For all of the Fire Tim Banks Folks

[JO VOL]

Before we scream for CTB's to be fired, we must remember the attrition and loss of talent we had to overcome. CJH has recruited well, but it’s the attrition that has hurt. We’ve lost Key Lawrence , M. French, Mohan, Willis, McNeil, Terry, and Cam Miller to name a few. I know there’s more, but we could have used some of those guys, especially Key. Injuries have also been a problem. This has forced Will Brooks into the line up. Who was our leading tackler yesterday (4) solo 8 total. That gave him 18 on the season. Who would think Brooks would be a contributor? Not picking on him, but using him as an example of the talent level we have and why we are no better talent wise on defense than we have been over the last 20 years. Banks could have the best schemes in all of football, but he also needs the 5* and high 4* players to get it done. Burrell and Brooks type talents won’t win us championships. I’ve got to give Banks and Heupel props for getting the most out of what we have.

This argument is old and frankly not true. The team has talent. It’s not being maximized. Aka poor coaching.

 

[VolRage]

Personally, I’m so sick of the talent and young argument. Has Mizzou recruited better than the Vols over the last 3 years. The answer is NO yet they kicked our butts. Vandy scored 24 on our D. What is their offense recruiting ranking over the last 3 years vs the Vols defense recruiting ranking. I could go on and on. At some point the talent and young argument becomes nothing more than excuses for piss poor performance and coaching.

 

[Deebowbear]

You are correct. Heupel has NEVER fired a coach. Read that earlier today.

Doubt he starts now. Wonderful.

Then Heupel better start coaching those positions then

 

[FollowTheLeader]

This argument is old and frankly not true. The team has talent. It’s not being maximized. Aka poor coaching.

 

[VolRage]

Context matters. Not a single point that Vandy scored mattered. The game was over in the first quarter.

Didn’t matter huh. Tennessee didn’t cover the point spread and DROPPED out of the top 25 AFTER a win. Yeah, those points mattered. They mattered to the AP, the team, and the current recruits.
Tennessee’s defense this year was disappointing. Automatic third down pick up’s matter. 3rd and 10. No big deal. The Vols secondary couldn’t cover an acorn with a dump truck load of dirt.

 

[MiramarVol]

I will admit I am not a Banks fan at all...He has a terrible time adjusting and Martinez should be flipping burgers ar McDonalds or something...He's terrible...We have had the worst secondary the past few years than I have seen at UT...3 years is plenty of time to get the right recruits in place to fix it and they haven't...Losing to florida was just a nightmare as bad as they were this season..I know CJH is probably not gonna fire anybody but he had better be careful as it could be a downfall for him if he is too loyal.

Our DB's were terrible when E Berry was here. Outside of him, we had Art "Burnt Toast". Our secondary has been hot garbage the last 20 years. Someone please correct me and remind me when we had a great secondary. I can't remember.

 

[Volnuck]

Before we scream for CTB's to be fired, we must remember the attrition and loss of talent we had to overcome. CJH has recruited well, but it’s the attrition that has hurt. We’ve lost Key Lawrence , M. French, Mohan, Willis, McNeil, Terry, and Cam Miller to name a few. I know there’s more, but we could have used some of those guys, especially Key. Injuries have also been a problem. This has forced Will Brooks into the line up. Who was our leading tackler yesterday (4) solo 8 total. That gave him 18 on the season. Who would think Brooks would be a contributor? Not picking on him, but using him as an example of the talent level we have and why we are no better talent wise on defense than we have been over the last 20 years. Banks could have the best schemes in all of football, but he also needs the 5* and high 4* players to get it done. Burrell and Brooks type talents won’t win us championships. I’ve got to give Banks and Heupel props for getting the most out of what we have.

I am not going to give an opinion on Banks being fired, but the lack of talent issue is not real. They have recruited 3 classes, if the defensive talent is not at least “some” better, that is on them. We have the least talented DB’s in division I football and they are coached pathetically from what I see on Saturdays. They do not tackle well and they can’t play bump and run. Any 3 star player can be placed in a bad zone defense. Martinez does not seem like a good DB coach.

 

[Volwonder1]

I’m hopeful that the vols aren’t the most penalized team in the SEC next year. The officiating has been horrendous and seems to be the worst in crucial moments of games. Hopefully, BIG HOPEFULLY, next year we see a 100% turnaround on that front.

