ESPN thinks we go 4-8 next year

[rekinhavoc]

Well there is only one thing we can do...

 

[WoodsmanVol]

In the last decade.....mighty Utah State is 47-75 in two of the most piss poor football conferences in the country. A 1-win season, a 2-win season, 3 3-win seasons....stellar, powerhouse, stuff of football legend....and this world class record includes 2 of the mighty Aggies' greatest seasons ever in 2012 & 2013.

On the other hand, Tennessee, while enduring arguably the worst 10 year stretch in school history since right about the time Archduke Fernidand's assassination sparked the First World War in the early 1900s, is 67-58 while playing in by far the best and most competitive conference in the country, never having won less than 5 games in any season.

Keep barking little fella.

Please stop humoring the ag4fr thing. Surely you know an Aggie is a cud chewing animal that eats and vomits up the same thing to eat it again.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

It sounds like you're a USU troll, coming to a UT board, to talk about how bad UT is.

Despite all of this, you know USU is still going to lose to UT. So I ask, what's the point? You can't say anything, because the mighty USU is going to lose to that "4-8" UT team.

You keep bringing up the fact UT is horrible in conference, but none of this matters, because y'all are still going to lose to UT ...

We've had some interesting trolls on VN before, but you stand out as one of the most incompetent.

He is. Just check his name to see other threads he's been on and what he said (and promised at one point). Then go to the USUFANS site and see what he says there after visiting VN. I resent it when Vols fans go to rivals sites and act like this ( apparently someone else does too based on a post I saw there a while back) so I recognize ag4fr for what he is. There are at least two USU fans on VN who are intelligent enough to have a real conversation even when disagreeing. ag4fr isn't one of them. My biggest beef with him is he's a liar who made a promise and didn't keep it.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

All of this is false regarding Fulmer.

He had a top-10 recruiting class with two Heisman finalist QBs on it. Both of whom had much greater college careers than Bray, arguably with less receiving talent.

SECE has been at its nadir since Tebow graduated. We would have won the East at least once probably twice. Not suffered through the worst stretch of TN football ever. It's just ridiculous to bang on about it. Nick Reveiz and the Sullin twins >> the entire Kiffin lost recruiting class. THAT really says something. It also says something about the Bamboo Farmer and the situation that we got progressively worse the fewer and fewer Fulmer players were on the team.

If it was time for someone better than Fulmer, well, we knew where Gruden was in 2008 too.

We don't know what a 2009 Fulmer signing class would've looked like. It's like saying Wyoming would not have beaten us but for the announcement of Fulmer's departure that week. I can just as easily state that the problem was not firing him after the 2005 season when the writing was clearly on the wall and we had guys like a then unblemished Butch Davis who actually wanted to come here. It's a game for revisionists and it does nothing to help the current situation. As to the recruiting, Fulmer took a roster with two top five classes into 2008 and still had a losing season. I seem to recall that he claimed that recruits lied to him after signing day in 2008, which probably did not bode well for the future. Fulmer's problem was losing Cutcliffe twice and not being able to recruit SEC quality linemen in the necessary numbers his last few years and the recruiting issues were a direct result of people like Saban, Meyer and Richt taking all the guys that Fulmer needed win.

 

[KBVol]

Despite that great conference...
Despite that rich history...

There is ESPN calling it at 4-8.

Other than the well-documented Florida/Bama/ESPN Love Affair conspiracy theory, are any of you guys ever gonna question why?

I always figured UT fans were a little sharper than this... LSU fans, I figured just say, "Chit, ESPN, dunno nothin". You guys can do better.

So you keep moving the cheese eh? You bring up UTs SEC record the last decade, I address both UTs and USUs last decade records, and you do what you typically do which is quickly slink away to another topic....kinda hard to defend the indefensible...we get it.

