Excitement

#76
#76
bleedingTNorange said:
So CCM walked into a worse situation, in a lesser basketball program, that doesn't have a hot bed in its backyard...and yet in year 1 matched Pastners year 1 success. Correct?
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Yes, while having three year's more HC experience. That's pretty much what DB and I have been trying to get you to admit this entire time.
 
#77
#77
MemphisCanes said:
Yes, while having three year's more HC experience. That's pretty much what DB and I have been trying to get you to admit this entire time.
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That CCM has done a much better job in his first year at Tennessee than Pastner did his first year at Memphis?

That's what you've been trying to get me to admit?
 
#79
#79
bleedingTNorange said:
Uhm yea. I think it'd take a pretty dumb person to say UT basketball program was > than the Memphis program in Cals last year compared to Pearls.

Immediate expectations were much higher for pastner than Martin, if you can't recognize that I suggest you be a bit more subjective.
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We aren't talking Cal and Pearl, BTO.

We are talking two programs starting over under new, inexperienced HC's.

The second point in the quote is absurd; Pastner had little to nothing his 1st yr. Expectations were high they would be able to practice 5-on-5 (walk-on's) and finish the season. Period
 
#80
#80
MemphisCanes said:
Really? How? Both missed the tournament.
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Well they both basically had same results...

Yet CCM did it with many disadvantages...an ongoing investigation, not having Memphis in his backyard to pick from, a lesser basketball program, not having the benefit of being on the staff the previous year....the list goes on.

CCM was at a disadvantage compared to Pastner going into both of their first years, yet CCM matched Pastner's success....does that not make what CCM did more impressive that what pastner did?
 
#81
#81
dixiebullfrog said:
We aren't talking Cal and Pearl, BTO.

We are talking two programs starting over under new, inexperienced HC's.

The second point in the quote is absurd; Pastner had little to nothing his 1st yr. Expectations were high they would be able to practice 5-on-5 (walk-on's) and finish the season. Period
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So a guy walks into Kentucky, and his twin walks into Illinois...expectations are the same because they start at the same time.

There were many advantages to the Memphis job Pastner got that CCM didn't have the luxury of.

Once again, I don't expect you to admit this though.
 
#82
#82
bleedingTNorange said:
Well they both basically had same results...

Yet CCM did it with many disadvantages...an ongoing investigation, (Which Memphis had, remember D. Rose?)

not having Memphis in his backyard to pick from, (Doesn't do either any good in their first year)

a lesser basketball program (With more money and exposure in a premeire conference)

not having the benefit of being on the staff the previous year (You mean, having to coach the kids as a Head Coach that you were just goofing around with as an assistant and expecting them to take you seriously?)....the list goes on.

CCM was at a disadvantage compared to Pastner going into both of their first years, yet CCM matched Pastner's success....does that not make what CCM did more impressive that what pastner did?
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If anyone was at a disadvantage, it was Pastner for having zero years of HC experience, as opposed to Martin's 3.

Adn again, the relative power of each program and the recruiting base doesn't come into play during the first year.
 
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#83
#83
MemphisCanes said:
No, I try not to take expectations into account. Expectations are subjective and frankly, dumb. You twist both expectations to your benefit by implying that: A) Memphis underperformed because of coaching and not because expectations were off because talent was overestimated; and B) Tennessee overperformed because of coaching and not because espectations were off because talent was underestimated.

Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

When viewed objectively, Pastner took a team made up of almost solely freshmen that he recruited in his second term as HC to the NCAAs, and improved upon that in his third year.

You denegrate Pastner for this, yet hold out that should Martin do it with a more experienced team, he deserves adulation and a bump in pay.
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Good word drop.
 
#84
#84
MemphisCanes said:
If anyone was at a disadvantage, it was Pastner for having zero years of HC experience, as opposed to Martin's 3.

Adn again, the relative power of each program and the recruiting base doesn't come into play during the first year.
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I'm gonna stop now simply out of respect for everyone else...you've painted a black/white picture though...and for that I'm glad.

If Martin wins a NCAA game, he's hands down the better coach, in your opinion. No ifs ands or buts, that's your theory.
 
#86
#86
Jestes311 said:
Good word drop.

I don't think that's exactly what it means tho.

