Explain your contempt for Erik Ainge?

#26
#26
Originally posted by OrangeEmpire@Dec 15, 2005 10:21 AM
Just a mere curiosity post, why do a lot of Tennessee fans not like Erik Ainge?

Did you like him his freshman season?

What turned you against him?

Get as deep as you want too on this one.

I.E.: I do not like Erik Ainge because he is from the North/West and the economic background of those living in that area is greater than in the South/East.

Or get as shallow as you want too.

I just think he sucks!
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in college it is what have u done for me lately.
 
#27
#27
in college it is what have u done for me lately.
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That is any level of competition in my opinion.

In a normal situation Ainge would have never started as a true freshman in the SEC. That is another gripe for another thread.

"All" quarterbacks should have to sit and learn, at the very least, a redshirt year before being thrown into the fire of the SEC.

Again this is just my opinion.
 
#28
#28
Changing quarterbacks can be a career changing experience for some players. When Norm Chow arrived at USC, Carson Palmer was coming off of his sophomore season where he threw 18 interceptions to just 16 touchdowns. His quarterback rating was 117.97 as he completed just under 55% of his attempts. Ironically, Palmer was coming back from a season ending injury his sophomore season. Under Chow's guidance, Palmer increased his quarterback rating to 124.17 and his completion percentage to 58.6% during his junior season while he threw 13 touchdowns and 12 interceptions. He was even much better his senior season, winning the heisman while completing 63.2% of his passes with a qb rating of 149.09, 33 touchdowns and only 10 interceptions.

If you trace Palmer's career qb rating, he started at a below avg 122.7, dropped even further to 117.97 after returning from an injury, and regained his previous form with a 124.17 when Chow arrived. He then improved to 149.09 and won the Heisman.

The latest quarterback to increase his performance after playing under a new coach is Brady Quinn of Notre Dame. Last season, Quinn had a qb rating of 125.87 while completing just under 55% of his passes. He had 17 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. This season, under Weiss (and partially under Cutcliffe), he has completed 65% of his attempts with 32 touchdowns and 7 interceptions for a qb rating of 162.91.

If you trace Quinn's performance, he started with a pitiful 93.53, improved to an below average 125.87, and under Cutcliffe/Weiss improved to 162.91 this past season.

Ainge has a career qb rating of 116.47. However, his rating dipped to 89.94 this past season. That low of rating is hard to do. That is probably the worst qb rating for a starter at Tennessee in the last 30 years. It takes alot to dip below 100 in qb rating. His freshman qb rating of 135.89 is better than all but Palmer's heisman season and Quinn's season this year. At the least, I would expect his rating to be in the 130s next season. Looking over some past performances for UT quarterbacks, a somewhat average season will get into the 120s.

Looking back at past season's when Cutcliffe was the Offensive Coordinator, I expect the starting qb to get about 350 passing attempts. At a 60% completion percentage and 7 yards per attempt, the yardage equates to 2450 yards. Only one quarterback under Cutcliffe with less than 350 attempts has had over 10 interceptions in a season (Cutcliffe's first season as quarterbacks coach in 1990, Andy Kelly had 14 interceptions in 304 attempts). 23 TDs and 8 interceptions would give a rating of 135.91... back to where he was before his injury. I would expect the Vols to emphasize the run and then pass with Ainge getting somewhere near 210-of-350 for 2450 yards, 23 TDs and 8 ints.
 
#29
#29
Originally posted by allvol@Dec 16, 2005 11:35 AM
Changing quarterbacks can be a career changing experience for some players.  When Norm Chow arrived at USC, Carson Palmer was coming off of his sophomore season where he threw 18 interceptions to just 16 touchdowns.  His quarterback rating was 117.97 as he completed just under 55% of his attempts.  Ironically, Palmer was coming back from a season ending injury his sophomore season.  Under Chow's guidance, Palmer increased his quarterback rating to 124.17 and his completion percentage to 58.6% during his junior season while he threw 13 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.  He was even much better his senior season, winning the heisman while completing 63.2% of his passes with a qb rating of 149.09, 33 touchdowns and only 10 interceptions.

If you trace Palmer's career qb rating, he started at a below avg 122.7, dropped even further to 117.97 after returning from an injury, and regained his previous form with a 124.17 when Chow arrived.  He then improved to 149.09 and won the Heisman.

