First Temple seal found in Jerusalem

#26
#26
OrangeEmpire said:
allenplusshortequalsosteen.jpg
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That's just freaking scary!! :eek:hmy:
 
#29
#29
TennTradition said:
The child of your creator who gave you free will and a mind to question (but not necessarily test) authority, including what the bible says? Just saying....to question the bible - to ask questions about what it means, and to inform those questions with other information available about the context of the scriptures would seem to be using the mind "the good lord gave you."

...not to start a Theology issue :p
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I do not find any where in the Bible that gives me the right to "question" God. Wonder why things happen, yes, but not question.
You are giving the talking points of unbelievers.
 
#30
#30
T-TownVol said:
I do not find any where in the Bible that gives me the right to "question" God. Wonder why things happen, yes, but not question.
You are giving the talking points of unbelievers.
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Why would a unbeliever accept that God has given him/her free will and a mind to ask questions - and therefore feel not only justified but responsible for coming to an personal understanding of the Bible? I would think that they wouldn't care. How can that be part of their talking points.

Furthermore, although I am not certain of this, where does the Bible say that it is the literal word of God in every phrase? Where does it give me the right to accept it blindly? I don't remember that right being given either. The only words that I could reasonably see being viewed as the literal word of God would be those that are direct quotes of Jesus (if you want to go ahead and equate Jesus and God as an approximation - a worldly form speaking in words, if you will). Otherwise, it seems to be accounts of the rise of time, lives of those who preceded Jesus, times immediately after Jesus, and then accounts of the end of times. I believe that all of these were written by people with either A)Direct knowledge, B)Indirect Knowledge or Family/Community Knowledge that is passed down, or C)Visions or prayer-induced understandings (an argument could easily be made that Genesis does not fit A or B, but could meet C). You or others could probably come up with a D or E....

I will agree that this is unbelieving, it is unbelieving of the proposition that everything in the bible is the direct and exact word of god and 100% truth as it happened; but, that is unbelieving of dogma, not God.
 
#31
#31
T-TownVol said:
I do believe every word in the Bible is true. Who am I to question my Creator and Savior as to the truth of his Divine Word. (not trying to start a Theology issue, just stating my belief)
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So you have no problem with Jesus being quoted a few hundred years after his death and just accepting that as 100% correct? So is 6 days exactly how long it took to create the earth?
 
#32
#32
The message of unbelievers is often that "free will" is the right to question or challenge the word of God. I was not speaking of people that do not believe in God's existance. Just those that do not believe that the Bible is "literal".
The Bible does say that it is the "inspired" word of God. In modern day terms, God was the editor of EVERY word. The term "accept blindly" is another term of the unbeliever. The Biblical term for this belief is "Faith". I do not understand every thing the Bible tells me, but I do not question it. God tells us that "our ways are not his ways".
The Bible tells us that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same being. "The Trinity" The red lettering for the quotes from Jesus was added to make the Bible easier to read.
You might say that I am not using the brain that God gave me, but that is the great thing about being a believer, I do not have to try to justify the Bible, just have Faith in it.
 
#33
#33
utvolpj said:
So you have no problem with Jesus being quoted a few hundred years after his death and just accepting that as 100% correct? So is 6 days exactly how long it took to create the earth?
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That is a "sucker" question. We do not know what Gods way of measuring time was and is today. Man came up with the clock, not God.
Yes, I believe the words of the Bible are 100% correct. (most of the quotes of Jesus were written by the men who walked the Earth with him)
Do we need to take this to a different thread. This is NOT politics.
 
#34
#34
T-TownVol said:
That is a "sucker" question. We do not know what Gods way of measuring time was and is today. Man came up with the clock, not God.
Yes, I believe the words of the Bible are 100% correct. (most of the quotes of Jesus were written by the men who walked the Earth with him)
Do we need to take this to a different thread. This is NOT politics.
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Neither is global warming science...but this is where threads like this end up...although it could be split if OE wants it to be....
 