U Mad Bro?
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It is, I just didn't set it up very well. Viewing comparable situations in different ways to keep your belief system from fracturing.

Pastner Bad. Martin Good. Even if they have the same results, I must believe that they are different in order keep believing that Pastner Bad, Martin Good.

Isn't this better than the new coaching search forum?
 
#87
#87
bleedingTNorange said:
I'm gonna stop now simply out of respect for everyone else...you've painted a black/white picture though...and for that I'm glad.

If Martin wins a NCAA game, he's hands down the better coach, in your opinion. No ifs ands or buts, that's your theory.
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At this point, yeah, I don't see how a reasonable person could argue that, if he gets an NCAA win this season.

However, Pastner is young and has a lot of time to get better as a coach. Hell, he already has in his short time at Memphis.

I'm just trying to point out how dumb it is for UT fans to call Pastner an underachiever when Martin is in exactly the same boat.
 
#89
#89
MemphisCanes said:
It is, I just didn't set it up very well. Viewing comparable situations in different ways to keep your belief system from fracturing.

Pastner Bad. Martin Good. Even if they have the same results, I must believe that they are different in order keep believing that Pastner Bad, Martin Good.

Isn't this better than the new coaching search forum?
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Correct. I edited my post but you got it first.

p.s. This whole argument is racist.
 
#90
#90
MemphisCanes said:
At this point, yeah, I don't see how a reasonable person could argue that, if he gets an NCAA win this season.

However, Pastner is young and has a lot of time to get better as a coach. Hell, he already has in his short time at Memphis.

I'm just trying to point out how dumb it is for UT fans to call Pastner an underachiever when Martin is in exactly the same boat.
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I guess that's where we disagree, I don't think they're in "exactly" the same boat...I don't know that they're even in the same damn river.
 
#91
#91
bleedingTNorange said:
Well they both basically had same results... In year 2, not yr 1. If Martin, in his 2nd yr, gets to tourney and loses, same as bad-boy Pastner. If he wins, good for him; doesn't make him better coach. He simply has one more NCAA win in same time period.


Yet CCM did it with many disadvantages...an ongoing investigation, not having Memphis in his backyard to pick from, a lesser basketball program, not having the benefit of being on the staff the previous year....the list goes on.

The list doesn't go on or you would have included them.
- Memphis' backyard was always easy pickins (flash forward to present); can't use that.
- Lesser program - agree
- Being on staff --- really helped keep the '09 UM recruits away from UK, didn't it? Whooosh! Gone.... Recruiting for Pastner's 1st yr started around May/June prior to the '09 season. Picked up DJ Stephens, 300lb bus Pierre Henderson-Niles (later kicked off team), and Elliot Williams. Yeah, those recruiting contacts came through big-time. HA!

BTO - You know "BB", but I'm realizing you don't know UM basketball like you think you do. To gain the advantage, you're mixing up 1st and 2nd years, mixing up coaches and their results, and making false deductions that I'm not gonna chase.
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See you in January.
 
#93
#93
So Memphis fans are happy with the past 2 seasons under Pastner? That's honestly what I'm taking away from this thread.

If that's the case, they have much lower expectations than they should.

With the talent they have, they should have gone deep into the tourney last year. Clearly underperformed.
 
#95
#95
ranradVOL said:
So Memphis fans are happy with the past 2 seasons under Pastner? That's honestly what I'm taking away from this thread.

If that's the case, they have much lower expectations than they should.

With the talent they have, they should have gone deep into the tourney last year. Clearly underperformed.
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If you jumped in your Delorian and went back to find MemphisCanes in April of 2009:
- when Cal had just jumped ship for Kentucky,
- leaving us without a recruiting class
- but with an NCAA investigation, and
- Memphis had just hired a 30 year old HC with no experience...

and you told April 2009 Memphicanes that in 2012, the Tigers would've won two league tourney titles, one title outright in dominating fashion, had been to two consecutive NCAA tournies, signed the number two and number 4 recruiting classes, signed 4 McD's AAs and 6 5 star recruits.....

I'd have pooped my pants with excitement.

Sure, we don't have any National Championships in the past 3 seasons, and no NCAA tournament wins in Pastner first 3 years of coaching, but I'm pretty content with the direction of the ship under the new captain at this point. He's a long way from being offered a lifelong contract, but Pastner is doing well, all-things considered.
 
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