The latest quarterback to increase his performance after playing under a new coach is Brady Quinn of Notre Dame.  Last season, Quinn had a qb rating of 125.87 while completing just under 55% of his passes.  He had 17 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.  This season, under Weiss (and partially under Cutcliffe), he has completed 65% of his attempts with 32 touchdowns and 7 interceptions for a qb rating of 162.91.

If you trace Quinn's performance, he started with a pitiful 93.53, improved to an below average 125.87, and under Cutcliffe/Weiss improved to 162.91 this past season.

Ainge has a career qb rating of 116.47.  However, his rating dipped to 89.94 this past season. That low of rating is hard to do. That is probably the worst qb rating for a starter at Tennessee in the last 30 years.  It takes alot to dip below 100 in qb rating.  His freshman qb rating of 135.89 is better than all but Palmer's heisman season and Quinn's season this year.  At the least, I would expect his rating to be in the 130s next season.  Looking over some past performances for UT quarterbacks, a somewhat average season will get into the 120s. 

Looking back at past season's when Cutcliffe was the Offensive Coordinator, I expect the starting qb to get about 350 passing attempts. At a 60% completion percentage and 7 yards per attempt, the yardage equates to 2450 yards.  Only one quarterback under Cutcliffe with less than 350 attempts has had over 10 interceptions in a season (Cutcliffe's first season as quarterbacks coach in 1990, Andy Kelly had 14 interceptions in 304 attempts).  23 TDs and 8 interceptions would give a rating of 135.91... back to where he was before his injury.  I would expect the Vols to emphasize the run and then pass with Ainge getting somewhere near 210-of-350 for 2450 yards, 23 TDs and 8 ints.
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These are uncomparible. Quinn and Palmer, no matter how terrible their freshman year ratings, showed continual improvement. Ainge is regressing...something Quinn and Palmer never did, under any coach! To state with certainty that Ainge is going to bounce back from below 90s to the 130s is absurd. Yes, he may do it, but he also may continue to regress. He is not in the same situation that Quinn and Palmer were in when their new coaches came, they were already improving.
 
#30
#30
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 11:21 AM
These are uncomparible.  Quinn and Palmer, no matter how terrible their freshman year ratings, showed continual improvement.  Ainge is regressing...something Quinn and Palmer never did, under any coach!  To state with certainty that Ainge is going to bounce back from below 90s to the 130s is absurd.  Yes, he may do it, but he also may continue to regress.  He is not in the same situation that Quinn and Palmer were in when their new coaches came, they were already improving.
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If he may do it then where is the absurdity?
 
#31
#31
Originally posted by Lexvol@Dec 16, 2005 12:31 PM
If he may do it then where is the absurdity?
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The absurdity is that Quinn and Palmer showed continual improvement throughout their career. Even if Ainge wins the Heisman next year, it's not continual improvement...therefore you can't compare the first seasons of Quinn and Palmer with Ainge.
 
#32
#32
I think the point was that the qb's got better after some good coaching showed up...and the comparison is that both quinn and palmer were not the caliber players they are today early on in thier career. which will hopefully be the same for EA.

 
#33
#33
Sonofajohn, I don't think you are considering that in the cases of Quinn and Palmer, they were settled in thier positions. Ainge was never placed in a situation where he could settle in and improve. If he secures the job this spring, he should show considerable improvement. I would not be surprised if turned out to be the second best QB in the SEC next year.
 
#34
#34
Well under the tutelage of Randy Sanders anyone can regress.

Regression as you put it could be caused by a number of factors: coming off an injury, poor coaches pushing poor development, time in the game, offensive line actions, receiver actions or inactions, etc.

And regression of one season is no reason to write off a QB either. If that's your theory then the whole team with all of that talent, experience, and leadership regressed and with your logic we should write off the whole team for this regression.
 
#35
#35
Originally posted by CSpindizzy@Dec 16, 2005 11:53 AM
Well under the tutelage of Randy Sanders anyone can regress.

Regression as you put it could be caused by a number of factors: coming off an injury, poor coaches pushing poor development, time in the game, offensive line actions, receiver actions or inactions, etc.

