For those still on the fence about Jones....

[checkerboards09]

Until a loss the next week takes them to 4-1 or 3-2. Then you will be back on the fence.

As I've mentioned, a loss to Oklahoma won't be as bad as a loss to Florida. I expect losses this year, but one of them is not to the Gators. Getting the Gator monkey off of our backs is #1 this year imo.

 

[butchna]

Its been said since 2010.

But you're judging...him? He was at Cincy. You're giving Dooley his rebuilding points

 

[checkerboards09]

I think those of you on the fence should go ahead slide off toward the Butch side of things. This should not be a make or break year for Butch. Most people in national media look to next year for the vols being legitimate East contenders. I think all of the buzz around the program says this year, which makes some want to go find a fence to jump on if the team does not live up to the hype. It's this type of knee jerk reaction that can hold a program back. Looking ahead to the future recruiting classes, this team will be solid with some good depth. Any negative reaction or hot seat talk after this season would only weaken what this staff has worked so hard for. In this world of instant gratification, we need to be patient. For you fence sitters, what coach could Dave Hart hire that would do better than what Jones has done for this program?

According to the SEC Network preview, we go 10-2 this year. I'd say that qualifies as this year being the year we contend for the East. These "next year" posts are worn out.

 

[Other_Guy]

I'm only concerned about the SEC games. If we crush Oklahoma but do crappy in the SEC than CBJ should go coach in another conference.
That said, the MUST wins are:
Florida
Mizzou
Vandy
Kentucky
Arkansas

South Carolina underachieved last year playing us. I expect them to be ready against us. Mizzou and Florida overachieved while playing us. We are just the better team right now. No excuses
We need to beat Arkansas to prove we are ahead of them. This will help in recruiting

Beating a likely top 15 Arkansas is not a must, but I do have that as a W.

 

[EZE]

No. I'm judging a building project by the progress and quality of progress that's been made.



It doesn't take 4 or 5 years to get to 8 wins if your rebuilding is working. Your analogy was a very poor one but using it... a painting doesn't look like crap then suddenly become a masterpiece with the last stroke. There is recognizable progress.

If you can't see recognizable progress, you should go see your eye doctor.

 

[JC61]

As I've mentioned, a loss to Oklahoma won't be as bad as a loss to Florida. I expect losses this year, but one of them is not to the Gators. Getting the Gator monkey off of our backs is #1 this year imo.

OK...what if UF is better than anticipated?

Hypothetically (and hypothetical are almost always...out there); We go 10-2....Gators go 11-1....we lose on a last second 55 yd field goal, in the swamp, 12-10.

Unacceptable????? We all lived that through much of the 90's and early 00's....with the scores generally more lopsided.

 

[Other_Guy]

whew....ok, hope this doesn't get too long....but it will

Disclaimer up front it may cover concepts and thoughts sprinkled throughout this thread.

I am not on the fence...I am in full Butch mode right now. Why...LEADERSHIP - he is a leader, and the CULTURE he has instilling in this team....our team....IS paying dividends. First year is a wash to a degree because he had to deal with what he had...some guys bought in and others didn't (I've said before...I don't think our vaulted OLine bought in fully...hence Vandy). Last year that young team fought hard for 4 Qtrs and had a lot of close games that could have turned out different...could have been uglier too. 7-6 aint bad for the "youngest" team, that had to replace the entire front lines on O and D, in FBS!

While the injuries and guys bolting is concerning....a. you have to practice hard and b. if guys aren't going to buy in and won't give their all....well, maybe that's the price of building a team....dare I say dynasty.

Butch has proven he can win...maybe in lesser leagues, but he can win. Now, let's think about a diminutive man...whom we like to despise...called Saban. By record...he was a mediocre coach...given a shot at LSU. Guess what, he was slightly above average (to most of VOL nation thinking) for 3 out of the 5 years there and it won't consecutively. He fails in the NFL....what did Bama see....what special sauce did he have....hhmmm....maybe experience and a recipe....he calls it "process" for success.

Moving on. I think there are 4 categories of coaches....sometimes they fall in between the lines and maybe on the cusp of going up or down:

HOF-great
Very Good
Good
Mediocre-Bad

At this particular point in time I think CBJ is between the Good to Very Good....he may need a little more seasoning to move forward and finally reach the HOF level. Think Beamer and VT...how long did they wait...and dude can/could flat out coach. Do you really want to be the program to let this guy go? I say give him at least 5 years; the attitude and difference in culture alone is enough to see he is trying to right the ship and enough to give him a couple more years. To do otherwise, unless you think we can get an absolute homerun hire....and that is subjective as well, is to invite another 2-4 years of mediocrity.

Butch is the guy....he's demonstrated it in various intagibles; that, while may not result in wins and immediate success, do result in building a PROGRAM....and dare I say, dynasty. He still needs to learn and develop himself....maybe some position coaching changes are in order...but the dude will be successful and WE will look back either happy or very pissed (i.e. he leaves and succeeds elsewhere)....depending on how this shakes out.

I don't apologize for the length....I know the microwave popcorn crowd won't appreciate....but these are my thoughts, as succinctly as possible, given the context.

Sldidnt Saban win a NC at LSU?

 

[EZE]

As I've mentioned, a loss to Oklahoma won't be as bad as a loss to Florida. I expect losses this year, but one of them is not to the Gators. Getting the Gator monkey off of our backs is #1 this year imo.

So, you wouldn't take 11-1 with a loss to Florida, right?

 

[JC61]

Sldidnt Saban win a NC at LSU?

yes sir....turned around and went 9-3, which some guys on here think is unacceptable.