#36
#36
T-TownVol said:
Do we need to take this to a different thread. This is NOT politics.
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The seal of the Temech family gives us a direct connection between [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]archeology[/FONT][/FONT] and the biblical sources and serves as actual evidence of a family mentioned in the Bible," she said. "One cannot help being astonished by the credibility of the biblical source as seen by the archaeological find."
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that quote tells me this is what the thread intended
 
#41
#41
T-TownVol said:
The message of unbelievers is often that "free will" is the right to question or challenge the word of God. I was not speaking of people that do not believe in God's existance. Just those that do not believe that the Bible is "literal".
The Bible does say that it is the "inspired" word of God. In modern day terms, God was the editor of EVERY word. The term "accept blindly" is another term of the unbeliever. The Biblical term for this belief is "Faith". I do not understand every thing the Bible tells me, but I do not question it. God tells us that "our ways are not his ways".
The Bible tells us that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same being. "The Trinity" The red lettering for the quotes from Jesus was added to make the Bible easier to read.
You might say that I am not using the brain that God gave me, but that is the great thing about being a believer, I do not have to try to justify the Bible, just have Faith in it.
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1) Free will takes many forms, but at its root is the ability to make decisions/choices. Technically, this probably is more accurately used to describe one's path through life and have the freedom to accept God. I don't know what best use of the term is. Regardless, A use is the ability to make decisions, which are based on thought.

2) If you don't understand everything the bible tells you, and you don't question it, then how do you know what you want to do in order to live in the way God wants you to. Questioning something doesn't mean doubting it, it means questioning what is meant by something, or what its origin is, so that one can come to understand what it means. I personally think that one must come to his/her understanding through applying that brain that God gave him/her before they can every truly do what God wants him/her to do. One must interpret words...that is how we come to understand what they mean. As the bible was translated, some things changed. We see that today with NIV bibles, where modern interpretations are sometimes used. I'm sure that the King James version of the bible changed many things from previous bibles. And, there is no way that interpretations were applied in translating from Hebrew to Greek or Latin ..... or Latin to English. This isn't to say that mistakes must have been made and therefore you can't trust or have faith in anything you read...faith along is sufficient to believe that God would not let that happen. However, I don't believe that. I have faith that if man was created in God's image, then we can through a lot of thought, meditation/prayer, etc., we can come to understand what God wants us to do...and how God wants us to live.

3) Yeah...I've got the holy trinity thing down...and I understand where the red letters come from.
 
#42
#42
T-TownVol said:
That is a "sucker" question. We do not know what Gods way of measuring time was and is today. Man came up with the clock, not God.
Yes, I believe the words of the Bible are 100% correct. (most of the quotes of Jesus were written by the men who walked the Earth with him)
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ok then, do you really believe human life started with 1 man and 1 woman? That there is no such thing as evolution?
 
#43
#43
utvolpj said:
ok then, do you really believe human life started with 1 man and 1 woman? That there is no such thing as evolution?
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Technically, the bible doesn't rule out evolution...but evolution theory as it stands today does rule out Genesis. I think I know what you mean, though.
 
#44
#44
TennTradition said:
1) Free will takes many forms, but at its root is the ability to make decisions/choices. Technically, this probably is more accurately used to describe one's path through life and have the freedom to accept God. I don't know what best use of the term is. Regardless, A use is the ability to make decisions, which are based on thought.

2) If you don't understand everything the bible tells you, and you don't question it, then how do you know what you want to do in order to live in the way God wants you to. Questioning something doesn't mean doubting it, it means questioning what is meant by something, or what its origin is, so that one can come to understand what it means. I personally think that one must come to his/her understanding through applying that brain that God gave him/her before they can every truly do what God wants him/her to do. One must interpret words...that is how we come to understand what they mean. As the bible was translated, some things changed. We see that today with NIV bibles, where modern interpretations are sometimes used. I'm sure that the King James version of the bible changed many things from previous bibles. And, there is no way that interpretations were applied in translating from Hebrew to Greek or Latin ..... or Latin to English. This isn't to say that mistakes must have been made and therefore you can't trust or have faith in anything you read...faith along is sufficient to believe that God would not let that happen. However, I don't believe that. I have faith that if man was created in God's image, then we can through a lot of thought, meditation/prayer, etc., we can come to understand what God wants us to do...and how God wants us to live.