 

[bpalmer28]

Banks sucks. All the Banks people will find out. If he is DC next year, 8 wins at most

That’s a matter of opinion. But I like how you pretend like 8 wins would be a huge disappointment. You’re already setting the stage for your 2024 complaints. Well done. You’ll spend the next year plotting ways to convince people that we could have won more games with a better DC. Only a National Championship can interrupt your master plan! Brilliant.

 

[bpalmer28]

This argument is old and frankly not true. The team has talent. It’s not being maximized. Aka poor coaching.

It is old but it is true. How many of our DBs are projected to be drafted? And before you say it’s because Martinez can’t put guys in the NFL, you may want to think about how his coaching helped increase Alontae Taylor’s stock and transformed Theo Jackson from an undrafted free agent to an NFL draft pick. We do not have NFL talent on the current roster unless they are freshmen. Hadden is the only guy who might get drafted

 

[bpalmer28]

I am not going to give an opinion on Banks being fired, but the lack of talent issue is not real. They have recruited 3 classes, if the defensive talent is not at least “some” better, that is on them. We have the least talented DB’s in division I football and they are coached pathetically from what I see on Saturdays. They do not tackle well and they can’t play bump and run. Any 3 star player can be placed in a bad zone defense. Martinez does not seem like a good DB coach.

See post above. It absolutely is real. I’m having a hard time understanding why multiple people here don’t see it…

 

[bpalmer28]

Didn’t matter huh. Tennessee didn’t cover the point spread and DROPPED out of the top 25 AFTER a win. Yeah, those points mattered. They mattered to the AP, the team, and the current recruits.
Tennessee’s defense this year was disappointing. Automatic third down pick up’s matter. 3rd and 10. No big deal. The Vols secondary couldn’t cover an acorn with a dump truck load of dirt.

You do know 14 points were scored in mop up duty right? One TD was a 10 yard drive after a dropped punt.

Banks has improved our defense 3 times. Each t year that he has been here we have statistically improved. That is good. If we aren’t improving fast enough for you… well I guess it’s your choice to be mad about it.

 

[Carp]

I actually think he will be up for HC gigs this winter. Not high profile jobs, but maybe places like Indiana or Syracuse. He recruits extremely well and seems to be highly respected. And he did in fact turn out defense around from being atrocious in 2022 to being about average in 2023.

 

[Namorto1]

Of the 10 defensive players we recruited this year, only four are considered 4 stars. That just isn’t good enough if Banks requires more talent. Consider this:

On defense this year:
O. Thomas, Normon-Lott or Mason, Baron, Pearce were all 4 stars out of high school.
LB - Beasley, Herring, Pili - all 3 stars
Star - McDonald - 3 star
DBs - McCullough was 4 star, other starters were 3 star.

Going into next year based on recruiting stars:
DT may be average
DE/Leo should be good
LB/Star may be average
CB may be average
S may be average

 

[kiddiedoc]

Let's start with the semicolon, then we'll see where we go.

 

[VolRage]

You do know 14 points were scored in mop up duty right? One TD was a 10 yard drive after a dropped punt.

Banks has improved our defense 3 times. Each t year that he has been here we have statistically improved. That is good. If we aren’t improving fast enough for you… well I guess it’s your choice to be mad about it.

I’m not mad about anything but rather pointing out the obvious and inaccuracy of the comment made. The comment was made that Vandy’s 24 points didn’t matter. Again, the Vols won by a large margin yet didn’t cover the spread. As a result, the Vols fell out of the top 25. The pollsters don’t care whether the 1st team, 2nd team, or 3rd team players were in the game when Vandy scored or that Dee Williams fumbled a punt at the 10 yard line allowing Vandy a short field to score. Vandy scored 24 on the Vols. Not the 1st team Vols, not the 2nd team Vols, not the 3rd team Vols, but scored 24 on the Vols, period. And when the Vols were barely in the top 25 before the game, every point allowed by the Vols mattered so that they may stay in the top 25. If points didn’t matter we wouldn’t bother keeping score.

 

[Raleigh-Vol]

I’m not mad about anything but rather pointing out the obvious and inaccuracy of the comment made. The comment was made that Vandy’s 24 points didn’t matter. Again, the Vols won by a large margin yet didn’t cover the spread. As a result, the Vols fell out of the top 25. The pollsters don’t care whether the 1st team, 2nd team, or 3rd team players were in the game when Vandy scored or that Dee Williams fumbled a punt at the 10 yard line allowing Vandy a short field to score. Vandy scored 24 on the Vols. Not the 1st team Vols, not the 2nd team Vols, not the 3rd team Vols, but scored 24 on the Vols, period. And when the Vols were barely in the top 25 before the game, every point allowed by the Vols mattered so that they may stay in the top 25. If points didn’t matter we wouldn’t bother keeping score.

