Florida vs Oregon State

[NighthawkVol]

Truth is, it is his team. It's the only one he's got.
It is a bit like the team Butch left in 2017. Looked fine on paper. Too undersized and understrength to win the battles.
This was the first UF team I have seen since 1991 that was not physically prepared to win in the trenches.

I think his point is, Napier didn’t recruit this roster. Saying “Napier should have more talent” doesn’t make sense, since he wasn’t there to recruit them.

I think Napier was a very overrated hire and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind. But he didn’t have the roster to beat Oregon State. He did have the roster to beat Vanderbilt, however.

 

[SpookyAction]

I think his point is, Napier didn’t recruit this roster. Saying “Napier should have more talent” doesn’t make sense, since he wasn’t there to recruit them.

I think Napier was a very overrated hire and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind. But he didn’t have the roster to beat Oregon State. He did have the roster to beat Vanderbilt, however.

How can he not have the roster to beat Oregon St, but had the roster to beat Utah?

Napier didn't go get these players, but the cupboard was never bare.

He was handed a good roster, but just like our 2017 team, there is lots of talent there. They just look unable to execute in all facets if the game and weak in the trenches and unskilled at the skill positions.
This team folded their tent, same as last season.

2022 College Football Team Talent
9. Florida
51 blue chip players
6 five stars
14 Top 100 players

22. Tennessee
28 blue chip players
1 five star
2 Top 100 players

54. Oregon State
nothing listed

 

[NighthawkVol]

How can he not have the roster to beat Oregon St, but had the roster to beat Utah?

Napier didn't go get these players, but the cupboard was never bare.

He was handed a good roster, but just like our 2017 team, there is lots of talent there. They just look unable to execute in all facets if the game and weak in the trenches and unskilled at the skill positions.
This team folded their tent, same as last season.

2022 College Football Team Talent
9. Florida
51 blue chip players
6 five stars
14 Top 100 players

22. Tennessee
28 blue chip players
1 five star
2 Top 100 players

54. Oregon State
nothing listed

How can he have the roster to beat Utah and not Oregon State? Really? Well, you did notice that about 30 Gators who played against Utah didn’t play against Oregon State, right? Including the top 2 QBs, their best OL, top 2 defensive players…I could go on.

Your question is very easy to answer. In fact, it’s so easy, I’m not sure why you asked it.

 

[GoDucks349]

How can he have the roster to beat Utah and not Oregon State? Really? Well, you did notice that about 30 Gators who played against Utah didn’t play against Oregon State, right? Including the top 2 QBs, their best OL, top 2 defensive players…I could go on.

Your question is very easy to answer. In fact, it’s so easy, I’m not sure why you asked it.

Opt outs are a real problem with fielding a legit team for a bowl game. Bowl eligible teams like Wyoming, So Miss, Miami (OH) or Louisiana Monroe would all have probably put more competitive teams on the field. Maybe Florida should have "opted out"

 

[Jax_Vol]

Opt outs are a real problem with fielding a legit team for a bowl game. Bowl eligible teams like Wyoming, So Miss, Miami (OH) or Louisiana Monroe would all have probably put more competitive teams on the field. Maybe Florida should have "opted out"

Did you see the "highlight" film of Gator # 33 rushing quarterback when down 30-0.

He and bunch of others did "opt out". Just wanted to see vegas

 

[GoDucks349]

Did you see the "highlight" film of Gator # 33 rushing quarterback when down 30-0.

He and bunch of others did "opt out". Just wanted to see vegas

No I didn't, I turned it off when OSU went up 30-0.

 

[SpookyAction]

How can he have the roster to beat Utah and not Oregon State? Really? Well, you did notice that about 30 Gators who played against Utah didn’t play against Oregon State, right? Including the top 2 QBs, their best OL, top 2 defensive players…I could go on.

Your question is very easy to answer. In fact, it’s so easy, I’m not sure why you asked it.

I have a problem with the "that's not Napier's team argument."
If it's not his team, whose is it?
Don't you think it reflects on Napier that he can't keep his roster playing?
UF had 50 blue chip players to begin the season. Oregon St. -zero, no players rated above 3 stars on the roster.

