ETSU first class

#52
#52
butchball13 said:
Also, take a walk around Appy St. The new construction on campus was paid for by that football program's success. ETSU could...I say could....benefit from the same type of success and improve that campus and other programs.

JMO
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Appy St also has a statewide following. ETSU doesn't and will not. I see more Appy St gear and tags around the Triangle than I do any other North Carolina School minus NC State and East Carolina. Appy St gear is far more abundant than Duke, Wake Forest or, yes even any of the UNC schools, to include the one here in Chapel Hill.
 
#54
#54
volfanbill said:
The flip side is that while tennis and soccer don't bring in money either, they are extremely cheap to keep. Football, yeah, not so much.
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Wrong. No sport is cheap. With football you have the chance of at least possibly making a profit.
 
#56
#56
Bruce Wayne said:
Wrong. No sport is cheap. With football you have the chance of at least possibly making a profit.
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As an ETSU alum, I personally supported putting more money and effort into the Basketball program. At least ETSU has some history as an overachiever (upsets in the tourney, conference championships, etc) there. Once Basketball was performing at a higher level (think Butler, Gonzaga, VMI, or at least winning the ASun [or SOCON] on a regular basis), then you could use the fanbase and profits you have built to launch football.

I just don't see why you would want to add the most expensive sport that is going to go into direct competition with a Top-10 all-time brand in Knoxville when you can't even get the basketball team winning consistently.

Besides, of the two money sports, basketball is much easier to build because of the smaller roster numbers. One great coaching hire, and your program could be a tournament fixture in 3-5 years. Plus you could have a good venue through renovation or new building much cheaper than a football stadium. I also think that it would be easier to draw a fanbase, as basketball is more convenient and loyalties for basketball are more divided around the Tri-Cities. However, with the current plan, I expect to see ETSU languish in mediocrity in both sports for the foreseeable future.

I will admit that a winner either way will draw the crowds and eventually profits, but I believe that they are taking a much more difficult road than they could have chosen.

(Full disclosure: I was a grad student on campus the last time they had a vote to bring back football, and I voted against it.)
 
#57
#57
First&Tenn said:
As an ETSU alum, I


. Plus you could have a good venue through renovation or new building much cheaper than a football stadium.

QUOTE]


In Johnson City we have the Mini Dome and Freedom Hall both around 35 years old. I am not sure pouring money into either is a good long term idea.
As for building an basketball arena it is far far more expense then building a football stadium. A football stadium can be built in stages if and when more room is needed, you can't do that with a basketball arena.
First stage of the ETSU football stadium is between 18-20 million a basketball arena would be at least 3 times that much.
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#58
#58
RowdyZ said:
In Johnson City we have the Mini Dome and Freedom Hall both around 35 years old. I am not sure pouring money into either is a good long term idea.
As for building an basketball arena it is far far more expense then building a football stadium. A football stadium can be built in stages if and when more room is needed, you can't do that with a basketball arena.
First stage of the ETSU football stadium is between 18-20 million a basketball arena would be at least 3 times that much.
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However, a football stadium can maybe get used 30 times a year, with maybe half of those events being moneymakers. A basketball arena is extremely multipurpose and, when used correctly, never have a "dark night." Obviously, they will have some, but it's far easier to make money out of a basketball arena than it is a football stadium.
 
#59
#59
Lets be honest, most schools that field FCS schools do so, so that they can send the kids to a couple big programs homecoming game, lose by 50 and come home with a check that foots the bill on several other programs.
 
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#60
#60
volfanbill said:
then why wasn't it successful before? everyone wants to say "if it's right" it will work. It's already proven not to work and it's proven that most schools this size lose a ton of money trying to make it work.
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first thing you do is build a nice on campus stadium before you kickoffs the first game. Then you hire a head coach whose had some success at the level you hope to compete at. Concurrently run well publicized fundraising campaigns that will appeal to your alumni who don't already give. Get rid of any alcohol restrictions that would prevent people from tailgating the way they're used to doing it at say an SEC game. Voilla you're ready to kick off.
 