We fell out because other teams won who have better records....NC State and SMU. It would not have matter if we shut Vandy out we still would have fallen out. We were the only 4 loss team ranked last week and should have fallen out then. Granted we would beat the teams ranked at the bottom of the poll but there are always unranked teams that are better and would be some of the teams ranked like JMU.

 

[JohnWardForever]

Heupel isn’t firing anyone. He should, but he won’t.

I want to know who is the young guy that sits next to Banks in the booth? His Son Maybe? If so, that is very telling. I think it should be his closest assistant. Team first, Family second .

 

[VolunteerCeltic]

Doesnt matter if you fire Banks, defense will take another step back next season due to loss of seniors.

 

[perico]

I lean towards keeping Banks, but that is mostly becuase I don't see us being able to find a better DC. We do need some change, primarily at DB Coach.

To me, I still think we have some work to do on the recruiting trail. We don't have the depth or development right now needed on our roster. Our recruiting classes for Pruitt's last year and Huepel's first year were not up to par.

We have done better in recruiting the last two years. Defensively speaking we have been able to add guys like Daevin Hobbs, Caleb Herring, Jordan Ross. These three guys were all rated 96 or higher on the composite. But, its worth noting all three guys are DL. We are building that department well and on a good trajectory. Elsewhere we haven't done as well, particularly DB. Some good instate recruits like Boo Carter and Kaleb Beasley, both rated 93, have committed. But outside of that we are struggling to attract the top LB and DB recruits. That brings me back to my point in needing to make a change at DB coach. Get some new blood in there and see if we can spark some excitement to recruits.

We are loaded for talent at LB. Carter, Telander, Perry, and Herring were all Freshman and a sophomore. We only have 2 LBs on the field so there is only so much PT available.

 

[JRich]

If Aranda leaves Baylor it will likely be for Southern Cal, they are in desperate need of a good DC. Everyone throws out Mason's name, but is he even looking to get back into coaching? Making good money as a broadcaster and doesn't have the stress or pressure and the heavy schedule demands. He seems happy where he is.

This team was destroyed by injuries towards the end of the season. Don't expect a coaching change to be a miracle cure when what little talent you had was on the sideline. UT needs to recruit better players. From all accounts from other coaches and analysts, Banks is a quality DC. If Aranda or Mason were the DC and had the same result because of the lack of talent, this fan base would want to fire them as well.

This fan base has a history of going from 1 to "fire him" at the slightest hint of adversity.

 

[vols 30]

Doesnt matter if you fire Banks, defense will take another step back next season due to loss of seniors.

IDK. Some of those seniors were the problem. Maybe younger means better( not twss)

 

[VolDad1999]

There is no need to echo the wisdom of others who point out the loss of depth and more physically more gifted athletes on defense. I have been blessed to coach teams with an abundance of talent and wins were easy to come by. In contrast, I have also coached teams that were young, and I had to address poor fundamentals before we could see the results on the field. With that being said, I am concerned with the lack of fundamentals and discipline at times. The secondary is still out of position at times and looking lost on other plays. I agree with pushing pause on termination, but there needs to be a significant improvement on the development of these young men with fundamental technique and situational game awareness.

 

[perico]

Hell if we had hired Steele instead of Pruitt, Garner has said that he was coming as his DC. If we have to make a change, just promote him. That’s the one coach we can’t afford to lose again on defense. As long as Rodney is happy, I’m happy. We are fine at LB and DL. It’s our secondary that’s an issue, and some of that is just a lack of talent and younger guys getting comfortable. I’m excited about the potential of the young DBs and Turrentine.

 

[beamerman]

Agree.

The right players can make mediocre coaches look great and the wrong players can make great coaches look mediocre. Happens all the time, more noticeable with the QB position but valid across the board.

Banks would look a lot different if we had Georgia or Alabama’s roster, especially their DBs.

Agree and here’s something similar. Tn under Majors hired Ken Donahue from Bama, considered a top hire, who put in the great defensive game plan for the 85 Sugar Bowl against Miami. Donahue was let go the next season after an 0-6 start. Tn finished with 5 wins. Did Donahue forget defense or did he have lesser players the next year? Or, did the better players from the previous year make him look better?