Face it, we suck at picking head coaches

[VOLnMiami]

Keep in mind they were going hard after Clemson’s OC and would have hired him over Heupel. He appears to be an absolute disaster.

That scared me to death...Had a bad bad feeling about him and when i heard we were going hard after him my heart sank...Thank goodness he turned us down and now he is proving to be a bust and can only coach 5* talent and no more...Hell he may not even be there if he keeps stinking it up over there.

 

[volinvegas]

You pukes are miserable. There is not a single Coach in the Country who could have done what Heupel has done so far. WTF is wrong with you people ? Are you the type that just thinks they know more than people actually getting paid to make the decisions ? Just be honest.

This point exactly, WTF guys, why are we talking coaching searches the day after our new coach get his first top 25 win at Tennessee? This post is straight up disrespectful to Coach Huep even if you say you support him after 3 encyclopedias of explanation, WTF, just enjoy the big win damn it!!!

 

[over60vol]

Hopefully coach Heup can recruit on an SEC level and that goes with the staff as well. Speaking of the staff it will be very important to keep the current staff in place at least for a couple of more years. Rodney Garner is the first that comes to mind, I know some will point to Walter Nolan but you can't always hit a home run. Garner is one of the best Def line coaches if not the best in the country. I think he should get a nice raise after this first year. Recruiting will tell the tale if we have a championship coach or not.

 

[livefaith]

Vol82 are we getting the ...

... here? If we go 7-5, most will call that a success in yr1. But we have 0s so far on several metrics that will need to be accomplished before we have a "championship coach". Maybe we should just be thankful that our season is not the unmitigated disaater that it could have been and look forward w hope to the next step w our new staff.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

I think Mullen would have been fine here or staying in Mississippi State. Florida is the wrong place for him.

If he can't do it at a place with ten times the instate talent available why do you think he would succeed here?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Because at the core, we fired a coach with unknown of paying his buyout or not while essentially buying UCF’s AD and Football Coach. Seemed like a lazy hire and search.

Seems to have worked great

 

[Rickyvol77]

The only option from the list before JH would have been Freeze. He’s at Liberty for goodness sake and he’s turned them into a winner immediately! In January given the choice I honestly would have taken him. Now no way now! JH and ride!

Just stop. Freeze is a loser and a cheater. Had a losing SEC record

 

[Rickyvol77]

​

First off, I’m very happy with Heupel. Glad he is here. But if you had me trade him with anyone on that list, I’d take Harbaugh in a minute. Yes there are points that he has a ceiling. But what no one talks about is his floor. The guy will always have a solid team, recruiting, and stout defense. His offenses are boring but they are mean and ball control.

While his record against the two rivals sucks, it’s very rare that he has a bad season where bowl season is completely out of the question. Last year is an asterisk season for obvious reasons. Take out Covid season where they didn’t play full season, his lowest win season is 8 wins and he’s on the verge of winning 10 games for a 4th time in 7 seasons.

I would kill for those W/L records compared to where we were with Dooley/Butch/Pruitt.

Harbaugh may have a mental block with Ohio State and Michigan State. However at Tennessee the past decade, winning our two rival games of Florida and Georgia (only rivals we actually have won some) haven’t been one of the top goals going into every year. It’s always been fighting for bowl eligibility for basically 9 of the last 11 seasons. How many times have we started threads about next season’s W/L record along lines of “here are the 6 games we should be able to compete in to try for a bowl”

I love Heupel and he’s two recruiting classes away from being able to hold expectations to go toe to toe with Bama and Georgia while Florida is teetering.

Michigan year in and year out doesn’t go into season fighting for bowl eligibility. That’s a given. Harbaugh would not be a popular coach but I have zero doubt that he would win here to where we are competing with a 9-10 win regular season floor more times than not. If Heupel does that after what we had the last decade, God Bless than Man

Harbaugh can’t even win titles against a mediocre schedule. He will be fired within 2 seasons at Michigan

 

[JMSqb11]

Harbaugh can’t even win titles against a mediocre schedule. He will be fired within 2 seasons at Michigan

The only way Harbaugh leaves Michigan is if the right NFL job opens up for him....... At the end of the day, Michigan will always be competing for double digit win season under Harbaugh more times than not.......

And yes, I would kill to have a coach that we know going into the season that winning our rivalry games are the floor for the season expectations....... Tennessee has had those expectations that were legitimate just once since Fulmer was coaching and that was 2016 team......... We've literally gone into every year with the "if luck goes our way, here are the 6 games to bowl eligibility"........ Can't recall a time that Michigan has had to do that under Harbaugh.....