And regression of one season is no reason to write off a QB either. If that's your theory then the whole team with all of that talent, experience, and leadership regressed and with your logic we should write off the whole team for this regression.
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Agree 100%
 
#36
#36
Were Palmer and Quinn ever in the situation that Ainge has been in with regards to quarterback rotations?

Do you think Palmer or Quinn would have regressed if a rotating quarterback situation would have been in place?

Is it possible to compare Randy Sanders tutelage to Norm Chow, Charlie Weiss or Ty Willingham?

Final question is the glass half full or half empty?

In other words are you an eternal optimist where you find the good?

Or are you eternal pessimists who points out failure in others?

I am positive personality traits would explain the viewpoints of where most come from.

Then we can discuss each others childhood fears and other important topics of the heart. :dunno:
 
#38
#38
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 2:05 PM
The absurdity is that Quinn and Palmer showed continual improvement throughout their career.  Even if Ainge wins the Heisman next year, it's not continual improvement
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Uh, like, who would care if its "continual improvement" if he wins the Heisman?

Outside of you, of course. :eek:lol: :eek:lol: :w00t:

Not statistically speaking,

wilburn
 
#39
#39
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 12:34 PM
Again, CUTCLIFFE MADE NO REFERENCE TO AINGE'S NFL ABILITIES!!!
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Prove it. That comment even made The Podcast. :post-20645-1119625378: :post-20645-1119625378: :post-20645-1119625378:
 
#40
#40
Do you ever wonder if some of the members on this web board suffer from "cranial rectal incarnation?"

:thumbsup:
 
#41
#41
Originally posted by CSpindizzy@Dec 16, 2005 12:53 PM
Well under the tutelage of Randy Sanders anyone can regress.

Regression as you put it could be caused by a number of factors: coming off an injury, poor coaches pushing poor development, time in the game, offensive line actions, receiver actions or inactions, etc.

And regression of one season is no reason to write off a QB either. If that's your theory then the whole team with all of that talent, experience, and leadership regressed and with your logic we should write off the whole team for this regression.
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There is a huge difference between writing the team off and not comparing them to Quinn and Palmer.
 
#42
#42
Originally posted by TBALLVOL@Dec 16, 2005 12:51 PM
Sonofajohn, I don't think you are considering that in the cases of Quinn and Palmer, they were settled in thier positions. Ainge was never placed in a situation where he could settle in and improve. If he secures the job this spring, he should show considerable improvement. I would not be surprised if turned out to be the second best QB in the SEC next year.
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You are proving my point that you cannot compare these people. They are in completely different situations and going in opposite directions. If Ainge turns it around under Cut and wins the Heisman, he is still not comparable to Palmer and Quinn.
 
#43
#43
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 1:51 PM
These are uncomparible.  Quinn and Palmer, no matter how terrible their freshman year ratings, showed continual improvement.  Ainge is regressing...something Quinn and Palmer never did, under any coach!  To state with certainty that Ainge is going to bounce back from below 90s to the 130s is absurd.  Yes, he may do it, but he also may continue to regress.
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Regress, how much worse can he get? If he gets 6,004.9304 cubed of a tenth of 1% worse, he will never play collegiate football again.

Statistically evidentiary,


wilburn
 
#44
#44
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 2:47 PM
You are proving my point that you cannot compare these people.  They are in completely different situations and going in opposite directions.  If Ainge turns it around under Cut and wins the Heisman, he is still not comparable to Palmer and Quinn.
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What you are saying is that in the Eyes Of God, we are all individuals?

Not statistics? Does anyone have a guitar and a campfire?

http://www.peterpaulandmary.com/music/20-13.htm

Kneeling,


wilburn
 
#45
#45
You are proving my point that you cannot compare these people. They are in completely different situations and going in opposite directions. If Ainge turns it around under Cut and wins the Heisman, he is still not comparable to Palmer and Quinn.
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It is impossible to judge Ainge against any one. He has started the equivalent of one college season and has not played the entire time in those games. *Oh yeah and he is a kid. Shame on him for making mistakes and not being able to handle pressure!*

People who are posing the argument are drawing similarities from Palmer and Quinn and applying them to Ainge.

That is where the difference of opinion comes in.

In the end we can only compare similarities of Ainge to Palmer and Quinn after Ainge finishes his playing career.

Palmer had two years with Chow and Quinn has had a year with Weiss.

