Flag burners in Berkeley, California

#52
#52
ksushalovesthevols said:
That's the thing. There's no bright-line rule in our constitutional law precedents. Neo-nazis burning rainbows and shouting anti-gay slogans would probably get put away because "fighting words" are not protected under free speech. The courts will not ban speech for the sake of banning speech. In O'Brien, the court said that the burning of a draft card was not protected speech because a criminal prohibition on such activity was not aimed in whole or in part at suppressing speech. It would be difficult to articular a non-speech related justification for a criminal prohibition against flag burning. Given our constitutional precedents, if this is to happen, it will take a constitutional amendment.

FWIW my view has always been that just because I may disagree with something (i.e., I wouldn't burn a flag or get an abortion), doesn't mean I am or my government is in a position to impose those views on everyone else. I say let them burn.
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I do not take up for neo nazis in any way but what is the difference between anti-gay comments and anti war comments? The simple point I was trying to make was these people only believe in tolerance when it fits their agenda! If they are so tolerant why not tolerate recruiting offices?
 
#55
#55
KB5252 said:
I do not take up for neo nazis in any way but what is the difference between anti-gay comments and anti war comments? The simple point I was trying to make was these people only believe in tolerance when it fits their agenda! If they are so tolerant why not tolerate recruiting offices?
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Because anti-gay comments are more likely to be construed as "fighting words" for free speech analysis purposes. The analysis above isn't entirely my own. It's based on landmark constitutional law cases and "fighting words" is a term of art from one such landmark case.
 
#57
#57
ksushalovesthevols said:
Because anti-gay comments are more likely to be construed as "fighting words" for free speech analysis purposes. The analysis above isn't entirely my own. It's based on landmark constitutional law cases and "fighting words" is a term of art from one such landmark case.
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It sounds kind unbalanced to me one group can use speech in one way but another cannot. ( By the way I am enjoying the discussion) I am not educated, the best I was able to achieve was a ged but I do try to keep up with what is going on in the world and try my best to look at it from different viewpoints.
 
#59
#59
enjoy this: The Daily Californian

Code Pink members embrace passers-by, sing and make valentines at the Downtown Marines recruitment center. The group celebrated Valentine's Day by holding a "kiss-in."

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if you don't think these people should be killed, you have no soul.
 
#61
#61
KB5252 said:
It sounds kind unbalanced to me one group can use speech in one way but another cannot. ( By the way I am enjoying the discussion) I am not educated, the best I was able to achieve was a ged but I do try to keep up with what is going on in the world and try my best to look at it from different viewpoints.
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Constitutional cases on free speech often hinge on very minute differences between different types of conduct. The results, as you've aptly pointed out, aren't always intuitive.

If you want to get a better feel for the legal backdrop for these questions, this wiki article is a decent place to start: Fighting words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if you're interested in additional reading, I can point you to some more extensive and detailed materials if you like.
 
#62
#62
ksushalovesthevols said:
Constitutional cases on free speech often hinge on very minute differences between different types of conduct. The results, as you've aptly pointed out, aren't always intuitive.

If you want to get a better feel for the legal backdrop for these questions, this wiki article is a decent place to start: Fighting words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if you're interested in additional reading, I can point you to some more extensive and detailed materials if you like.
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Thank you for the link, I will check it out. As for any further material I'm afraid your time would be better spent. I have a fifteen month old daughter and not much time. Thank you again though!
 
#63
#63
CFP: Berkeley Mayor stars in CodePink video bragging about working against Marines


What do you say about a city mayor who gets himself on the Drudge Report with an apology after publicly insulting America’s courageous troops? A mayor who, in the dank dark world of left wing politics is, front and center on the CodePink website, shamefully actively participating in their protest of the Marine Recruiting Centre?

“CODEPINK ALERT!” That’s what troop-loving Americans are saying.

This is where you can find Berkeley Mayor Michael Tom Bates on the CodePink website strutting his stuff: Check out the photo (left) over the proud CodePink caption “Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates joins CodePink outside the recruiting station.” Seeing is believing.

Bates is also captured in this video from the Berkeley City Council meeting actually bragging about his work with CodePink against the Marines, saying, “They don’t belong here, they shouldn’t have come here, and they should leave.”

On Drudge, Bates proffers apologies for how he treated US troops--but out of the media spotlight he wants the Marines out of Dodge.

The ripple of the mayor and his band of merry councillors was felt at Move America Forward, down at the American Legion, among the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), Soldiers Angels, in the nest of the Gathering of Eagles and Eagles Up, in the hearts of Blue Star Mothers of America, and over at Free Republic, at the Layfayette Flag Brigade, and at Operation: Care and Comfort (San Jose), and Families United.