Btw, so ESPN always nails those preseason predictions, right? How'd they do projecting where Auburn, Missouri or even Florida would finish last year? I know you're not very familiar with big boy football, but those guys are all in the SEC, shouldn't be too hard to google. Hint: they missed on all 3.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

We don't know what a 2009 Fulmer signing class would've looked like. It's like saying Wyoming would not have beaten us but for the announcement of Fulmer's departure that week. I can just as easily state that the problem was not firing him after the 2005 season when the writing was clearly on the wall and we had guys like a then unblemished Butch Davis who actually wanted to come here. It's a game for revisionists and it does nothing to help the current situation. As to the recruiting, Fulmer took a roster with two top five classes into 2008 and still had a losing season. I seem to recall that he claimed that recruits lied to him after signing day in 2008, which probably did not bode well for the future. Fulmer's problem was losing Cutcliffe twice and not being able to recruit SEC quality linemen in the necessary numbers his last few years and the recruiting issues were a direct result of people like Saban, Meyer and Richt taking all the guys that Fulmer needed win.

In hindsight, we would have been better off to have kept Fulmer. The 2005 and 2008 seasons were a result of quarterback issues and learning a new offensive system. Eric Ainge was coming off a season ending injury in 2005 and 2008 was the year we installed the clawfense. Of course, you will recall our know it all fans clamoring for Fulmer to change the offense prior to 2008. To say the writing on the wall in 2005 is absurd. Our defense was stellar as we finished the season ranked #3 in the nation. In addition, name a single coach that didn't have a losing season in 16 years? If you find any, it will be a short list. Do you think Mark Richt should have been fired a few years ago? I believe there are so many good coaches in the SEC, that all the programs are going to become more up and down. You dont fire a coach with a proven history of winning over a couple of losing seasons. That is simply dumb, but it happens everywhere.:no:

 

[sjt18]

With that said...some issues I have with what u r saying makes me want to ask u...wouldn't u have "quit" recruiting half season??

I would love to think "no" but unless you stand in those turf shoes you really don't know what you'd do. Many here have no appreciation for that level of stress. They just don't have the life experiences or perhaps a mentor that prepared them for what is almost bound to come in every life with any significance.

U r in the rebuilding field in a sense if iirc from a post a long time ago...do u really think 2.5 yrs is enough time? Especially in such a highly regulated industry like CFB??

Yes. Not because it "should be" but because it "has" to be.

The program is still bigger than the coach. Yes he had the confidence to take on a dumpster fire. I know some want to "support" the current guy whoever it is... but IMO Dooley inherited a worse situation than Jones in several ways. Some of the infrastructure that Jones has used well and improved was started by Dooley (VFL for instance). But the fact is, UT can NEVER afford a coach on a hot seat for very long. Not Fulmer. Not Dooley. Not Jones. UT's dependence on out of state players precludes it.

People like to bash him on his losing record as a HC, but both of his gigs were short lived and both big rebuilds. Not gigs like what Meyer or Sumlin tend to walk into as examples.

You know I don't condemn him and am not afraid of the childish namecalling and hate by association. It was a long shot gamble for Dooley but he took it. With his resume, he was getting a shot at a premier program. He got his shot. He failed (granted against difficult odds). He was fired. Now we move on in search of "the right guy".

Some folks are delusional and can't seem to put things in the perspective of how it generally goes with these types of things. I supported Fulmer getting extra time before getting canned because once you are on the coaching carousel... you never really know when you'll get off. Programs almost always go through a few coaches between good ones.

I've been reading this thread for the last 4 days or so, and finally just finished it. And I agree with u that we should win 6-8 games next year including a bowl game. I really found it interesting that throughout this thread one could just change Jones for Dooley and Dooley for Kiffen(mixed in with Fulmer from time to time), and we could be back in the '11 offseason. I find it to be hypocritical, and major memory loss by many jilted lovers. The same people that will go crazy if after this year CBJ wins 4-5 games, and if they lose to KY or something. They build themselves up so high that if there's a stumble the fall is so hard. That's why I believe we r in no way like LSU or Bama where we should look at the schedule as a season whole, but game by game as they come up. Who knows what's going to happen come Mizzou...half our team could be hurt or vice versa. I want to see close well fought games. Not surprising that only one person in this long thread stated that, and compared it to the '12 season. Cause that's what was wanted, and we got that.

