 

[oregonvol]

This times about 4 million. There is absolutely no reason to schedule games on the road in back to back years vs teams like Oregon and OU while we're in complete rebuild mode. It's not ducking anyone, it's reality, if you pull back on the OOC until you're ready to even remotely compete with them, which we're not. We had no choice but to play top 5 Bama, top 5 Auburn, top 5 Scar and top 10 Missouri last year ....we definitely chose to voluntarily go to top 10 Oregon and get absolutely slaughtered. If we'd played Wake Forest or UMass instead, like Vandy did, we'd have gone bowling.

The way we played down the stretch last year, Wake Forest could well have beaten us. They played Vanderbilt closer than we did, at any rate.

 

[GBO97]

The way we played down the stretch last year, Wake Forest could well have beaten us. They played Vanderbilt closer than we did, at any rate.

Wtf???? We led Vandy until 16sec left in the game.

 

[sjt18]

But Dooley got RICH in reward. I think most would walk in those shoes for a couple of years to be rewarded as Dooley was.

Good money. I'm not sure how much that kind of public humiliation is worth... but he didn't leave a pauper.

Very few people take solace in how much money they're making or getting in severance. How many times do you actually think about the money you are making while working? Have you ever looked someone in the eye who is being given a severance?

I'm pretty sure he'd much rather have succeeded and had to PAY a buy out to leave.

 

[KBVol]

The way we played down the stretch last year, Wake Forest could well have beaten us. They played Vanderbilt closer than we did, at any rate.

No they didn't. Check out the respective boxscores. Vanderbilt had to score on their last drive of the game to beat both UT and WFU but put up many more yards and first downs vs WFU than UT. Vandy had to score a td with :16 left to beat us by 4 vs kicking a field goal with :39 vs WFU to win by 2. As a matter of fact, we had a 10 pt lead very late before Pig's irrelevant block in the back nullified Dobbs' td run.

I'll give you that a UT-WFU game probably would've been a toss up, but we would've at least been favored to win at home....as opposed to getting boat raced and embarrassed at Oregon.

 

[MustafaRasta]

Perhaps you'll one day have to endure something similar. No one said he didn't fail. No one said he was a perfect coach or great at relationship building.

You just have to walk in those shoes to understand it... and be human to sympathize even with an "imperfect" person. That's probably why you can't relate... you're perfect, never fail, and are loved by all, right?

It has more to do with your inability to process failure and maybe why you are looking for in it Jones despite some of your recent backtracking. You can't tell the difference between a dufus who quits on the program and a guy who is busting his ass on the recruiting trail and trying to turn the program around. Your consistency lies in "lets give them both 3 years".

It's not a miracle to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

It's a shame you think it is. It's more shameful to excuse it from a man whose ineptitude and quitter attitude set back one of the best football programs in the country because he was sad.

Ps: I am liked by some and loved by even less. People who excuse failure and talk out of both sides of their face have all the friends.

 

[sjt18]

It has more to do with your inability to process failure

How many times do I have to say that Dooley failed and was rightly fired before you understand that I believe Dooley failed and was rightly fired? What kind of "processing" does that require? I'll challenge you too. I said within the first couple of months he was hired that he had to make a move by year 3 or he WOULD be fired. I made the SAME case then as I make concerning Jones now. UT cannot afford a coach that recruits won't listen to. They don't listen to coaches on hot seats.

Dooley got his 3 years. He failed. It is Jones turn.

and maybe why you are looking for in it Jones despite some of your recent backtracking.

I haven't back tracked. I have seen some more positive things and have honestly said so. I have YET to change my mind about last fall. They left win(s) on the board.

You can't tell the difference between a dufus who quits on the program and a guy who is busting his ass on the recruiting trail and trying to turn the program around. Your consistency lies in "lets give them both 3 years".

My consistency lies in holding whoever takes the job to a single standard. Period.

Again, if you have no experience in that kind of situation then it is pretty easy (dumb but easy) to call someone a "dufus".

It's not a miracle to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

No. But there are times when no matter how hard you pull, things go against you. Sometimes you make mistakes that you just cannot overcome... reasonable decisions... but ones that don't work.

It's a shame you think it is. It's more shameful to excuse it from a man whose ineptitude and quitter attitude set back one of the best football programs in the country because he was sad.

Indeed? I think the greatest shame is that UT has not discovered you yet. With your perfection, you'd restore the program overnight.

Ps: I am liked by some and loved by even less. People who excuse failure and talk out of both sides of their face have all the friends.

LOL@U. Who has excused failure? I said Dooley failed (ad nauseum). I have ALSO been willing to say the Emperor had no clothes last fall.... while most here were "excusing failure".

I've had to fire numerous people over the past couple of years. They had been given a chance to meet standard and failed. Their terminations were just. I still had sympathy for what they were having to go through. I especially felt for their families.

When you get off on hating people who get hurt (even by the just consequences of their own choices and actions)... you have serious issues.

 

[oregonvol]

I'll give you that a UT-WFU game probably would've been a toss up, but we would've at least been favored to win at home....as opposed to getting boat raced and embarrassed at Oregon.

