"Fence Around Tennessee"?????

#126
#126
JZVOL said:
Name one.
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If you can get the 2* to play like 4* guys. That is what I said.

Look back at the UT recruiting classes since 02...how may 4/5 star guys have washed out????

Ryan karl played and played well...because he was better than those high profile guys at linebacker.

You want "football players" not just studs in shorts/tees.
 
#128
#128
peaygolf89 said:
If you can get the 2* to play like 4* guys. That is what I said.

Look back at the UT recruiting classes since 02...how may 4/5 star guys have washed out????

Ryan karl played and played well...because he was better than those high profile guys at linebacker.

You want "football players" not just studs in shorts/tees.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what that has to do with anything. There are plenty of 3* wash outs too. Not every player in every ranking level makes it or over achieves.

Yes and typically those guys are ranked 4 and 5 stars; that's a fact that can't be disputed. And the teams winning the national titles are those filled with 4 and 5 stars, not over achieving Ryan Karls.
 
#129
#129
peaygolf89 said:
You are wrong. You can win a national championship with a team "full of Ryan Karl's" (2* players who play like 4-5 * guys. UT has a bunch of 4-5* guys that play like 2* ......that is the problem)
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peaygolf89 said:
If you can get the 2* to play like 4* guys. That is what I said.

Look back at the UT recruiting classes since 02...how may 4/5 star guys have washed out????

Ryan karl played and played well...because he was better than those high profile guys at linebacker.

You want "football players" not just studs in shorts/tees.
Click to expand...

IF we are being technical, you didn't say IF. :)
 
#130
#130
peaygolf89 said:
You are wrong. You can win a national championship with a team "full of Ryan Karl's" (2* players who play like 4-5 * guys. UT has a bunch of 4-5* guys that play like 2* ......that is the problem)
Click to expand...

The breakdowns:

this data from players signed to scholarships for the classes 2002-2009.

Florida has 2 NC and 2 SEC Championships. They signed 180 players during that period. 89 4 stars and 22 5 stars.

That is 62% of signees were 4/5 stars.

LSU has 2 NC and 1 SEC Championship in that timeframe. They signed 191 players. 97 4 stars and 15 5 stars signed.

That is 59% of signess were 4/5 stars.

USC on NC in 03-04. (03 debated). Won conference crowns last 5 years. signed 169 players. 89 4 stars and 30 five stars.

that is 70% 4 and 5 stars.

Tennessee won zero of either. SIgned 185 players. 72 4 stars and 17 5 stars. That is 48% which is pretty good. Unfortunately, it is less composite talent than signed by Florida and Georgia which UT has to defeat to win a league championship. Do the previous staffs credit, they did make it to Atlanta twice with less talent than UF and UGA during that same timeframe...

I disagree with your contention that a school can win an NC with a lot of 2-3 star players. The NCs won since 2003, the percent of 4 and 5 stars that those teams had consistently is over 50%.

LSU has the lowest at 58%
 
#131
#131
JZVOL said:
I don't understand what that has to do with anything. There are plenty of 3* wash outs too. Not every player in every ranking level makes it or over achieves.

Yes and typically those guys are ranked 4 and 5 stars; that's a fact that can't be disputed. And the teams winning the national titles are those filled with 4 and 5 stars, not over achieving Ryan Karls.
Click to expand...

We agree more than you think.

I'm just saying that a team full of guys that play above their * potential, can win anything!
 
#133
#133
peaygolf89 said:
If you can get the 2* to play like 4* guys. That is what I said.

Look back at the UT recruiting classes since 02...how may 4/5 star guys have washed out????

Ryan karl played and played well...because he was better than those high profile guys at linebacker.

You want "football players" not just studs in shorts/tees.
Click to expand...

here are Tennessee classes since 2002:

Untitled Document

I've calculated this. Flroida has lost 25 four and five star players in same timeframes that UT lsot 27.. I can't recall if 2002-2009 classes or smaller window.

here is Florida if interested in checking:

Untitled Document

Not updated for a month or so
 
#134
#134
peaygolf89 said:
We agree more than you think.