Agree. But barring inordinate injuries, UT should beat Mizzou. Mizzou has much bigger problems right now than UT does. I don't want to even think about how this board would be if the best returning WR UT had was a guy on the level of Bud Sasser.

Another thing I found interesting is how people like to say how bad Dooley's players are, but can't accept the possibility that CBJ couldn't use the players he had.

I take a lot of heat for pointing that out.

Other thing I've noticed u do a lot is blaming Dooley for hiring Sunseri. Was it proven that that hire was totally on him or was it pushed on him?? The switch to the 3-4 was his demise, but if he hadn't signed DMc he may not have done it.

I think it was DD's decision to move to the 3-4. He began to recruit in a way that made you think he was changing before Sal was in the picture. It was a terrible mistake. There aren't that many players out there who are both elite talents and suited to play the 3-4. He wasn't getting many of them then made the change anyway.

Sal may have been forced on him. But the biggest mistake was going to the 3-4 to start with.

My issue is that so many people act like jilted lover as if Dooley purposely made the move to hurt the program. Or act as if it was a stupid move and that there was a huge backlash about making the change when announced. It may have not been a stupid move if it was given time, and people knew it could have issues at first. But we'll never know.

It was stupid. It was not malicious. But it WAS a decision that belongs to the HC. He owns it for good or ill... just like Jones' decision to start Peterman. I respect both guys for taking that big of a swing. Neither worked out... and there are consequences.

Jones may have left a UF win on the table. That could eventually weigh into him being let go. Dooley's decision was far more significant... and did contribute to him losing his job. Running the 4-3 with Wilcox, he probably has a 9-10 win season in '12 and the adoration of many of his biggest haters here.

I said it a while back, and oddly enough oregonvol (we've hashed it out a lot) believes the same thing, but if we end up needing to get another coach down the road Hart will need to go too.

I frankly don't believe Hart chooses head football coaches... or Hamilton either. "Money" makes those decisions. He may do the work. I don't think he makes the decision. But... he will likely be the fall guy.

I will always believe theat the Gruden Fiasco cost the Vols 1-2 games in '12. That's what I care about. If he would have come out in support and eased Dooley in '12 he would have went bowling imo, and that wouldn't have fit Hart's agenda imo.

That requires alot more speculation than I am willing to engage in.

At the end of the day imo I think CBJ gets that extra 4th year cause Hart hired him, and even if he doesn't deserve it he'll give it to him. I'm sure their will be reasons like no money for the payout, etc.

Again, I don't think that decision would be Hart's if it comes to that point.

CBJ needs to show progress w/o fail, and at this pt 5 wins isn't that. IMHO Dooley walked into a way different and more difficult situation than CBJ. CBJs situation isn't a cake walk by any means, but not as bad.

Obviously, I agree.

I won't be happy with 5 wins only, but can swallow it with close games. Same I said with Dooley going into '12, and I believe he met that.

Disagree on both. Dooley's '11 SHOULD have put him on a hot seat. He was rightly fired for his performance in
'12. It was his failures, not Hart's, that allowed the Gruden talk. A 5-7 season this year should land Jones on a hot seat needing a very good year next year to hang on.

It won't make me feel comfortable if we get 5 wins, cause I agree it will hurt recruiting. He had the luxury of being able to sign 35, and a boat load of legacies this past year. That's a CFB HCs wet dream, and an anomaly more than the norm. The 35 signing allows for so much more leeway when juggling recruits than having to stay in the low 20s. Something Dooley had to do. I don't think he took early commitments cause of the need to not have to take one away in case it was needed. Has the combo of being able to sign 35 and the high # of talented legacies ever happen for any team?? I can't remember ever seeing it.

Jones is a better recruiter than Dooley was. If Jones fails, the next coach will have a better talent foundation to start with. I believe you are going too far in making excuses on this one. Dooley was not the salesman that Jones is.

