"Fence Around Tennessee"?????

#76
#76
orange+white=heaven said:
This seems to have gone completely unnoticed....

Care to elaborate?...
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the way he has recruited Tennessee is similar to previous staff thus far. Recruit the best players..

Previous staff felt N Reviez was best MLB behind E Wilson. That held true through spring practice.

Previous staff felt J Crompton was best QB based on working with him in practice, meetings and film study. SO far, that appears to be feeling of this staff as well.

That is 3 things off top of my head I've observed thus far and certainly those could all change over time.
 
#77
#77
MrBamSeydu said:
PS: Let me guess you want Ryan Karl back in a UT uniform don't you? With Phil Fulmer on the sidelines....
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Let me guess, you only want the 5 and 4 stars playing don't you? You give me Ellix Wilson and Ryan Karl and I'll show you two defenses that ranked near the top nationally.
 
#78
#78
orange+white=heaven said:
This seems to have gone completely unnoticed....

Care to elaborate?...
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It is not mine to elaborate, but I believe he is saying that, like Fulmer, Kiffin may overlook the homegrown legend in order to get more talented players in california, florida, south carolina, etc. Fulmer got criticized a lot for doing this, apparently most fans either have short memories or are still willing to give Kiffin the benefit of the doubt (as they should) until he produces some 4-8 or 5-7 teams of his own.
 
#79
#79
MrBamSeydu said:
Can you name a player that played at UT and was drafted... and a player that played at UT and was NOT drafted.... and a scenario in which you would rather have the undrafted player playing for UT next year in their prime rather than the drafted player? I certainly can't name a situation like that....
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on average less then 8% of the kids that sign Divison 1 scholarships, will get drafted into the NFL..

around 3000 kids sign each year D-1 scholarships.

Only 256 players are drafted each year in the NFL. Not all of those are D-1 players.

every school is going to have a healthy mix of NFL draftess and a BUNCH more not drafted.
 
#80
#80
LWSVOL said:
the way he has recruited Tennessee is similar to previous staff thus far. Recruit the best players..

Previous staff felt N Reviez was best MLB behind E Wilson. That held true through spring practice.

Previous staff felt J Crompton was best QB based on working with him in practice, meetings and film study. SO far, that appears to be feeling of this staff as well.

That is 3 things off top of my head I've observed thus far and certainly those could all change over time.
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Makes sense. Mostly I see differences, but there must be similarities in places as well...
 
#81
#81
WPAINE said:
Let me guess, you only want the 5 and 4 stars playing don't you? You give me Ellix Wilson and Ryan Karl and I'll show you two defenses that ranked near the top nationally.
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Of course. Those are the teams winning national titles.
 
#82
#82
LWSVOL said:
the way he has recruited Tennessee is similar to previous staff thus far. Recruit the best players..

Previous staff felt N Reviez was best MLB behind E Wilson. That held true through spring practice.

Previous staff felt J Crompton was best QB based on working with him in practice, meetings and film study. SO far, that appears to be feeling of this staff as well.

That is 3 things off top of my head I've observed thus far and certainly those could all change over time.
Click to expand...

I don't think these staffs are similar at all. I think this staff has alot more energy than previous staff. I think they look at players differently as well. Even though you point to Crompton.

I disagree as well on how this staff has recruited the state. You can look at the camps. We may not offer alot more instate players but I think this staff is doing alot more to build relationships with HS coaches in this state which will help prevent us losing those players in the future.

I don't think this staff evaluates talent the same way. I think the previous staff looked alot more at what other people had to say about kids than trusting their own evaluations.

I think this staff puts more time into getting these kids quailfied. I think this staff spends more time making sure these kids stay qualified and out of trouble.

I respect the previous staff for all they acomplished in the time coach Fulmer was here. I wish coach Fulmer the best. I honestly wish we still had Cut here in some way. He was and is an awesome QB coach. But as coach Kiffin said this staff will outwork anybody. I believe him and I am certain they have outworked the previous staff to this point.
 
#83
#83
JZVOL said:
Of course. Those are the teams winning national titles.
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Actually only 1 team wins the national title each year, and there are plenty of teams loaded with 4 and 5 stars that haven't played for a national title in decades, if ever.
 
#85
#85
VOL61 said:
I don't think these staffs are similar at all. I think this staff has alot more energy than previous staff. I think they look at players differently as well. Even though you point to Crompton.

I disagree as well on how this staff has recruited the state. You can look at the camps. We may not offer alot more instate players but I think this staff is doing alot more to build relationships with HS coaches in this state which will help prevent us losing those players in the future.

I don't think this staff evaluates talent the same way. I think the previous staff looked alot more at what other people had to say about kids than trusting their own evaluations.

I think this staff puts more time into getting these kids quailfied. I think this staff spends more time making sure these kids stay qualified and out of trouble.