#61
#61
VolunteerHillbilly said:
first thing you do is build a nice on campus stadium before you kickoffs the first game. Then you hire a head coach whose had some success at the level you hope to compete at. Concurrently run well publicized fundraising campaigns that will appeal to your alumni who don't already give. Get rid of any alcohol restrictions that would prevent people from tailgating the way they're used to doing it at say an SEC game. Voilla you're ready to kick off.
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that's a recipe for disaster in the Tri Cities.
 
#62
#62
I am an ETSU alum. I was a student when the football program got axed. The mini dome stunk, literally. No one cared about the team and it was absolutely a drain on the school. The very next semester after it was gone the improvements started. New computers, class rooms with suites of new tech, the dorms improved. My wife is a current student and the improvements mentioned in this thread are absolutely true. It's amazing it took so long to get a parking garage. It didn't go before and nothing has changed to make me think it will go now. They let the students vote on it a while back and they voted against it. The University went around the student body and brought it back. I live in JC, no one is talking about the new football team...no one.
 
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#63
#63
RowdyZ said:
First&Tenn said:
As an ETSU alum, I


. Plus you could have a good venue through renovation or new building much cheaper than a football stadium.

QUOTE]


In Johnson City we have the Mini Dome and Freedom Hall both around 35 years old. I am not sure pouring money into either is a good long term idea.
As for building an basketball arena it is far far more expense then building a football stadium. A football stadium can be built in stages if and when more room is needed, you can't do that with a basketball arena.
First stage of the ETSU football stadium is between 18-20 million a basketball arena would be at least 3 times that much.
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I know that the Mini-Dome is definitely not a long-term solution, but my point was that at least the infrastructure is there for basketball. Why start up football when you can't even put a basketball team on the court that can win consistently in the ASun or draw a decent crowd on a regular basis?

Also, a small but well designed basketball arena isn't that much more expensive than what you suggested they will spend on the football stadium, while it has much more potential to generate revenue than a football stadium as volfanbill suggested. For instance, McCarthey Athletic Center (Gonzaga's arena built about 10 years ago) had a cost of $25 million. With 6,000 seats (capacity of McCarthey), ETSU could book concerts and other events that would offset the cost difference over a number of years.
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#64
#64
Also, a small but well designed basketball arena isn't that much more expensive than what you suggested they will spend on the football stadium, while it has much more potential to generate revenue than a football stadium as volfanbill suggested. For instance, McCarthey Athletic Center (Gonzaga's arena built about 10 years ago) had a cost of $25 million. With 6,000 seats (capacity of McCarthey), ETSU could book concerts and other events that would offset the cost difference over a number of years.
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That was 10 years ago.

look at what they are costing to build NOW.

ETSU currently plays in the A-Sun. The two newest arena's in our league are Mercer @ 40 Million with seating of 3,500 and Northern Kentucky @ 64 Million with seating for 9,400 so saying a new arena for ETSU would cost 50-60 million isn't much of stretch.
 
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#65
#65
ETSU is moving back to the Southern Conference next year and they have let it be known that they want ETSU to play basketball at Freedom Hall. The place is a bigger dump then the Mini Dome. I have seen seats held together with duct tape and ceiling tiles falling isn't unheard of, it will take a lot of money to get that place in shape.
 
#66
#66
volfanbill said:
How come once they dropped football and were finally able to concentrate more on other programs, were they finally able to raise funds and find donors for a new tennis center, new soccer facilities, a new baseball stadium and a new softball stadium? Oh yeah, because they were able to salvage the money better instead of letting it burn on a football team that was going nowhere.
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Everybody thought that there would be a new basketball arena and that the basketball team would sky-rocket into a great mid-major.

It didn't.

I am an alum and former instructor at ETSU. I'm going to manage to attend ETSU and UT games. I know many others who will as well. Properly executed, football can be successful and can be a boon to JC's economy, IMO.

Edit: Also, I am not the oldest person on this forum (I assume), but I recall ETSU having some success when Mike Cavan was the coach.
 
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#67
#67
Kurtastrophe said:
I recall ETSU having some success when Mike Cavan was the coach.
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Cavan had 2 winning seasons out of five. His overall record was 30-27 and he was probably the best coach ETSU ever had. For his two winning seasons, one was a 6-5 campaign; the other a 10-3 run (his last year before taking the job at SMU).

Mike Cavan - Wikipedia

Aside from that one 10-3 season, I can't remember ETSU having any other "good" seasons. At best, we were middle-of-the-pack in the Southern Conference; and honestly, we were probably slightly below that.