Regardless of past performance Ainge is getting a new start with Cut just as Palmer with Chow and Quinn with Weiss.

Give Ainge a little slack if he plays well it is not the end of the world. Unless you dislike him that much then it will not matter what he does.
 
#46
#46
And he's not comparable to Manning either....who cares? Is there a law saying all UT QB's must be comparable or always compared to Quinn and Palmer?

This has strayed so far off the point, we're in the ocean here. The point is that with good coaching, there is a possibility of Ainge completely turning this thing around and doing much better next year. It's a matter of people having confidence in Cut and hope in Ainge. Picking a few QB's out there and comparing stats isn't accurate. But naming a few QB's and saying there are examples of OC's helping QB's greatly improve is accurate and a good example.
 
#47
#47
Originally posted by sonofajohn@Dec 16, 2005 12:15 PM
There is a huge difference between writing the team off and not comparing them to Quinn and Palmer.
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Can you make a post without being stuck on Palmer and Quinn? Do you have some fetish for them? Other people have moved on and even blocked mentions of Palmer and Quinn. But yet you keep bringing them up.
 
#48
#48
Comparing the tuteledge is completely fair.

Chow with Palmer

Weiss with Quinn

Only time will tell with Cut and Ainge.
 
#49
#49
Think the contempt for Ainge comes from his demeanor. He is a (right?) mormon white kid with somewhat of an attitude. His attitude makes him seem distant. He ain't from the south and a good ole boy. Just for this alot of folks don't like him. Especially when things go wrong. Didn't here any anti-Ainge talk in his Freshman year when he was doing all of the right things and making the big plays. My money is on a turn around next season directly attributed to Cut's coaching.
 
#50
#50
Originally posted by allvol@Dec 16, 2005 10:35 AM
Changing quarterbacks can be a career changing experience for some players.  When Norm Chow arrived at USC, Carson Palmer was coming off of his sophomore season where he threw 18 interceptions to just 16 touchdowns.  His quarterback rating was 117.97 as he completed just under 55% of his attempts.  Ironically, Palmer was coming back from a season ending injury his sophomore season.  Under Chow's guidance, Palmer increased his quarterback rating to 124.17 and his completion percentage to 58.6% during his junior season while he threw 13 touchdowns and 12 interceptions.  He was even much better his senior season, winning the heisman while completing 63.2% of his passes with a qb rating of 149.09, 33 touchdowns and only 10 interceptions.

If you trace Palmer's career qb rating, he started at a below avg 122.7, dropped even further to 117.97 after returning from an injury, and regained his previous form with a 124.17 when Chow arrived.  He then improved to 149.09 and won the Heisman.

The latest quarterback to increase his performance after playing under a new coach is Brady Quinn of Notre Dame.  Last season, Quinn had a qb rating of 125.87 while completing just under 55% of his passes.  He had 17 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.  This season, under Weiss (and partially under Cutcliffe), he has completed 65% of his attempts with 32 touchdowns and 7 interceptions for a qb rating of 162.91.

If you trace Quinn's performance, he started with a pitiful 93.53, improved to an below average 125.87, and under Cutcliffe/Weiss improved to 162.91 this past season.

Ainge has a career qb rating of 116.47.  However, his rating dipped to 89.94 this past season. That low of rating is hard to do. That is probably the worst qb rating for a starter at Tennessee in the last 30 years.  It takes alot to dip below 100 in qb rating.  His freshman qb rating of 135.89 is better than all but Palmer's heisman season and Quinn's season this year.  At the least, I would expect his rating to be in the 130s next season.  Looking over some past performances for UT quarterbacks, a somewhat average season will get into the 120s. 

Looking back at past season's when Cutcliffe was the Offensive Coordinator, I expect the starting qb to get about 350 passing attempts. At a 60% completion percentage and 7 yards per attempt, the yardage equates to 2450 yards.  Only one quarterback under Cutcliffe with less than 350 attempts has had over 10 interceptions in a season (Cutcliffe's first season as quarterbacks coach in 1990, Andy Kelly had 14 interceptions in 304 attempts).  23 TDs and 8 interceptions would give a rating of 135.91... back to where he was before his injury.  I would expect the Vols to emphasize the run and then pass with Ainge getting somewhere near 210-of-350 for 2450 yards, 23 TDs and 8 ints.
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the constant blah is getting old.
 
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