3) Yeah...I've got the holy trinity thing down...and I understand where the red letters come from.
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On point 1 - Our definition of free will is the same, that is why God gave it to use. I differ in that if you choose to "accept" God and his word, you MUST have Faith that the Bible is His true word.
Point 2 - not understanding every thing in the Bible is far from not knowing what to do to be saved. The Bible is very clear on that. The things that I do not understand are the ways and reasons that God uses, not his commandments. I, as well as every other human on Earth, sin every day. The good news is that once you have accepted Christ, you have the means to ask for forgiveness. (needed daily in my case)
I have been luck enough to have had a Pastor and mentor that has studied the original Hebrew works. Yes, some words are botched by modern day translations, but that is where the study of the original Bible comes in. I am sorry to tell you this, but you can not think or meditate your way into Heaven. You must follow the plan of salvation set down in the Bible.
Point 3 - Sorry for the red letter thing but you would be surprised how many people do not know that.
 
#46
#46
I might have a response tomorrow but right now I'm officially speechless
 
#48
#48
utvolpj said:
I might have a response tomorrow but right now I'm officially speechless
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Just remember, evolution is a theory of man. A ruling theory I will conceed, but it is a theory that is held inspite of solid scientific evedence against it.
I believe in creation because I belive in God and I trust what he has revealed to us in the Bible.
May I suggest a book: "It Couldn't Just Happen"
By Lawrence O. Richards
 
#49
#49
I didn't know that we were talking about the path to salvation. Understanding what it takes "to be saved" (I but this in quotations only because of the various interpretations of what this means within the Christian church, not to mock it) is indeed far from understanding every word in the Bible. If one reads the bible, accepts that there is a specific path to salvation, has faith in it, and carries it out - then that is thought (one does not do this involuntarily) ... and it has to be....if we did not think that it was the right thing to do then we would not have free will in making the decision.

However, the conversation that was started in this thread was not about faith in pathways to salvation - or at least, I should say not only about this. I think that the conversation was obviously addressing all points in the bible. If one doesn't understand what something means, then they have to think about it. They may have to find out what the historical context was of something. This isn't uncommon at all. AND...there isn't anything wrong with that. And, this is different than understanding God's ways. Someone from the Church of Christ would swear up and down to you that it is a sin to have music in church. But, the Methodists would beg to disagree. To accept either position without thought would be accepting blindly, and would not constitute having faith in God and His word. To accept one position without thinking about it is actually putting more faith in other men than in God, IMO. To pray/meditate on the issue, to use the brain God gave you to research the issues - then that would seem to be having faith that if it is important, God will lead you to the answer...through your efforts, your prayer, your thought/meditation. I have a problem that everything in the bible is literal and not open to interpretation.....or else, so many people and institutions of FAITH would not practice differently. Obviously...words must be interpreted...and people are going to arrive at different answers.
 
#50
#50
I agree that there are many different interpretations of what the Bible says. The example of the Church of Christ is one of that denomination making a grey area into a black and white area. Just as the Sagesees, no idea how to spell it with out looking it up, did and were rebucked by Jesus. (Did you go back and research my past posts? I played baseball at Lipscomb but I am not C of C)
I hope that you do not think that I do not try to understand the words of the Bible, I do. I just conceed that I will never fully understand it's meaning. But make no mistake, the people and denominations that do not obey the black and white of the Bible, will not live forever in Heaven.
Many more artifact will be found as the days go by. And hopefully it will bring about many more discussions about the Bible.(as you can see, there are only 50 relpies but 149 readers of the discussion)
You are absolutely correct, choosing whether or not to follow Christ is a choice that each one of us must make of our own free will.
 
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