6-8 games is a must for CBJ to survive imo. Not for me to think he's a good coach or not, but for him to build confidence in all involved....players, fans, recruits, and :fingerscrossed: Hart too. I want what's best for UT, and that's it.

His odds will be very long unless he improves W/L. Not impossible but very difficult.

I have stated incorrectly that it would take 21 wins to guarantee a 4th year. I believe that total is actually 18 or 19. IMO, if he wins only 5 this year then his minimum next fall is 8-9 wins. I don't think improving to 6 or 7 in year three will save him... nor should it.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

yes.....we were one of two teams that beat South Carolina. I don't think we got their best shot. I'm hoping Bama doesnt bring their A game to Knoxville.:lolabove:

I think with the chip on their shoulder and it being later in the season, Aabama will be a harder game than OU.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I think with the chip on their shoulder and it being later in the season, Aabama will be a harder game than OU.

Especially if we upset OU. Bama will be out to prove something.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

In hindsight, we would have been better off to have kept Fulmer. The 2005 and 2008 seasons were a result of quarterback issues and learning a new offensive system. Eric Ainge was coming off a season ending injury in 2005 and 2008 was the year we installed the clawfense. Of course, you will recall our know it all fans clamoring for Fulmer to change the offense prior to 2008. To say the writing on the wall in 2005 is absurd. Our defense was stellar as we finished the season ranked #3 in the nation. In addition, name a single coach that didn't have a losing season in 16 years? If you find any, it will be a short list. Do you think Mark Richt should have been fired a few years ago? I believe there are so many good coaches in the SEC, that all the programs are going to become more up and down. You dont fire a coach with a proven history of winning over a couple of losing seasons. That is simply dumb, but it happens everywhere.:no:

All we did was under perform beginning with the loss to LSU In the 2001 SECCG. When we had top recruiting classes we couldn't win and when the recruiting slumped it was over. There were a lot of dashed expectations and missed opportunities between 98 and 05 that provided plenty of justification to make a change. Fulmer's halcyon days were well passed by the time they finally made a change and to suggest that he would have turned it around is mere speculation that is not even supported by the facts when you look at the trend line we were on at that time. And so far I've only mentioned the on the field results stuff. Have you forgotten the academic scandal that gave BOT justification to give the chancellor control over the AD, the player arrests and the Fulmer Cup? I guess we're just going to disagree on this one but I think it's counterproductive to try and establish a narrative that somehow Fulmer was a class or two away from restoring the glory years.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

I suppose it says that we are a smaller program about 1/4 the size of UT and we are playing on the road.

It sounds like you are adjusting your expectations to 4 W's.

Insult.
Deflect.
Excuse.
Rinse.
Repeat.

Do we think we'll be next year's Auburn? No. I'm sure EVERYONE had them going to the national title anyway with what, 500-1 odds? But look at what Ole Miss did last year with A LOT of young talent, 8-5 against a somewhat easier schedule granted. I think you vastly underestimate the improvement we SHOULD see next year. (Cue the "I think you vastly overestimate it" comment)

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

Especially if we upset OU. Bama will be out to prove something.

Yeah I hadn't even considered the implications IF we SOMEHOW upset OU. Hey, for a brief few shining weeks we could claim to be better than Bama until they hear the talk and grind us into the dust for it

 

[sjt18]

SJT
You finally got what annoyed me about Dooley. He quit mid season and took the team with him. I was reading his body language 2012 and it was a man that was broken and defeated and knew he was in over his head. The Kentucky game in 2011 was the start. There is a sign above the locker room that says "give your all for Tennessee" for the players to see right before they run out onto Neyland Stadium, yet the coach wasn't doing it so the players didn't and the results followed.

Oh, no problem "getting it"... but what could the guy have done? Hart showed signs of keeping him so Dooley's options were to endure the rest of the season or quit mid-season and pay his buyout.

