For those always talking about recruiting rankings

#152
#152
ScornedPapaVol said:
That hit on Harrison cost them. That was a score until he was clearly and obviously targeted. Then when he couldn't return, they were done. Georgia was certainly on the ropes until that point.
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Look at last year, Bama would’ve likely beaten UGA if Metchie and Williams hadn’t gone down, but they did and UGA won. Changes the whole narrative.
 
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#154
#154
BigALWiLson said:
There is a difference in ranking kids talent levels and what those teams put on the field. Development is key and has been forever. Most are seeing this happen right in front of us here at Tennessee. Kids are being developed. Yes you need talent but you also need people to take you to the next level. I'm in toatl agreement that many 3s out play 4s and 5s. It does happen. I don't put stock into services as much as I do the coaches recruiting those players.
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Here are some rambling thoughts that hopefully explain better where I stand. I am NOT against the recruiting sites. I do NOT think they're useless. As a fan... I enjoy them and how they make me "feel" when the Vols seem tob e getting good players-

Coaching and development matter a great deal. Someone said talent is "90%". I think when there are enough talented 3* who can be developed "skill" and development account for much more.

The rankings mean "something" just not as much as some think. They are better at predicting a roster than predicting an individual player. They are much better at predicting the top 5 than the next 20 and better picking those 20 than the next 100. The recruiting rankings are "accurate" when they agree with or play off guys like Saban with a proven track record of not only being able to use a stop watch but also recognize the other things that make a great football player beyond measurables.

They aren't extremely accurate when you look at their whole body of work simply because it isn't physically possible for them to be. They do not have either the expertise or the resources. It is fairly safe to say that #10 has more talent than #50... It isn't as safe to say that #4 has more talent than #12. The composite talent rosters that 247 produces each year are probably their "best" predictors. And there are too many "exceptions" to claim that even those are extremely accurate.

Miami was the 12th most talented roster in '22 according to 247. They lost 7 games. They lost to TAM #4, MTSU #102, UNC #16, Duke #64, FSU #17, Clemson #5, and Pitt #46. Supposedly their coach doesn't suck... if he does he is a master salesman considering the recruits he continues to get. Youth explains some of that... but all of it?

There are elite players and choosing 30 or so out of them to be labeled 5* isn't that much of a challenge. Slapping 4* on the next 70 or so is also fairly safe. Then... you get into murky waters. That next group has around 2000 players that the recruiting sites have enough information on to give any rating at all. They end up splitting hairs between a kid like Miami commit Mark Fletcher who is ranked the #15 RB and a 4* vs Keith who is ranked 40th and a 3*. Watch their highlights when you get a chance. Keith's are just as impressive and he looks to have better top end speed.

This is a good time to interject and point out what their business is. Their business isn't to identify the best players in the country so top programs can pursue them. Their business is to make money from college football fans who are starving for information on their team and anything to fill the void between January and August. It isn't really that much of a surprise when you get more info and higher ratings for players recruited by certain conferences and schools. Those fanbases provide all of the monetized clicks and subscriptions.

The ratings and rankings are a trailing indicator.





Picking 30 5* players and especially with the help of a bunch of drooling high tier coaches chasing them... isn't hard. In any given class, there are probably 2 or 3 times that number that have equal talent. Some go unnoticed. But being 60% accurate out 30 selections when the actual "population" of elite players is probably 100... is "OK".
 
#155
#155
ScornedPapaVol said:
And the coaches recruited the players. The narrative that Kirby can't coach and that we are somehow going to "out-coach" him are as false as the tooth fairy rumors.
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He isn't awful. He can be outcoached. You could say he's average or even above average when it comes to schemes and gameday. You could argue that he's above average. But his greatest strength is finding talent and skill development.
 
#156
#156
ScornedPapaVol said:
That hit on Harrison cost them. That was a score until he was clearly and obviously targeted. Then when he couldn't return, they were done. Georgia was certainly on the ropes until that point.
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That wasn't targeting. It wasn't really even very close.
 