Imagine being a Tennessee fan and having the audacity to say "no I don't want a coach with this record" after the 14 years of irrelevancy simply because "mUh RiVaLrY gAmEs"

 

[BondJamesBond]

In the real world, you don't get to sit around and wait five years before making a decision. You do it with the information on hand. Based on what he knew, White hired Heupel. At the time it seemed a good hire. Nothing since then has really changed that. "He still has to prove he can..." whatever is fantasy navel gazing. Right now, today, I'm happy with him.

If you feel the need to forgo happiness with the hire until 2025, maybe you should just refrain from commenting until that time.

 

[cgrish]

Clemson has one of the best defenses in the country. This is fact and can’t be disputed.

Clemson has the 114th best offense in the country. This is fact and can’t be disputed.


QB play is the single biggest factor as to why they have been historically atrocious on offense compared to the past decade.

I totally agree. And I am really confused as to why some coaches who are thought of as good coaches cant seem to make the right choice at qb. For example, mullens, kirby, meyer, had the wrong qb starting, if I am not mistaken, baker mayfield was a transfer because he wasnt playing with the team he transferred from.

 

[Rickyvol77]

The only way Harbaugh leaves Michigan is if the right NFL job opens up for him....... At the end of the day, Michigan will always be competing for double digit win season under Harbaugh more times than not.......

And yes, I would kill to have a coach that we know going into the season that winning our rivalry games are the floor for the season expectations....... Tennessee has had those expectations that were legitimate just once since Fulmer was coaching and that was 2016 team......... We've literally gone into every year with the "if luck goes our way, here are the 6 games to bowl eligibility"........ Can't recall a time that Michigan has had to do that under Harbaugh.....

Imagine being a Tennessee fan and having the audacity to say "no I don't want a coach with this record" after the 14 years of irrelevancy simply because "mUh RiVaLrY gAmEs"

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Guess we will see what happens with Jimmy. Michigan fans don’t agree with you at all. You sound like a Fulmer apologist late in his career with that “what about his record” talk. And he wins double digits because the Big ten is trash

 

[cgrish]

Heupel didnt recruit Hooker the was Pruitt

Imo if pruitt was still here, minus the infractions, jg would still be the qb

 

[VolDave53]

The only way Harbaugh leaves Michigan is if the right NFL job opens up for him....... At the end of the day, Michigan will always be competing for double digit win season under Harbaugh more times than not.......

And yes, I would kill to have a coach that we know going into the season that winning our rivalry games are the floor for the season expectations.......

Imagine being a Tennessee fan and having the audacity to say "no I don't want a coach with this record" after the 14 years of irrelevancy simply because "mUh RiVaLrY gAmEs"

View attachment 410089

Not hard to imagine at all. We did that once with Phil Fulmer. If you recall the angst of the VN when he got a bump in pay if he hit 8 games. There were reasons to let him go, legitimate reasons, but the Vol Fans were raising the roof for better wins against rivals, sure enough. I hope we have been taught a lesson regarding hubris.

 

[JMSqb11]

Guess we will see what happens with Jimmy. Michigan fans don’t agree with you at all. You sound like a Fulmer apologist late in his career with that “what about his record” talk. And he wins double digits because the Big ten is trash

Michigan fans luckily don't run the program..... They can bellyache all they want about the new contract Harbaugh got but there was no significant upgrade to replacing him...... And people are living in fantasy land if they think Michigan wouldn't want Harbaugh's record over entertaining the potential to go back to the days of Rich Rod and Hoke....... The grass ain't always greener

 

[JMSqb11]

Not hard to imagine at all. We did that once with Phil Fulmer. If you recall the angst of the VN when he got a bump in pay if he hit 8 games. There were reasons to let him go, legitimate reasons, but the Vol Fans were raising the roof for better wins against rivals, sure enough. I hope we have been taught a lesson regarding hubris.

I mean Fulmer's record was second best in our program...... And as much as I loved the Kiffin hire, there weren't significant upgrades at head coach out there when we fired him..... Using history as the barometer, Fulmer was a lock to go to Atlanta every 3 years.... Fulmer's bad seasons resulted in a 2-4 game increase the following year. I do think he made the wrong hire in Clawson and that doomed him.... His last year we were loaded with the running game and Clawson was quick and fast pass happy guy......

Also regarding his pay, I don't think anyone was very upset with giving him the extension and raise after 2007. We all hated management and Hamilton's decision making, but the bigger travesty was firing Fulmer only a year after the extension.... the announcement is what cause us to lose the Wyoming game and miss a bowl.

I also prolly would have given Fulmer 2009 since he had a great class coming in as well and the base of the defense was still returning.... From a business decision, I would have never fired him the year after an extension. That made no sense.