So if 40 (which is a ridiculous number, but I will use it for hyperbole) blue chip players are missing from Napier's roster in the bowl game, that leaves 10 blue chippers to zero playing in favor of UF.

Carry water for Napier all you like. UF was more talented by recruiting ratings at every position on the field, even with all the opt outs.
The answer to the question of whether Oregon St is more talented than UF in any way talent is measured prior to the game is so obvious I can't see how you deny it.
That loss was a failure of epic proportions from coaching to culture to effort to mindset. Not players potentials.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I have a problem with the "that's not Napier's team argument."
If it's not his team, whose is it?
Don't you think it reflects on Napier that he can't keep his roster playing?
UF had 50 blue chip players to begin the season. Oregon St. -zero, no players rated above 3 stars on the roster.

So if 40 (which is a ridiculous number, but I will use it for hyperbole) blue chip players are missing from Napier's roster in the bowl game, that leaves 10 blue chippers to zero playing in favor of UF.

Carry water for Napier all you like. UF was more talented by recruiting ratings at every position on the field, even with all the opt outs.
The answer to the question of whether Oregon St is more talented than UF in any way talent is measured prior to the game is so obvious I can't see how you deny it.
That loss was a failure of epic proportions from coaching to culture to effort to mindset. Not players potentials.

I’m not a Napier fan. If you need to accuse me of carrying water for him because I’m actually being objective, then facts and reason are out the door. But it’s ridiculous to say “he should have had the roster to beat Oregon State.” He’s had 1 recruiting class. That’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. This isn’t even worth arguing.

Nick Saban went 6-6 his first year at Alabama. I guess “he should have had the roster” to go 12-0. After all, it was “his team.” Of course, the next year, he went 12-0 until the SECCG. I guess he learned how to coach between seasons. It certainly couldn’t have been that he had time to bring on more talent.

 

[SpookyAction]

I’m not a Napier fan. If you need to accuse me of carrying water for him because I’m actually being objective, then facts and reason are out the door. But it’s ridiculous to say “he should have had the roster to beat Oregon State.” He’s had 1 recruiting class. That’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. This isn’t even worth arguing.

Nick Saban went 6-6 his first year at Alabama. I guess “he should have had the roster” to go 12-0. After all, it was “his team.” Of course, the next year, he went 12-0 until the SECCG. I guess he learned how to coach between seasons. It certainly couldn’t have been that he had time to bring on more talent.

Mike Shula did not leave the cupboard bare for Saban.
He left enough talent to build a national contender. The difference was Saban could coach them up to elite levels.
And you are stating something I never mentioned or alluded to.
Napier simply has talent on the roster, and much more than Oregon St. The reason UF was blown out by Oregon St had nothing to do with any talent deficit or the fact Mullens recruited most of them.
I never implied Napier recruited those players. But they are his players now. To say a coach only has to be responsible for players he recruits is tone deaf at best.

UT's roster isn't many of Heupel's players, but I don't see you or anyone else creating distance between him and his players when giving credit or blame for their performance.

Did you justify that those weren't Heupel's players after South Carolina to deflect blame? Or say he doesn't deserve credit for this year's success because they aren't Heupel's players? You would have been harrumphed off the forum.

What's the difference between blaming a coach's failure on the fact those aren't players he recruited and not giving Heupel credit for success because those aren't players he recruited?

 

[ZippyMorocco]

https://talkndawgs.com/attachments/1671391289832-png.8548/

 

[Jax_Vol]

No I didn't, I turned it off when OSU went up 30-0.

This may be it? Turn your volume /speaker down first. Could be a foul language word. The left defensive end (# 33) giving his all for gators.

Non-stop motor..

 

[NighthawkVol]

Mike Shula did not leave the cupboard bare for Saban.
He left enough talent to build a national contender. The difference was Saban could coach them up to elite levels.
And you are stating something I never mentioned or alluded to.
Napier simply has talent on the roster, and much more than Oregon St. The reason UF was blown out by Oregon St had nothing to do with any talent deficit or the fact Mullens recruited most of them.
I never implied Napier recruited those players. But they are his players now. To say a coach only has to be responsible for players he recruits is tone deaf at best.