Pink has never been their favorite color: The colors of the Stars and Stripes are!

The first hair-prickling ripple that first went out has now grown to a mighty roar and veterans, pro-troop and pro-military organizations will unite in protest against Berkeley City Council on Tuesday, February 12.

The pro-troop demonstration (and protest against the Berkeley City Council) begins at 5:00 AM and will continue through the Berkeley City Council meeting at 7:00 PM.

The demonstrations will occur outside the Berkeley City Council chambers at 2134 Martin Luther King, Jr. Way in Berkeley, CA. The “main event” when the maximum number of protestors are expected will be from 5:00 PM – 7:00 PM.

“Our organizations represent a broad cross-section of the pro-troop and pro-veteran community, and we share an equal outrage by the actions of the Berkeley City Council,” said Melanie Morgan, Chairman of Move America Forward (website: Move America Forward) which is coordinating Tuesday’s pro-troop demonstration.

“Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates said he now wants to apologize to the Marines, yet during last week’s City Council meeting he said explicitly that he was working with Code Pink and that he felt ‘the Marines do not belong here in Berkeley’.”

Our organizations are asking the Berkeley City Council to rescind all three anti-military resolutions they passed and offer a formal, written apology to the U.S. Marine Corps and the military men and women who they insulted by their recent actions.

“While there may be vibrant debate among Americans regarding the war on terror, there should be no debate about whether our American servicemen and women are welcome in all of America’s cities.

“These are America’s finest, and their service and sacrifice have protected this nation and our freedoms, including the freedom of speech which we will be exercising on Tuesday,” Morgan concluded.

On Tuesday, Move America Forward will also be delivering petitions signed by Americans from across this nation calling on the Berkeley City Council to rescind the recently passed anti-military resolutions. The signatures have been collected online through a combined effort of pro-troop and pro-veteran organizations.

For more information about the February 12th pro-troop protest against the Berkeley City Council, contact Mary Pearson at Move America Forward at (916) 441-6197 or at: Mary@MoveAmericaForward.org
 
#64
#64
droski said:
no but the majority are unemployed.
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droski said:
apparently quite a few of these burners are the same idiots protesting cutting down the trees at Cal's memorial stadium. their leader was arrested and to post bail they needed a signature of a person who had a job. they couldn't find anyone and had to send out a email to supporters to find one. and i'm not joking. this is a true story.
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I'm guessing then that they did not purchase carbon offsets to make up for their contribution to global warming.
 
#66
#66
Code Pink has a right to free speech, but I also have the right to call them a bunch of crusty old windbags who, deep down, really hate America, but are too afraid to go elsewhere in the world (like Tehran) and protest against the government's oppression.
 
#67
#67
MG1968 said:
Code Pink has a right to free speech, but I also have the right to call them a bunch of crusty old windbags who, deep down, really hate America, but are too afraid to go elsewhere in the world (like Tehran) and protest against the government's oppression.
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I couldn't agree more MG. They can also take that hag Barbara Boxer with them to Tehran. Let's see how far they would get over there.
 
#70
#70
It would be easy. We could just revoke her citizenship status and she would be stuck over there. She would also get to see how helpful Egypt can really be to immigrants.
 
#72
#72
MontereyVol said:
It would be easy. We could just revoke her citizenship status and she would be stuck over there. She would also get to see how helpful Egypt can really be to immigrants.
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U.S. citizenship acquired by birth is not revocable involuntarily, bud. And you were gonna school me in law and politics!:birgits_giggle:
 
#73
#73
MG1968 said:
Code Pink has a right to free speech, but I also have the right to call them a bunch of crusty old windbags who, deep down, really hate America, but are too afraid to go elsewhere in the world (like Tehran) and protest against the government's oppression.
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The attitute that anyone who disagrees with the status quo in this country "hates it and should get out" is incredibly ignorant. This country was built on the right to dissent. And we do an incredible disservice to the rights we are given if we do not excercise them. Part of loving this country is having a hand in trying to shape its future by participating in the political process and free speech.
 
#75
#75
ksushalovesthevols said:
The attitute that anyone who disagrees with the status quo in this country "hates it and should get out" is incredibly ignorant. This country was built on the right to dissent. And we do an incredible disservice to the rights we are given if we do not excercise them. Part of loving this country is having a hand in trying to shape its future by participating in the political process and free speech.
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Or being an incredible hypocrite? You do know what the Muslim Brotherhood stands for don't you?

You don't seem to know much.
 
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