Explosions in Norway

#52
#52
rockytop9808 said:
They blew up the oil building. Could it not have been eco-terrorists unhappy with the government?

The government's also on the left side of the spectrum. Ultra right-wing groups have made attacks in recent memory, as well. Could it not have been a right-wing fringe group?

Narrowing it down instantly to one group is questionable, at best. Think about it- if the Oklahoma City bombings had happened a year ago, how many people would have instantly jumped to the conclusion that it was an Islamic-led terror attack?
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Could it be eco-terrorists? Yes. Was there a recent change in policy or approach that this might have been in protest to? That's what I'd look into.

Could it have been a right-wing group? Sure. Have their been other Norwegian right wing terrorist acts? That's what I'd look into.

As for McVeigh, if it happened a year ago it would have likely been initially suspected that Islamists were responsible. However if it happened a year and 4 months ago - say on the anniversary of Waco then perhaps another motivation would have risen to the top. See, there was a direct link between the bombing and government actions.

So, here we have a recent controversial action against an Islamic figure along with fairly recent publishing of cartoons deemed highly offensive to Islam. Couple that with 10+ years of ongoing Islamic terrorist bombings and I think it's reasonable to put Islamic terrorists at the top of the suspect list.

That doesn't mean you conclude they did it; it does mean that without further info they are at the top of the suspect list.
 
#54
#54
volinbham said:
Could it be eco-terrorists? Yes. Was there a recent change in policy or approach that this might have been in protest to? That's what I'd look into.

Could it have been a right-wing group? Sure. Have their been other Norwegian right wing terrorist acts? That's what I'd look into.

As for McVeigh, if it happened a year ago it would have likely been initially suspected that Islamists were responsible. However if it happened a year and 4 months ago - say on the anniversary of Waco then perhaps another motivation would have risen to the top. See, there was a direct link between the bombing and government actions.

So, here we have a recent controversial action against an Islamic figure along with fairly recent publishing of cartoons deemed highly offensive to Islam. Couple that with 10+ years of ongoing Islamic terrorist bombings and I think it's reasonable to put Islamic terrorists at the top of the suspect list.

That doesn't mean you conclude they did it; it does mean that without further info they are at the top of the suspect list.
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The cartoons were Danish, published in Denmark, right?
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#55
#55
therealUT said:
The cartoons were Danish, published in Denmark, right?
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Apparently they were reprinted in Norway

A second possible factor behind the attack is a Norwegian newspaper's reprinting in 2006 of a series of Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad, which prompted threats against the country.
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Oslo bomb: suspicion falls on Islamist militants | World news | guardian.co.uk

Also from that article:

Oslo police have confirmed the source of the blast that damaged the prime minister's offices in Oslo was a bomb. The question now is who is likely to be behind it.

The most obvious conclusion would be a jihadist group.
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#56
#56
volinbham said:
Could it be eco-terrorists? Yes. Was there a recent change in policy or approach that this might have been in protest to? That's what I'd look into.

Could it have been a right-wing group? Sure. Have their been other Norwegian right wing terrorist acts? That's what I'd look into.

As for McVeigh, if it happened a year ago it would have likely been initially suspected that Islamists were responsible. However if it happened a year and 4 months ago - say on the anniversary of Waco then perhaps another motivation would have risen to the top. See, there was a direct link between the bombing and government actions.

So, here we have a recent controversial action against an Islamic figure along with fairly recent publishing of cartoons deemed highly offensive to Islam. Couple that with 10+ years of ongoing Islamic terrorist bombings and I think it's reasonable to put Islamic terrorists at the top of the suspect list.

That doesn't mean you conclude they did it; it does mean that without further info they are at the top of the suspect list.
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The guy who shot up the camp was a blonde Norwegian. I'd say that fits more with the political side, but could he be an Islamic extremist? Sure, why not?
 
#57
#57
rockytop9808 said:
The guy who shot up the camp was a blonde Norwegian. I'd say that fits more with the political side, but could he be an Islamic extremist? Sure, why not?
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So your view is to not speculate at all until what point?

What is the problem with suspecting Islamic terrorists?

Do you believe that Norwegian law enforcement isn't rank ordering the potential suspects?
 
#58
#58
rockytop9808 said:
The guy who shot up the camp was a blonde Norwegian. I'd say that fits more with the political side, but could he be an Islamic extremist? Sure, why not?
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If it turns out to have been an internal politically motivated bombing, how long will it take LG to find a way to find Bachmann and Palin in some way responsible?
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#59
#59
I dag er vi alle norske - Today, we're all Norwegian.
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#60
#60
volinbham said:
So your view is to not speculate at all until what point?

What is the problem with suspecting Islamic terrorists?

Do you believe that Norwegian law enforcement isn't rank ordering the potential suspects?
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I think law enforcement should wait to label suspects until it has built a thorough investigative foundation. Certainly, this could be the work of Islamist militants; just as well, it could be the work of radical political factions; heck, it could even be a collaboration between th groups. As I stated earlier though, I do not think it was the work of the group who has claimed responsibility.
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#63
#63
To TrUT and Rockytop - why the defensiveness about speculating this is work of Islamic terrorists? Also, what do you think is the genesis of the Guardian article linked that suggests indeed that speculation surrounds Islamic terrorists?
 
#64
#64
volinbham said:
So your view is to not speculate at all until what point?

What is the problem with suspecting Islamic terrorists?

Do you believe that Norwegian law enforcement isn't rank ordering the potential suspects?
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They've already arrested people at the Oslo airport.

They've also probably got real evidence to speculate on, not third-party media reports, which is all anyone on this board has.
 
#65
#65
volinbham said:
To TrUT and Rockytop - why the defensiveness about speculating this is work of Islamic terrorists? Also, what do you think is the genesis of the Guardian article linked that suggests indeed that speculation surrounds Islamic terrorists?
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I think it is dangerous to just jump to conclusions in such a rash manner. Information operations and propaganda techniques stress that the first reports, whether accurate of wholly false, build the impressions that last. We dealt with this a lot in Iraq. Therefore, correcting previously inaccurate reports is no as easy as simply printing a retraction. I am not advocating that anyone reject the possibility that this might have been carried out by Islamist militants; I am advocating tactical patience until firmer evidence has been established.
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#69
#69
volinbham said:
To TrUT and Rockytop - why the defensiveness about speculating this is work of Islamic terrorists? Also, what do you think is the genesis of the Guardian article linked that suggests indeed that speculation surrounds Islamic terrorists?
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He is always very defensive when one says something negative about or accuses Islamic terrorists of something
 
#71
#71
I take it Paul Krugman isn't going to jump in and claim that this attack was a direct result of the vicious nature of Norway's Tea Party movement and the rampant gun culture that permeates Scandinavia.
 
#75
#75
See this is where I think the problem is. It is possible to suspect this is the work of Islamic terrorists without making commentary about the Muslim religion and it's followers as a whole.

It's like we are in this crazy PC world where any suggestion that Islamic extremists are involved it is akin to condemning all Muslims.

For Pete's sake, a guy from the Peace Institute of Oslo (or some such government office) said their first speculation is that this is the work of AQ because of recent threats, and perceived provocations.

The suicide bombing in Sweden recently was directly linked to the group that has claimed responsibility for this.
 
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