UT's roster isn't many of Heupel's players, but I don't see you or anyone else creating distance between him and his players when giving credit or blame for their performance.

Did you justify that those weren't Heupel's players after South Carolina to deflect blame? Or say he doesn't deserve credit for this year's success because they aren't Heupel's players? You would have been harrumphed off the forum.

What's the difference between blaming a coach's failure on the fact those aren't players he recruited and not giving Heupel credit for success because those aren't players he recruited?

This conversation is bizarre. You’re conflating arguments, for one. Yes, it’s his team. But he didn’t recruit most of them and he hasn’t had a chance to build the roster. Both of those things can be (and are) true. As a coach, he has to do the best he can with what he has. But equating taking ownership with the team with having had the opportunity to build the roster is incoherent. He doesn’t have the roster because a) he’s only recruited one class and b) about half of them he inherited are gone. Florida was playing with a 3rd string QB who hadn’t taken a snap all year because Richardson opted out and Kitna was arrested. There are about 20 guys in the portal right now and 2 more opted out for the NFL. Transfers happen often with coaching changes. It can also be part of a culture change, which is good long-term.

No, he didn’t have the roster to hang with Oregon State and he really hasn’t had the opportunity to build one. Just saying it’s “his team” is completely lacking in nuance.

Napier may succeed at Florida or he may fail. But losing to a better Oregon State team with a shell of the roster they started the season with isn’t an indicator either way.

 

[NighthawkVol]

This conversation is bizarre. You’re conflating arguments, for one. Yes, it’s his team. But he didn’t recruit most of them and he hasn’t had a chance to build the roster. Both of those things can be (and are) true. As a coach, he has to do the best he can with what he has. But equating taking ownership with the team with having had the opportunity to build the roster is incoherent. He doesn’t have the roster because a) he’s only recruited one class and b) about half of them he inherited are gone. Florida was playing with a 3rd string QB who hadn’t taken a snap all year because Richardson opted out and Kitna was arrested. There are about 20 guys in the portal right now and 2 more opted out for the NFL. Transfers happen often with coaching changes. It can also be part of a culture change, which is good long-term.

No, he didn’t have the roster to hang with Oregon State and he really hasn’t had the opportunity to build one. Just saying it’s “his team” is completely lacking in nuance.

Napier may succeed at Florida or he may fail. But losing to a better Oregon State team with a shell of the roster they started the season with isn’t an indicator either way.

Also, you bring up Heupel…he’s in his 2nd year. Napier is in his first. Heupel only went 7-6 in his first year. Know why? Because it was his first year building his roster and his culture.

You say Shula left Saban talent elite talent to win a championship. And yet, Saban, greatest coach ever, only went 6-6 his first year. Lost to Louisiana Lafayette, in fact. Know why? He hadn’t had a chance to build his roster and instill his culture. You made my point for me by pointing out the talent Shula left.

The fact you could look at that game and what’s left of that Florida roster and think Florida brought more talent to Las Vegas than Oregon State is just…wow. But regardless, first year coaches are still building. Oregon State isn’t building. And they didn’t lose half their roster for the bowl.

 

[LouderVol]

I agree, but I think UF's 2nd string should have much higher rated talent than OregonSt's starting lineup. Coach Napier and staff dropped the ball. I don't know if the team is lost. I have no idea. But Coach Napier should never be boatraced by that team. I suspect it is all *mental at this point. A 9-3 Pac 12 team definitely has lower rated talent on the field than most 6-6 SEC teams, and definitely if it is UF.

It is frustrating, I remember all the underperforming UT teams of the 21st century.


Butch Jones was 3-0 in bowl games. 2015 and 16 were really listless lineups of superior talent during the regular seasons and those staffs somehow got the teams up for the bowl games.

*see UT at USCe

The ratings dont matter as much as people want them too.