I respect the previous staff for all they acomplished in the time coach Fulmer was here. I wish coach Fulmer the best. I honestly wish we still had Cut here in some way. He was and is an awesome QB coach. But as coach Kiffin said this staff will outwork anybody. I believe him and I am certain they have outworked the previous staff to this point.
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Is there anything that makes you "think" these things or is it based mostly on wishful thinking and speculation?
 
#86
#86
WPAINE said:
Actually only 1 team wins the national title each year, and there are plenty of teams loaded with 4 and 5 stars that haven't played for a national title in decades, if ever.
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Oh really. I guess you should tell that to the teams that split the national title in '91, '97 and '03,
 
#87
#87
JZVOL said:
You are just talking about recruiting stuff, LWS isn't.
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Pretty sure this is directed to me, and yeah you're right which is why I made sure and begin it with a caveat that it was not my post to elaborate. I figured LWS was referring to recruiting since the thread was about recruiting, but he went in further detail...

With that said, though, I still believe that Kiffin and Fulmer are going to recruit the same way and that it is pretty amazing how much faith we have in Kiffin (rightfully so perhaps given what he was able to pull off in last year's class), but if we had this same commitment list and Fulmer was HC this year, people would be raising hell about why we have so many unranked players committed and still don't have a QB, etc....
 
#88
#88
WPAINE said:
Pretty sure this is directed to me, and yeah you're right which is why I made sure and begin it with a caveat that it was not my post to elaborate. I figured LWS was referring to recruiting since the thread was about recruiting, but he went in further detail...

With that said, though, I still believe that Kiffin and Fulmer are going to recruit the same way and that it is pretty amazing how much faith we have in Kiffin (rightfully so perhaps given what he was able to pull off in last year's class), but if we had this same commitment list and Fulmer was HC this year, people would be raising hell about why we have so many unranked players committed and still don't have a QB, etc....
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It wasn't directed to you.
 
#89
#89
JZVOL said:
Oh really. I guess you should tell that to the teams that split the national title in '91, '97 and '03,
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Welcome to the BCS era, it is nice to have you.. LSU was the national champions in 2003, not USC. Sure this is debatable but the BCS was established so that we would have 1 national champion winner...

Also, if you are going all the way back to 1991 then does that mean I can go back to the 50's and 60's as evidence that teams can win national championships without any 4 or 5 stars? :) :p
 
#90
#90
VOL61 said:
I don't think these staffs are similar at all. I think this staff has alot more energy than previous staff. I think they look at players differently as well. Even though you point to Crompton.

I disagree as well on how this staff has recruited the state. You can look at the camps. We may not offer alot more instate players but I think this staff is doing alot more to build relationships with HS coaches in this state which will help prevent us losing those players in the future.

I don't think this staff evaluates talent the same way. I think the previous staff looked alot more at what other people had to say about kids than trusting their own evaluations.

I think this staff puts more time into getting these kids quailfied. I think this staff spends more time making sure these kids stay qualified and out of trouble.

I respect the previous staff for all they acomplished in the time coach Fulmer was here. I wish coach Fulmer the best. I honestly wish we still had Cut here in some way. He was and is an awesome QB coach. But as coach Kiffin said this staff will outwork anybody. I believe him and I am certain they have outworked the previous staff to this point.
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I tend to agree with some of what you are saying maybe all. Lot is still TBD. Why only listed 3 small examples, that could all change. I didn't say the staffs were the same across the board.

I said nothing about energy of either staff. Agree with you, this staff shows more energy but I'm not certain in the least they work any more hours. I know the previous staff put in 18-20 hour days on a regular basis. I know Greg Adkins spent 58 hours straight up moving around country recruiting 3 players and got them all. I wouldn't debate with you who had better results, but the other staff did work hard. Just didn't project the same energy, won't deny that.

I'm sure they look at players differently. So far though, some of the results of both staffs are the same players in the same position, even though many fans denigrated previous staff about "certain" players.

I can't speak to your comment on how the staffs evaluate players. I've not been close enough to this staff to get a good handle on how they do that. I know they had more players come to camps then the previous staff. BUT, you can bring in 300 kids and jsut pay attention to the best 50. Just let the other 250 go through the motions. Not saying that happened, just that it could
 
#91
#91
WPAINE said:
Welcome to the BCS era, it is nice to have you.. LSU was the national champions in 2003, not USC. Sure this is debatable but the BCS was established so that we would have 1 national champion winner...

Also, if you are going all the way back to 1991 then does that mean I can go back to the 50's and 60's as evidence that teams can win national championships without any 4 or 5 stars? :) :p
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They were split national champions IN the BCS era. The BCS failed because there can, and has been a split national title. The coaches poll is the only one that agreed to only recognize the BCS game winner.

USC was just as much the national champion in '03 as LSU was.
 
#92
#92
justingroves said:
Patrick Turner was drafted in the third round of the NFL draft in April. Remind me what Tennessee receiver was drafted that high last year?

Golden Tate is a legit All-American candidate for the upcoming season.
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I agree with you on this, ESPN the mag just rated him the #1 receiver in the country. Turner was drafter by the Dolphins in the 3rd round, I'll be suprised if we have a receiver drafted higher than the 3rd round in the next 2 or 3 years.