I'm just saying that a team full of guys that play above their * potential, can win anything!
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They certainly can (Utah) but not the national title and certainly not over a consistent time period. Perhaps with a class that pans out and are full of seniors and juniors.

But then they will take a step back like Utah will.
 
#135
#135
My big thing was about Karl playing because of a lack of talent. Karl played because he turned out to be better than the others. His ranking out of HS was too low.IMO.
 
#136
#136
It will be very interesting to see how these kids adapt to learning this new scheme. I know that depth may be a problem, but I do believe there is a very good core to work with. As someone who pays more attention to our linemen in a game, what they were attempting to do last year, they seemed confused on blocking assignments. Hopefully the new scheme will be less complicated and they can just come off the ball and smash people. I do look for us to run alot more with the backs we have, atleast I hope we do.
 
#137
#137
peaygolf89 said:
My big thing was about Karl playing because of a lack of talent. Karl played because he turned out to be better than the others. His ranking out of HS was too low.IMO.
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Daniel Brooks.. outside of him not sure what others you refer to?? Karl came in as a safety and grew into linebacker. A few other players signed as LB and grew into defensive lineman.

Outside of Brooks, whose problems were off the field, not sure who else Ryan outplayed to earn time??

I loved Ryan Karl's play by the way.
 
#138
#138
peaygolf89 said:
My big thing was about Karl playing because of a lack of talent. Karl played because he turned out to be better than the others. His ranking out of HS was too low.IMO.
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That's the truth though. Why is Nick Reviez playing right now?
 
#140
#140
I'm still trying to figure out what linebackers worth anything Karl beat out? Him playing is an indication in the talent level and depth... so is Reviez.

That doesn't mean I dislike or am not proud of those guys either.
 
#141
#141
I agree... I think he is referring to elite talent not going to UT. There's no excuse for that and I think that's all he meant. Kiffin has to be careful not to alienate those who may not be considered elite but are still improving or have gone unnoticed.

He wants to make every one feel included... and in reality... they are. Everyone has an opportunity to play at UT from Tennessee. They just have to get good enough. And those who don't, miss out on the opportunity. I >>wonder<<... if Kiffin does turn things around, that will trickle down to our Highschools and we will start producing more top notch players.
 
#142
#142
JZVOL said:
I'm still trying to figure out what linebackers worth anything Karl beat out? Him playing is an indication in the talent level and depth... so is Reviez.

That doesn't mean I dislike or am not proud of those guys either.
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He was a 2* safety that that improved enough to beat out players that were more highly recruited. My whole point is that he worked harder than the others and improved. The higher rated players did not......coaching??? maybe.

During the years Karl was at UT, they signed four 4* lbs,three 3*, and one 5*. The talent was there(based on *'s...he just out worked them...and played really well)

You can win with kids like that,but I would rather have 4/5* kids that worked that hard.
 
#143
#143
peaygolf89 said:
He was a 2* safety that that improved enough to beat out players that were more highly recruited. My whole point is that he worked harder than the others and improved. The higher rated players did not......coaching??? maybe.

During the years Karl was at UT, they signed four 4* lbs,three 3*, and one 5*. The talent was there(based on *'s...he just out worked them...and played really well)

You can win with kids like that,but I would rather have 4/5* kids that worked that hard.
Click to expand...

And what did UT win?
 
#144
#144
peaygolf89 said:
He was a 2* safety that that improved enough to beat out players that were more highly recruited. My whole point is that he worked harder than the others and improved. The higher rated players did not......coaching??? maybe.

During the years Karl was at UT, they signed four 4* lbs,three 3*, and one 5*. The talent was there(based on *'s...he just out worked them...and played really well)

You can win with kids like that,but I would rather have 4/5* kids that worked that hard.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what players you are referring to but...

'04
Ayers 4* LB moved to DE
Mayo 4* stud LB

'05
Mathis 4* LB moved to DE
Rico 4* LB- solid LB
G. Wiliiams 4* LB I don't think he competed with Karl

'06
I didn't see any 4* LB's

'07
Donald 5*- nothing so far
Walker 4* LB moved to DE

I left off three star guys and Myers-White

So as you can clearly see LB had very little depth and a couple of the LB's signed switched to D-line
 
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