Lastly, its Tennessee.... I find it funny that people get worked up over how much a coach makes...... Tennessee can afford to make a football or basketball coach and now baseball coach the highest paid in the land.... I just don't get why people get so worked up over money paid to a coach that ain't coming out of their own pocket.....

Would any Tennessee fan be mad at a coach making 20 million in a season for winning a title here? No. The salary part always has me chuckling when people post "He's a top 3 paid coach, he should be putting out top 3 results" like they are some board member or top donor.

 

[Rocky Top Raby]

So basically you're reasoning against Freeze is that him beating up on scrubs is fine but it makes Huepel the guy for sure? Ok then.

 

[miket4god]

​

First off, I’m very happy with Heupel. Glad he is here. But if you had me trade him with anyone on that list, I’d take Harbaugh in a minute. Yes there are points that he has a ceiling. But what no one talks about is his floor. The guy will always have a solid team, recruiting, and stout defense. His offenses are boring but they are mean and ball control.

While his record against the two rivals sucks, it’s very rare that he has a bad season where bowl season is completely out of the question. Last year is an asterisk season for obvious reasons. Take out Covid season where they didn’t play full season, his lowest win season is 8 wins and he’s on the verge of winning 10 games for a 4th time in 7 seasons.

I would kill for those W/L records compared to where we were with Dooley/Butch/Pruitt.

Harbaugh may have a mental block with Ohio State and Michigan State. However at Tennessee the past decade, winning our two rival games of Florida and Georgia (only rivals we actually have won some) haven’t been one of the top goals going into every year. It’s always been fighting for bowl eligibility for basically 9 of the last 11 seasons. How many times have we started threads about next season’s W/L record along lines of “here are the 6 games we should be able to compete in to try for a bowl”

I love Heupel and he’s two recruiting classes away from being able to hold expectations to go toe to toe with Bama and Georgia while Florida is teetering.

Michigan year in and year out doesn’t go into season fighting for bowl eligibility. That’s a given. Harbaugh would not be a popular coach but I have zero doubt that he would win here to where we are competing with a 9-10 win regular season floor more times than not. If Heupel does that after what we had the last decade, God Bless than Man

Harbaugh is a really good coach. Part of college coaching however is recruiting and his quirkiness will prevent him from truly being elite. I think he is as good or better than Ryan Day at x's and o's but he has nowhere close to the talent that Ohio State has. And that is on him because that's part of his job also.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

The only way Harbaugh leaves Michigan is if the right NFL job opens up for him....... At the end of the day, Michigan will always be competing for double digit win season under Harbaugh more times than not.......

And yes, I would kill to have a coach that we know going into the season that winning our rivalry games are the floor for the season expectations....... Tennessee has had those expectations that were legitimate just once since Fulmer was coaching and that was 2016 team......... We've literally gone into every year with the "if luck goes our way, here are the 6 games to bowl eligibility"........ Can't recall a time that Michigan has had to do that under Harbaugh.....

Imagine being a Tennessee fan and having the audacity to say "no I don't want a coach with this record" after the 14 years of irrelevancy simply because "mUh RiVaLrY gAmEs"

View attachment 410089

Would you, though? Would you really?

I mean, if this were offered to you, would you take it: your team is guaranteed at least 8 wins every year. Some years, you'll win 10 games. On the other hand, you will never beat your #1 rival. You will never win your conference title. You will never compete for a national title. Your floor is 8; your ceiling is 11 (including bowl).

You'd go for that? I certainly wouldn't. The floor sounds nice, but the ceiling sounds utterly and completely outside what we're searching for. I'd pass on that and keep looking.

Would you really take it?

 

[JMSqb11]

Harbaugh is a really good coach. Part of college coaching however is recruiting and his quirkiness will prevent him from truly being elite. I think he is as good or better than Ryan Day at x's and o's but he has nowhere close to the talent that Ohio State has. And that is on him because that's part of his job also.

His recruiting is not a problem..... At end of the day, his biggest con is his ability to beat rivals......

 

[JMSqb11]

Would you, though? Would you really?

I mean, if this were offered to you, would you take it: your team is guaranteed at least 8 wins every year. Some years, you'll win 10 games. On the other hand, you will never beat your #1 rival. You will never win your conference title. You will never compete for a national title. Your floor is 8; your ceiling is 11 (including bowl).

You'd go for that? I certainly wouldn't. The floor sounds nice, but the ceiling sounds utterly and completely outside what we're searching for. I'd pass on that and keep looking.

Would you really take it?

So lets break this down.....

Since 2008, we've won 8 games or more 3 times in 13 years...... Of the 10 years we haven't, we won a combined 52 games. So the 8 year win guarantee is a 28 game improvement with 6 additional bowl games.... Yes I take that trade compared to what we've done....