I get the "if it's done right, it can be profitable" argument, but given ETSU's total lack of tradition, coupled with lack of resources and fan support, the odds don't seem terribly great.
 
#68
#68
They can work the schedule to try for home games when UT is on the road, road games when UT is at home. Day games when UT to is playing at night or the other way around. Try and fit homecoming during a bye week for UT. There are lots of way to lessen the impact.
 
#69
#69
RollinVol said:
If I was a parent who didn't make a lot of money. If I wanted to take my boys out for a father and son outing. I would probably be able to do 3 etsu games compared to 1 UT game. I'll take them to ETSU to spend some quality time.
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That's a big factor of why the past few years myself and my dad have gone to a number of UTC games. The Mocs are not at the level of UTK, but they aren't the worst team in the world, and they did okay this year, both games I went to the Mocs won.

It's cheaper than a UTK by a considerable amount, somewhat easier about parking and getting access to the stadium, and generally not a bad experience.

ETSU may not be a championship team starting out, but that doesn't mean they will be bad. Another big factor, even if the football team only does so so, depending on how much revenue can be generated, this could see more money and resources making it's way to some of the lower profile sports, like golf, tennis, cross country, etc.
 
#70
#70
volfanbill said:
Appy St also has a statewide following. ETSU doesn't and will not. I see more Appy St gear and tags around the Triangle than I do any other North Carolina School minus NC State and East Carolina. Appy St gear is far more abundant than Duke, Wake Forest or, yes even any of the UNC schools, to include the one here in Chapel Hill.
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Appalachian state also has very recent history being very dominant in I-AA football, winning three NCAA Titles and the major upset against Michigan.

How where things in North Carolina a decade or so prior to their mid 2000s success? How are things now that they've somewhat slid from their high point?
 
#71
#71
ChattaVoll said:
Appalachian state also has very recent history being very dominant in I-AA football, winning three NCAA Titles and the major upset against Michigan.

How where things in North Carolina a decade or so prior to their mid 2000s success? How are things now that they've somewhat slid from their high point?
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uh, I'm talking about right now. Duh. If I could somehow make it out tonight in this mess, I would see Appy St stuff 4-1 to UNC stuff. Maybe more.
 
#72
#72
ChattaVoll said:
ETSU may not be a championship team starting out, but that doesn't mean they will be bad. Another big factor, even if the football team only does so so, depending on how much revenue can be generated, this could see more money and resources making it's way to some of the lower profile sports, like golf, tennis, cross country, etc.
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How? If they lose money in football, how is that going to push more money to other sports?
 
#73
#73
One thing you guys have to remember is that the cost of borrowing money practically zero right now.That may not last much longer and if we have a little inflation as the economy heats up, as we will if that ever happens, it'll pretty much be as if you are being paid to borrow money. If anyone is ever going to expand facilities now is the time. That's why you're seeing the building boom at universities all over the region. It's a great time to build dorms and football stadiums from the borrowers standpoint plus it creates a few jobs.
 
#74
#74
VolunteerHillbilly said:
One thing you guys have to remember is that the cost of borrowing money practically zero right now.That may not last much longer and if we have a little inflation as the economy heats up, as we will if that ever happens, it'll pretty much be as if you are being paid to borrow money. If anyone is ever going to expand facilities now is the time. That's why you're seeing the building boom at universities all over the region. It's a great time to build dorms and football stadiums from the borrowers standpoint plus it creates a few jobs.
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You're absolutely correct. The interest rate on a home is around 4%. Colleges probably get cheaper rates from lenders.
 
#75
#75
VolunteerHillbilly said:
One thing you guys have to remember is that the cost of borrowing money practically zero right now.That may not last much longer and if we have a little inflation as the economy heats up, as we will if that ever happens, it'll pretty much be as if you are being paid to borrow money. If anyone is ever going to expand facilities now is the time. That's why you're seeing the building boom at universities all over the region. It's a great time to build dorms and football stadiums from the borrowers standpoint plus it creates a few jobs.
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If the ROA is -20%, it doesn't matter if the interest rate is 0%, it's still a bad investment. No idea what the ROA on ETSU's football investment will be, but I suspect it will be very negative based on prior experience.
 
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