Only 2 of the 4 playoff teams are in the top 10. And one of them, OSU, had to back in to make it. TCU is number 32.

We are the 19th most talented team and were number 1 for a week, and we beat the most talented team.

Oklahoma is still in the top 10 for talent and barely made a bowl game.

TAMU is the fourth most talented, and didnt even make a bowl.

Miami is 12th and didnt make a bowl.

Cincinnati made it to the playoffs last year and had the 45th most talented team.

You cant tell specifics results based off of talent rankings.

Oregon States team had been playing and practicing together all year. They're not on a first year coach. And they didnt have their starting QB opt out or his back up arrested.

Football isnt a sport where you can just roll a ball out there and play effectively. Just like the Pro Bowl teams could never compete with a regular season team because they dont have the TEAM aspectdown, even if they have a clear talent advantage.

I dont understand why people are so quick to dismiss the "any given Saturday" view.

 

[LouderVol]

How can he not have the roster to beat Oregon St, but had the roster to beat Utah?

Napier didn't go get these players, but the cupboard was never bare.

He was handed a good roster, but just like our 2017 team, there is lots of talent there. They just look unable to execute in all facets if the game and weak in the trenches and unskilled at the skill positions.
This team folded their tent, same as last season.

2022 College Football Team Talent
9. Florida
51 blue chip players
6 five stars
14 Top 100 players

22. Tennessee
28 blue chip players
1 five star
2 Top 100 players

54. Oregon State
nothing listed

Napier had his starting QB against Utah. And probably whatever other starters opted out or are transferring out.

I also believe he was playing Utah in the swamp.

 

[SpookyAction]

Also, you bring up Heupel…he’s in his 2nd year. Napier is in his first. Heupel only went 7-6 in his first year. Know why? Because it was his first year building his roster and his culture.

You say Shula left Saban talent elite talent to win a championship. And yet, Saban, greatest coach ever, only went 6-6 his first year. Lost to Louisiana Lafayette, in fact. Know why? He hadn’t had a chance to build his roster and instill his culture. You made my point for me by pointing out the talent Shula left.

The fact you could look at that game and what’s left of that Florida roster and think Florida brought more talent to Las Vegas than Oregon State is just…wow. But regardless, first year coaches are still building. Oregon State isn’t building. And they didn’t lose half their roster for the bowl.

They should have been more talented. The pool of talent on that team has melted away. Those players didn't want to be there.
The product on the field spoke for itself.
You are giving Napier a pass.
I'm not.

Since you are saying UF isn't more talented than Oregon St atm, do you put any faith in the recruiting services? Your argument is saying those rankings have no meaning for UF. Every 4 star playing for Napier is more than Oregon St has on its roster. They have zero.

You aren't arguing against me about roster talent, you are arguing against the ranks the players for UF had when signed. Rivals and Co. aren't infallible, but they aren't that off.
That implosion had nothing to do with talent. It was a collapse. UF was beaten before the kickoff.

A big-time coach shows up. Napier didn't.
Head Coach Jonathan Smith is for real.

Heupel did most of the heavy lifting for this season's success during the growing pains last season. Napier's rebuild looks like it is getting another year tacked onto it. Those boys at the end of that game weren't playing for pride, for themselves, each other, or their coach.

 

[Jax_Vol]

They should have been more talented.
The product on the field spoke for itself.
You are giving Napier a pass.
I'm not.
A big-time coach shows up. Napier didn't.

I bet on their next hire, Florida goes for a big-time coach.

No more Sun Belt guys.

They will move up with a proven guy like LSU or USC did this year.

 

[LouderVol]

They should have been more talented. The pool of talent on that team has melted away. Those players didn't want to be there.
The product on the field spoke for itself.
You are giving Napier a pass.
I'm not.

Since you are saying UF isn't more talented than Oregon St atm, do you put any faith in the recruiting services? Your argument is saying those rankings have no meaning for UF. Every 4 star playing for Napier is more than Oregon St has on its roster. They have zero.