Lets face facts though folks, alot of UT's problems with keeping this talent in state has been lack of production/player development. After Stallworth left we have had 1 decent receiver in the NFL. Kids notice this.

For the person who threw stats up about the Roger's brothers and Maples, did you see all 3 of them play in HS? I did and Maples was the better one. Better hands, better route runner, same speed.....I have heard from numerous people that he never got a fair shot at UT, whether thats true or not I don't know but I have heard this from 4 or 5 people, 1 that works for Rivals.com
 
#93
#93
JZVOL said:
They were split national champions IN the BCS era. The BCS failed because there can, and has been a split national title. The coaches poll is the only one that agreed to only recognize the BCS game winner.

USC was just as much the national champion in '03 as LSU was.
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I disagree that they were just as much of a national champion. Sure, USC fans will say they are and the media outlets will b/c it led for a catchy slogan when USC won it in 2004, but LSU was the national champions in 2003, but either way this is not the part of my original argument that needed to be focused on...

The important part of my initial argument is that there are many teams that have a whole roster of 4 or 5 star players that have never played in a national championship game in recent memory.... so to say that you want a team of 4 or 5 star players rather than players like Ellix Wilson or Ryan Karl which anchored some of the best defenses in the nation then I have to say you are wrong.
 
#94
#94
I_Hate_the_BCS said:
I agree with you on this, ESPN the mag just rated him the #1 receiver in the country. Turner was drafter by the Dolphins in the 3rd round, I'll be suprised if we have a receiver drafted higher than the 3rd round in the next 2 or 3 years.

Lets face facts though folks, alot of UT's problems with keeping this talent in state has been lack of production/player development. After Stallworth left we have had 1 decent receiver in the NFL. Kids notice this.

For the person who threw stats up about the Roger's brothers and Maples, did you see all 3 of them play in HS? I did and Maples was the better one. Better hands, better route runner, same speed.....I have heard from numerous people that he never got a fair shot at UT, whether thats true or not I don't know but I have heard this from 4 or 5 people, 1 that works for Rivals.com
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That's crap. If you can play you'll get on the field like Reviez for example.
 
#95
#95
JZVOL said:
That's crap. If you can play you'll get on the field like Reviez for example.
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Agreed 110%... These coaches got too much on the line to "overlook" somebody or for someone to never be given a chance...
 
#96
#96
WPAINE said:
I disagree that they were just as much of a national champion. Sure, USC fans will say they are and the media outlets will b/c it led for a catchy slogan when USC won it in 2004, but LSU was the national champions in 2003, but either way this is not the part of my original argument that needed to be focused on...

The important part of my initial argument is that there are many teams that have a whole roster of 4 or 5 star players that have never played in a national championship game in recent memory.... so to say that you want a team of 4 or 5 star players rather than players like Ellix Wilson or Ryan Karl which anchored some of the best defenses in the nation then I have to say you are wrong.
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You are 100% wrong. USC was just as much the national champion as LSU. The AP Poll and Coach's Poll count the exact same.

Name one team in recent memory that won a national title with a team full of 3* players.
 
#97
#97
WPAINE said:
Agreed 110%... These coaches got too much on the line to "overlook" somebody or for someone to never be given a chance...
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Exactly. Reviez was a walk on and still worked his way on the filed for valuable minutes.
 
#98
#98
JZVOL said:
You are 100% wrong. USC was just as much the national champion as LSU. The AP Poll and Coach's Poll count the exact same.

Name one team in recent memory that won a national title with a team full of 3* players.
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I can't, but I can name you plenty of teams that have not won a national championship with a roster full of 4 and 5 stars.. Therefore, the criteria for judging the skill set of a player should be how he plays, and Wilson or Karl should not be knocked just b/c they were 2 stars.

I don't think Utah has any 5 star players, or Boise State. They didn't win the national championship but have both gone undefeated, and beaten teams loaded with 4 and 5 star players. Of course these wins can be dismissed as a fluke or a one in a million, in which case the argument is lose-lose.
 
#99
#99
WPAINE said:
I can't, but I can name you plenty of teams that have not won a national championship with a roster full of 4 and 5 stars.. Therefore, the criteria for judging the skill set of a player should be how he plays, and Wilson or Karl should not be knocked just b/c they were 2 stars.

I don't think Utah has any 5 star players, or Boise State. They didn't win the national championship but have both gone undefeated, and beaten teams loaded with 4 and 5 star players. Of course these wins can be dismissed as a fluke or a one in a million, in which case the argument is lose-lose.
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I don't disagree, but there is a reason UT had to play those guys... the talent level was down from years past when they were competing for national titles.
 
#100
#100
so to insinuate that we need 4 and 5 star players b/c "those are the teams that win national championships" is just plain wrong. The teams that win national championships have a lot more going for them than 4 and 5 star players, as proven by the MANY teams that have 4 and 5 star players that are playing on New Year's Day bowls or worse - not national championships.
 
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