He was trapped. Again, if you've ever been in a similar situation with a job or seen it with someone close to you then it is easier to understand the paralysis and hopelessness that you feel. You might resign yourself to your fate... knowing that the end is still a ways off. It is a terrible place to be.

I would certainly have rather seen him find a "hero" gear and finish strong but there's not many guys who have that. He probably wouldn't have been in that situation... as in not taking the job in the first place... if he were that good. UT took a shot at a guy that some thought was an up and comer before he proved himself. It didn't work for UT and broke the guy.

I feel sympathy more than hatred... but he still failed and was rightly fired.

 

[sjt18]

Despite that great conference...
Despite that rich history...

There is ESPN calling it at 4-8.

Other than the well-documented Florida/Bama/ESPN Love Affair conspiracy theory, are any of you guys ever gonna question why?

I always figured UT fans were a little sharper than this... LSU fans, I figured just say, "Chit, ESPN, dunno nothin". You guys can do better.

I think most of us know why because we're quite a bit sharper than that.

Guys like the ONE ESPN writer predicting UT to go 4-8 for the first time in its HISTORY... are looking at the past few seasons for UT and its opponents then at UT's youth. They overemphasize like you the past few years of history and not what is going on in the development of the program RIGHT NOW.

This happens every single year... EVERY YEAR. You probably haven't noticed since you've only had a couple of years where it was worth your while to even pay attention to predictions.

 

[sjt18]

It sounds like you're a USU troll, coming to a UT board, to talk about how bad UT is.

Despite all of this, you know USU is still going to lose to UT. So I ask, what's the point? You can't say anything, because the mighty USU is going to lose to that "4-8" UT team.

The real problem is that he doesn't. On this board you see his "humble" side. On his own board, he expresses a belief much stronger about USU's chances. Here he predicts a "close, hard fought" game. There he suggests if not predicts that they will march into Neyland and beat UT.

 

[KBVol]

Please stop humoring the ag4fr thing. Surely you know an Aggie is a cud chewing animal that eats and vomits up the same thing to eat it again.

Can't help myself. It's just too easy.

 

[Boca Vol]

Please stop humoring the ag4fr thing. Surely you know an Aggie is a cud chewing animal that eats and vomits up the same thing to eat it again.

:lolabove:

You could say the same thing about the off-season threads on here. lol:

 

[UT_Tix79]

So you keep moving the cheese eh? You bring up UTs SEC record the last decade, I address both UTs and USUs last decade records, and you do what you typically do which is quickly slink away to another topic....kinda hard to defend the indefensible...we get it.

Btw, so ESPN always nails those preseason predictions, right? How'd they do projecting where Auburn, Missouri or even Florida would finish last year? I know you're not very familiar with big boy football, but those guys are all in the SEC, shouldn't be too hard to google. Hint: they missed on all 3.

Espn predicted our record exactly for the past 3 years...so, they've seemed to have a pretty good record on our team

 

[UTVOLFAN]

4-8 is possible, but so is 8-4. I'm looking forward to finding out! Bring on the hate everyone; it'll make it all the more sweet.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

Espn predicted our record exactly for the past 3 years...so, they've seemed to have a pretty good record on our team

This thread is giving me an aneurysm. I might be having a mild stroke.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

This thread is giving me an aneurysm. I might be having a mild stroke.

Rub some dirt on it.

 

[Bolesie]

ESPN Hates us

funk espn

 

[butchna]

Despite that great conference...
Despite that rich history...

There is ESPN calling it at 4-8.

Other than the well-documented Florida/Bama/ESPN Love Affair conspiracy theory, are any of you guys ever gonna question why?

I always figured UT fans were a little sharper than this... LSU fans, I figured just say, "Chit, ESPN, dunno nothin". You guys can do better.

He's got ESPN fellas. :clapping:

 

[butchna]

Espn predicted our record exactly for the past 3 years...so, they've seemed to have a pretty good record on our team

This isn't a Florida thread. :huh:

 

[coach12]

ESPN also thinks Mel Kiper Jr is worth their air time. Tifwiw