You aren't arguing against me about roster talent, you are arguing against the ranks the players for UF had when signed. Rivals and Co. aren't infallible, but they aren't that off.
That implosion had nothing to do with talent. It was a collapse. UF was beaten before the kickoff.

A big-time coach shows up. Napier didn't.
Head Coach Jonathan Smith is for real.

Heupel did most of the heavy lifting for this season's success during the growing pains last season. Napier's rebuild looks like it is getting another year tacked onto it. Those boys at the end of that game weren't playing for pride, for themselves, each other, or their coach.

Stars only matter to a point. Do you expect a magical team of nothing but 5 star freshman to do very well against a veteran squad of mostly 3 stars?

If you have any sense the answer is NO.

Why? Because pure talent, as decided by a bunch of nobodies who have never coached a day in their lives, isnt enough.

If you pay attention to recruiting you would know these so called talent evaluators admit they dont actually watch all the tape before ranking a kid, and for the most part they are reacting to offers and not differences in skill, talent, size, or whatever. Heck most sites come out and say they are pay-to-rank schemes where kids have to go to their camps to get ranked highly.

There is no logic in just assuming a highly ranked roster is the end all be all when you are playing a good team ready to play.

 

[Fightmaker]

I think his point is, Napier didn’t recruit this roster. Saying “Napier should have more talent” doesn’t make sense, since he wasn’t there to recruit them.

I think Napier was a very overrated hire and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind. But he didn’t have the roster to beat Oregon State. He did have the roster to beat Vanderbilt, however.

I just know that the team got way worse from Utah to Oregon St, and it was obvious that Napier was coaching on a learning curve all year. He clearly lost this team. I don’t want to hear the talent gap excuse anytime Florida loses to Vanderbilt.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I just know that the team got way worse from Utah to Oregon St, and it was obvious that Napier was coaching on a learning curve all year. He clearly lost this team. I don’t want to hear the talent gap excuse anytime Florida loses to Vanderbilt.

That I’ll agree with. Because that’s a totally different statement than saying his roster in the bowl game was better than Oregon State’s. It wasn’t close.

Ya know, folks have made comparisons of Napier to Butch, but he reminds me more of Dooley. Although Dooley was a lazy recruiter and recruiting is Napier’s M.O., so I guess that’s where the Butch comp holds up.

 

[GoDucks349]

The ratings dont matter as much as people want them too.

Only 2 of the 4 playoff teams are in the top 10. And one of them, OSU, had to back in to make it. TCU is number 32.

We are the 19th most talented team and were number 1 for a week, and we beat the most talented team.

Oklahoma is still in the top 10 for talent and barely made a bowl game.

TAMU is the fourth most talented, and didnt even make a bowl.

Miami is 12th and didnt make a bowl.

Cincinnati made it to the playoffs last year and had the 45th most talented team.

You cant tell specifics results based off of talent rankings.

Oregon States team had been playing and practicing together all year. They're not on a first year coach. And they didnt have their starting QB opt out or his back up arrested.

Football isnt a sport where you can just roll a ball out there and play effectively. Just like the Pro Bowl teams could never compete with a regular season team because they dont have the TEAM aspectdown, even if they have a clear talent advantage.

I dont understand why people are so quick to dismiss the "any given Saturday" view.

Chance Nolan was the Beavs starting QB through the first 5 games. I believe he got hurt and lost the starting job during his recovery. Nolan is now in the transfer portal.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Stars only matter to a point. Do you expect a magical team of nothing but 5 star freshman to do very well against a veteran squad of mostly 3 stars?

If you have any sense the answer is NO.

Why? Because pure talent, as decided by a bunch of nobodies who have never coached a day in their lives, isnt enough.

If you pay attention to recruiting you would know these so called talent evaluators admit they dont actually watch all the tape before ranking a kid, and for the most part they are reacting to offers and not differences in skill, talent, size, or whatever. Heck most sites come out and say they are pay-to-rank schemes where kids have to go to their camps to get ranked highly.

There is no logic in just assuming a highly ranked roster is the end all be all when you are playing a good team ready to play.

You should have responded with 0-12.