#158
#158
sjt18 said:
He isn't awful. He can be outcoached. You could say he's average or even above average when it comes to schemes and gameday. You could argue that he's above average. But his greatest strength is finding talent and skill development.
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🤣 That's like saying a lion's greatest strength is his great power and sharp claws. Hopefully we can out coach him this year in Neyland. I'd ask what's an example of him being out coached in the last 3 seasons.
 
#159
#159
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#167
#167
ScornedPapaVol said:
🤣 That's like saying a lion's greatest strength is his great power and sharp claws. Hopefully we can out coach him this year in Neyland. I'd ask what's an example of him being out coached in the last 3 seasons.
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Well, no. It is a response to your claim that the idea that someone could be good enough to outcoach him is "as false as tooth fairy rumors". Drinkwicz outcoached him this year as did Stoops. UGA had an overwhelming talent advantage in both games. Give him credit for adjusting but Saban outcoached him in their first meeting last year
 
#168
#168
ScornedPapaVol said:
https://youtube.com/shorts/9JEcicS3KHw?feature=share
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So some guy on youtube "said so"? That's your proof.

The player led with his shoulder. First contact was shoulder to shoulder. The incidental head contact was due to the whiplash. It also wasn't a completely defenseless player. He lowered his own head.

If you're going to call that targeting then just forget about the game... just start playing flag football. That was a hard hit. It wasn't targeting even as explained by the guy in that video.
 
#169
#169
sjt18 said:
Well, no. It is a response to your claim that the idea that someone could be good enough to outcoach him is "as false as tooth fairy rumors". Drinkwicz outcoached him this year as did Stoops. UGA had an overwhelming talent advantage in both games. Give him credit for adjusting but Saban outcoached him in their first meeting last year
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Being good enough to out-coach him without comparable talent is a rumor. And completely false. Ohio State was doing it until the targeting, but they are very nearly equally talented. Saban is the greatest. At Missouri & Kentucky they didn't care.


So what are so you saying?
 
#170
#170
sjt18 said:
So some guy on youtube "said so"? That's your proof.

The player led with his shoulder. First contact was shoulder to shoulder. The incidental head contact was due to the whiplash. It also wasn't a completely defenseless player. He lowered his own head.

If you're going to call that targeting then just forget about the game... just start playing flag football. That was a hard hit. It wasn't targeting even as explained by the guy in that video.
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Screenshot_2023-01-10-10-00-25-471.jpg*read* carefully, while considering that Harrison was looking up at the ball, about to make a catch.
 
#172
#172
ScornedPapaVol said:
Being good enough to out-coach him without comparable talent is a rumor. And completely false. Ohio State was doing it until the targeting, but they are very nearly equally talented. Saban is the greatest. At Missouri & Kentucky they didn't care.
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No. Being "good enough" to outcoach him has nothing to do with having comparable talent. You need enough talent if you are actually GOING to do it. But a coach having the ability is not directly tied to the amount of talent they have.

And... so? Smart's job is to get his team ready. Even if you were right and they "didn't care"... that's a function of coaching. It is something that almost got him beat and especially at Mizzou. Stoops baited him into playing UK's game. Stoops according to some has intentionally built a team and style of play to compete against UGA.


So what are so you saying?
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Other than you're wrong about it being impossible to beat Smart?
 
#174
#174
ScornedPapaVol said:
View attachment 530330*read* carefully, while considering that Harrison was looking up at the ball, about to make a catch.
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That is WHOLLY subjective.

That wasn't targeting. I understand UGA hatred. I can't pull for OSU but understand someone pulling against UGA. I wish both could have lost. I was NEUTRAL... and it wasn't targeting. If it was then tackle football is done. Just cancel next season. The defender even turned his body (which I hate) to avoid leading with his head. He was no more targeting the WR than the WR was targeting him. He initiated the contact but that doesn't make it targeting.
 
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