Since 2007, we've won 10 games just 1 time being 0-fer since.... Take Harbaugh's record and he's basically 50/50 to win 10 games (10 wins this year is 4 times in 7 years I believe).... So in that time, you're asking if I'd take 7 out of 14 seasons with 10 wins? Hell yes.

Rivals - Not much needs to be said here...... Harbaugh is about as good as Tennessee is vs Rivals so there is no downside compared to what we've historically done vs UF, Bama, UGA


My key point to Harbaugh is that I would gladly take the expectation of every year that we will likely challenge 10 wins in the regular season and that our schedule would have 2-3 big games and those being our rivals, all while knowing that 8 wins is the floor and bowl eligibility is never in questions. Compared to where we have been, I take that trade every time.

DISCLAIMER: I am very happy with Heupel

 

[miket4god]

His recruiting is not a problem..... At end of the day, his biggest con is his ability to beat rivals......

His inability to beat Ohio State is due to the fact that in the last 4 years, Michigan has signed three 5 star players and Ohio State has signed sixteen 5 star players.
It is totally recruiting.
That is not an excuse for Michigan State but he has beat Michagan State a few times (and lost a couple inexplicably).
But the main (not the only but the main) reason he hasn't beaten Ohio State is because they have a lot more top end talent than Michigan.

 

[JMSqb11]

His inability to beat Ohio State is due to the fact that in the last 4 years, Michigan has signed three 5 star players and Ohio State has signed sixteen 5 star players.
It is totally recruiting.
That is not an excuse for Michigan State but he has beat Michagan State a few times (and lost a couple inexplicably).
But the main (not the only but the main) reason he hasn't beaten Ohio State is because they have a lot more top end talent than Michigan.

Once again, how many games vs OSU and MSU have been lost to poor decision making from him or players?

Also while Harbaugh's offense is boring and will win you a lot of games, its not as much of great one to compete with the Ohio State.... You can't ground and pound and run clock consistently vs OSU because their offense is well oiled machine..... That ain't talent discrepancy talking either.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

So lets break this down.....

Since 2008, we've won 8 games or more 3 times in 13 years...... Of the 10 years we haven't, we won a combined 52 games. So the 8 year win guarantee is a 28 game improvement with 6 additional bowl games.... Yes I take that trade compared to what we've done....

Since 2007, we've won 10 games just 1 time being 0-fer since.... Take Harbaugh's record and he's basically 50/50 to win 10 games (10 wins this year is 4 times in 7 years I believe).... So in that time, you're asking if I'd take 7 out of 14 seasons with 10 wins? Hell yes.

Rivals - Not much needs to be said here...... Harbaugh is about as good as Tennessee is vs Rivals so there is no downside compared to what we've historically done vs UF, Bama, UGA


My key point to Harbaugh is that I would gladly take the expectation of every year that we will likely challenge 10 wins in the regular season and that our schedule would have 2-3 big games and those being our rivals, all while knowing that 8 wins is the floor and bowl eligibility is never in questions. Compared to where we have been, I take that trade every time.

DISCLAIMER: I am very happy with Heupel



View attachment 410142

I asked about the future, brother. Your answer was focused on the past.

And set aside Heupel vs Harbaugh. I'm not asking if you'd take Harbaugh instead of Heupel.

I'm asking if you would jump at a guarantee of 8 wins a year, and sometimes as many as 10 (11 with a bowl win), but knowing that you'll never beat your top rival, you'll never win a conference title, and you'll never get a chance to compete for a national title?

That's Harbaugh. His floor is high, yes. But his ceiling is short of championships.

Would you take that? For our future?

 

[JMSqb11]

I asked about the future, brother. Your answer was focused on the past.

And set aside Heupel vs Harbaugh. I'm not asking if you'd take Harbaugh instead of Heupel.

I'm asking if you would jump at a guarantee of 8 wins a year, and sometimes as many as 10 (11 with a bowl win), but knowing that you'll never beat your top rival, you'll never win a conference title, and you'll never get a chance to compete for a national title?

That's Harbaugh. His floor is high, yes. But his ceiling is short of championships.

Would you take that? For our future?

I literally answered your question. Since we can't predict the future, you use past results to establish a trendline. The trendline for Harbaugh is 8 wins minimum EVERY year with 10 wins more likely to happen than not to happen.... As a Tennessee fan that's had to deal with the last 10-12 years, I would gladly take that trade if offered......

The fact is his floor is higher than Tennessee's ceiling based on trend lines. I would have zero issue taking Harbaugh if offered.....

With that said, this is not meant to slur or talk down Heupel. I'm glad he is here.