My point is, losing to bad Wake Forest team at home is every bit as embarrassing (if not more so) than getting absolutely torched by a top ranked Oregon team on the road. With the way we played most weeks last season, either instance would be a distinct possibility (though neither situation should happen to a team filled 3 & 4 star athletes and an actual high quality coaching staff).

 

[MustafaRasta]

dodge dodge deflect multi quote repeat.

You missed the point, should I say AGAIN? My point is you were severely mislead in giving Dooley his time of 3 years because you were not paying attention.

Your whole platform now is feel bad for DD. You don't see that as asinine because you're full of your own self righteous hot air. Would you like to know what group I am not hating on that absolutely got hurt? The tax payers of the state of Tennessee, the players who had to watch this idiot flub the team and then quit on them while he preached to them they tap the sign before they run off onto the field.

Cheap argument that you present where I am suggesting I could do better than CDD, when all I am saying you have to be a blind monkey to not notice he quit.

I fired people too, on christmas eve once(for being late) I don't feel bad, you have a job, you do the job, you get a raise, you get fired. This is how jobs work.

Also despite your wishy washy feelings, you have had no problem critiquing the bejesus out of Jones his first year in. I certainly hope Butch doesn't get his feelings hurt and in turn become very sad. Then he will quit too?

 

[Vol logic]

dodge dodge deflect multi quote repeat.

You missed the point, should I say AGAIN? My point is you were severely mislead in giving Dooley his time of 3 years because you were not paying attention.

Your whole platform now is feel bad for DD. You don't see that as asinine because your full of your own self righteous hot air. Would you like to know what group I am not hating on that absolutely got hurt? The tax payers of the state of Tennessee, the players to had to watch this idiot flub the team and then quit on them while he preached to them they tap the sign before they run off onto the field.

Cheap argument that you present where I am suggesting I could do better than CDD, when all I am saying you have to be a blind monkey to not notice he quit.

I fired people too, on christmas eve once(for being late) I don't feel bad, you have a job, you do the job, you get a raise, you get fired. This is how jobs work.

Also despite your wishy washy feelings, you have had no problem critiquing the bejesus out of Jones his first year in. I certainly hope Butch doesn't get his feelings hurt and in turn become very sad. Then he will quit too?

I like this post but I hope that person who was late on Christmas was REALLY late. I have fired many and some during the Holidays but that is my least favorite aspect of my business.

IMO Dooley mailed it in and violated his contract by being negligent in his duties. We shouldn't have even paid the guy towards the end. If one is qualified then EFFORT is paramount and that is where CBJ seems to shine.

 

[MustafaRasta]

He was really late for like the 5th time in 2 months.

Also, I agree, we shouldn't pay Dooley either.

My post was full of typos, maybe that's why nobody liked it? Maybe nobody likes me....I quit.

 

[sjt18]

dodge dodge deflect multi quote repeat.

You missed the point, should I say AGAIN? My point is you were severely mislead in giving Dooley his time of 3 years because you were not paying attention.

Sorry. You're wrong.

Your whole platform now is feel bad for DD.

No. My whole "platform" is that he tried, failed, and was fired. While it should not have gone any differently... I am still experienced and compassionate enough to sympathize with someone's pain and humiliation.

You don't see that as asinine because you're full of your own self righteous hot air.

Pot... meet kettle... except more like locomotive meet kettle.

Would you like to know what group I am not hating on that absolutely got hurt? The tax payers of the state of Tennessee, the players who had to watch this idiot flub the team and then quit on them while he preached to them they tap the sign before they run off onto the field.

Yeah. Gotcha. That's a good reason to hate someone for failing. Stay classy.

Cheap argument that you present where I am suggesting I could do better than CDD, when all I am saying you have to be a blind monkey to not notice he quit.

Dude... this whole string of conversation started because I said that he quit and hung Jones out to dry.

I fired people too, on christmas eve once(for being late) I don't feel bad, you have a job, you do the job, you get a raise, you get fired. This is how jobs work.

Nice. I'm sure that will go well for you... all that heart felt concern for human beings.

Also despite your wishy washy feelings, you have had no problem critiquing the bejesus out of Jones his first year in. I certainly hope Butch doesn't get his feelings hurt and in turn become very sad. Then he will quit too?

I don't have any wishy washy feelings. I am perfectly satisfied with the fact that high standards have to be set and met while also feeling bad for people who suffer because they fail to meet those standards. I do not relish in seeing people hurt even when they fail and I have to hold them accountable. You seem to consider the failures of others as personal offences to YOU. Then you want to accuse someone else of self-righteous hot air?

It isn't feelings being hurt. In spite of the temptation, I hope you NEVER have to experience the kind of depression some of us are talking about here. Ted Turner went through something similar at one point. It happens to capable people. It happens in spite of making decisions that "should" work but don't. It happens sometimes because of decisions that seem reasonable and seem to work for awhile then trap you too deep. There are many ways you can get into that quicksand... and virtually no way to get out without letting it all go.

As someone else suggested, Hart should have performed a mercy killing sometime after USCe. Dooley was used up.

Sort of what Keanu Reaves character conveyed in "The Replacements".