Flying in the US

#76
#76
BigPapaVol said:
What in the world does conservatism have to do with respecting your religious beliefs? That's the mantra of the morons ruining conservatism. Jesus isn't a part of our legal realm nor is he making day to day decisions about airliner security.

You keep on obeying and doing your pacifist thing, just thank goodness that we have COL Jessup on that wall.
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Thank you
 
#78
#78
BigPapaVol said:
So why the debate to carry? You gonna turn the other cheek so bad guy can bruise it too while asking about serial number on your weapon?
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Sorry, I know its confusing. They are two different topics. I acknowledge that not everyone believes the way I do. I choose to address that reality with my comments about carrying, not stating my own preferences and beliefs about the use of violence. I believe that you have the right to do things that I may consider immoral. I will defend your rights even if you exercise them in a manner I find wrong. I like guns. I own several. I shoot for fun and I hunt. I think I have the right to carry them just about anywhere unless the property owner forbids it. I think the government has no right to tell me otherwise. Most people who own firearms are not pacifists. Bearing that reality in mind, if you combine my belief if your right to carry with your belief in your right for self defense, then you create a situation where an armed you can avert a catastrophe. I never wanted to bring pacifism into this discussion, I don't recall now who did.
 
#79
#79
RespectTradition said:
Sorry, I know its confusing. They are two different topics. I acknowledge that not everyone believes the way I do. I choose to address that reality with my comments about carrying, not stating my own preferences and beliefs about the use of violence. I believe that you have the right to do things that I may consider immoral. I will defend your rights even if you exercise them in a manner I find wrong. I like guns. I own several. I shoot for fun and I hunt. I think I have the right to carry them just about anywhere unless the property owner forbids it. I think the government has no right to tell me otherwise. Most people who own firearms are not pacifists. Bearing that reality in mind, if you combine my belief if your right to carry with your belief in your right for self defense, then you create a situation where an armed you can avert a catastrophe. I never wanted to bring pacifism into this discussion, I don't recall now who did.
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I agree with the right to carry a weapon. Just not on a plane dude. If nobody is armed with anything other than an ipod. Where's the threat needed to carry a weapon? It doesn't exist.
 
#80
#80
BigPapaVol said:
I might share your views, but mingling it in this debate is just lame. Conservatives talking up religion in the conversation regarding the laws of our land are morons. We specifically formed this place to avoid that kind of silliness.
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If you truly believe your religion, doesn't it inform every choice you make and every stance you take? How can you remove religion from a philosophical/political debate? Even the absence of religion is a religious position. I am not advocating making law based on my religion mind you. I am just saying I don't think you can divorce religion from politics.
 
#81
#81
7thgroupvolfan said:
I agree with the right to carry a weapon. Just not on a plane dude. If nobody is armed with anything other than an ipod. Where's the threat needed to carry a weapon? It doesn't exist.
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For me its a freedom thing. I believe that guns on a plane can lead to bad things. It could also on occasion lead to good things, otherwise there would be no point in armed airmarshalls. I just think it is something that the government should not be dictating. If an airline wants to disallow weapons, then those who want to fly on planes without guns will opt for that airline. I another airline sees a market for carrying people who want to pack, then that airline should be able to offer it and people who don't want to ride with them don't have to.

All of this does bring us back to the start of the thread though. What is the point of the security theater played out by the TSA if after a plane has already landed it becomes necessary to take someone off of it and search them? Think about that for a moment. This lady had passed security, gotten on board, flown, landed and then is molested because of something that did not happen? That is absurd no matter what side of the issue you take.
 
#82
#82
RespectTradition said:
If you truly believe your religion, doesn't it inform every choice you make and every stance you take? How can you remove religion from a philosophical/political debate? Even the absence of religion is a religious position. I am not advocating making law based on my religion mind you. I am just saying I don't think you can divorce religion from politics.
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Hmm. I believe Al Qaeda lives by that mantra.

Coincidentally, Al Qaeda members think the TSA is a bad idea, also.
 
#83
#83
HSVol said:
Hmm. I believe Al Qaeda lives by that mantra.

Coincidentally, Al Qaeda members think the TSA is a bad idea, also.
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I think Al Qaeda also believes in gravity and that the earth is round. Is that somehow relevant too? Just because it is something the bad guys believe doesn't make it wrong. Being wrong is what makes things wrong, not who agrees with it. Have you ever read any Rand?
 
#85
#85
HSVol said:
:lol:

There have been many attempts, but let's not get in the way of facts. But how about Richard Reid and the underwear bomber? They failed, thankfully. Maybe the fact we locked the door is why it hasn't successfully happened again?

Hey, no need to argue with you. Apparently we live in utopia with no threats. :crazy:
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Was rereading the thread and just paid attention to this one. The underwear bomber is a perfect example of security theater. Our security did NOTHING to protect us from this guy. His incompetence saved the day. That is a point in favor of my argument that the TSA takes freedom for the appearance of safety and accomplishes nothing.
 
#86
#86
RespectTradition said:
Was rereading the thread and just paid attention to this one. The underwear bomber is a perfect example of security theater. Our security did NOTHING to protect us from this guy. His incompetence saved the day. That is a point in favor of my argument that the TSA takes freedom for the appearance of safety and accomplishes nothing.
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good example of govt equalling failure
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#87
#87
HSVol said:
Hmm. I believe Al Qaeda lives by that mantra.

Coincidentally, Al Qaeda members think the TSA is a bad idea, also.
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Oh, things like TSA are considered good by AQ. OBL himself said that his strategy was to get us scared, get us to change and have us spend money we didn't have on 'security' in order to bankrupt us and hurt our economy.
 
#88
#88
Freedom, to me, doesn't mean doing whatever the hell I want with little or no government regulation. Freedom, to me, is being free to express my opinions, being free to vote for and advocate against those who do not represent my views, etc. The largest part of the freedom that America offers are those constitutional rights. I have the ability to vote against someone if they represent ideas that I feel impinge on the freedoms I feel I am entitled to as an American. I feel that there are ways that the Patriot Act could be used to infringe on my freedom/rights - but I don't have issues with the new-found power of the TSA. The decision was made that in order to maintain a air travel system that people could trust (and this would be necessary for clear economic reasons), these measures were necessary. I think they were probably right...though in some ways it may be a false sense of security (hope not, of course).
 
#89
#89
TennTradition said:
Freedom, to me, doesn't mean doing whatever the hell I want with little or no government regulation. Freedom, to me, is being free to express my opinions, being free to vote for and advocate against those who do not represent my views, etc. The largest part of the freedom that America offers are those constitutional rights. I have the ability to vote against someone if they represent ideas that I feel impinge on the freedoms I feel I am entitled to as an American. I feel that there are ways that the Patriot Act could be used to infringe on my freedom/rights - but I don't have issues with the new-found power of the TSA. The decision was made that in order to maintain a air travel system that people could trust (and this would be necessary for clear economic reasons), these measures were necessary. I think they were probably right...though in some ways it may be a false sense of security (hope not, of course).
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To me, this is freedom Freedom - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Freedom

1 : the quality or state of being free
a: the absence of necessity, coercion or constraint in choice or action
h: unrestricted use

If you can't do what you want, then you have a constraint in choice or action. I understand that absolute freedom is a practical impossibility, but that does not mean we shouldn't strive to get as close as possible.
 
#92
#92
Speaking of flying in the US... Who gave the ok for an 80 year old to get into a P-51 mustang and pull 8gs?
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