AP actually put USC at #1 that year....so, there's that as well.

point was...up until that point there was nothing "special" about his coaching record....in the context of all written throughout the thread.

 

[checkerboards09]

So, you wouldn't take 11-1 with a loss to Florida, right?

I think most of us would, but what's the likelihood of that happening? If we have another loss early in the season to a Florida team that's in shambles atm, what would make you confident in going undefeated with the rest of the schedule? Also, if it did happen that way, will people finally admit that we really are cursed against the Gators?

 

[checkerboards09]

OK...what if UF is better than anticipated?

Hypothetically (and hypothetical are almost always...out there); We go 10-2....Gators go 11-1....we lose on a last second 55 yd field goal, in the swamp, 12-10.

Unacceptable????? We all lived that through much of the 90's and early 00's....with the scores generally more lopsided.

We're the more talented team this year and Florida is breaking in a new staff. We can play the "what if" game all day long, but with everything the way it is in reality, we should win this game in dominating fashion.

 

[flatiron]

We're the more talented team this year and Florida is breaking in a new staff. We can play the "what if" game all day long, but with everything the way it is in reality, we should win this game in dominating fashion.

I would just happy with us beating them in any fashion at this point

 

[bhouston79]

For me, a 10-2 finish in the regular season would have me 95% confident that he is the real deal. A 9-3 finish would have me about 75% confident. An 8-4 finish would leave me still on the fence (i.e. 50% confidence). Anything below 8-4 would indicate to me that he is not the real deal because there is simply too much talent on this team not to win at least 8 games. Obviously anything above ten wins (which I think is possible with our level of talent) would leave me thinking that perhaps we have an elite (i.e. Nick Saban/Urban Meyer) coach on our hands. The consensus seems to be that this team will win 8 or 9 games. The truth is that this season is filled with a wide range of possibilities. Go Vols! Let's party like its 1998!:dance2:

 

[JC61]

We're the more talented team this year and Florida is breaking in a new staff. We can play the "what if" game all day long, but with everything the way it is in reality, we should win this game in dominating fashion.

have to agree 100%....but in reality...what in the past 20+ years has convinced you that "shoulda" is "dida"?

Our fellas should win this game...and I want to see them dominate, to the point of embarrassment....but it's a game, $h1t happens....and the best team doesn't always win.

 

[ReaderVol]

I've argued with people when they have said "we have the dumbest fans in the nation at UT" I always told my friends to chill.
This thread shows I was wrong. 1 week prior to SEC media days most fans on here would have been happy with 8 wins. Then the media lost their damned minds and our "dumb" fans followed suit. Either our fans are dumb as a box of rocks or we have a fan base that's got a bad case of amnesia.
Do all of you knuckle heads not remember the dumpster fire he walked into? If anyone cannot see the VAST improvement this staff has injected into this PROGRAM they are blind. This is not Dooley who was incompetent at best. Or Kiffin who was derelict at best. We are the same team before the media buzz went berserk which is an 8 win team. Can we win more? Yes but that would just be gravy. Next year is the true season of big advancement.

 

[KBVol]

OK...what if UF is better than anticipated?

Hypothetically (and hypothetical are almost always...out there); We go 10-2....Gators go 11-1....we lose on a last second 55 yd field goal, in the swamp, 12-10.

Unacceptable????? We all lived that through much of the 90's and early 00's....with the scores generally more lopsided.

Of course that wouldn't be unacceptable....10-2 would be lauded and appreciated as a special season no matter how we get there.

 

[checkerboards09]

But you're judging...him? He was at Cincy. You're giving Dooley his rebuilding points

Yeah, gotta be more careful lol.

 

[Hank Bukowski]

As we all know, WINS are what make or break a coaching career. I happen to still be one of those on the fence about Jones until I see results on the field, which should be understandable. Looking at the big picture, for me, 3-1 with the loss being to Oklahoma or 4-0 would get me on the wagon 100%. Jones has been incredible with everything else, he's bringing in the talent, etc., but the big wins gotta start early this year with the Gators being right there. For those still in doubt, what point in the season would get you fully on board?

I will get fully on board right before kickoff next Saturday. Wait...I've been fully on board for a while, at least since the SC game last year...

 

[LA Vol]

I'll add one more thought for the apologists who insist that 7 wins would show improvement or who try and argue that "he's actually just in year 2", which is absurd. Butch can lose to Oklahoma at home, Georgia at home, Arkansas at home and Alabama on the road....and while many/most would be disappointed with the losses in Neyland, we'd finish 8-4 and many/most would be "pleased" with an 8 win season and a solid bowl game and chance to win 9 games. That's very, very reasonable and more than fair to Butch IMHO.

I get where you're coming from, but losing 3 out of 3 key swing games in Neyland would not be well-received by a large contingent of fans-- especially since we could be favored in several of those games. IMO, we need to win at least 1 of those 3-- preferably UGA, which would keep us in the hunt for the East.

This is Year 3. We have to show we can win some of those tough games, like Okla, Arky, UGA and Bama. That's the next step, and until we take it, the questions are gonna be there.

 

[champyvol]

As we all know, WINS are what make or break a coaching career. I happen to still be one of those on the fence about Jones until I see results on the field, which should be understandable. Looking at the big picture, for me, 3-1 with the loss being to Oklahoma or 4-0 would get me on the wagon 100%. Jones has been incredible with everything else, he's bringing in the talent, etc., but the big wins gotta start early this year with the Gators being right there. For those still in doubt, what point in the season would get you fully on board?

well said. i'll just see how he coaches on game days. so far have been less than impressed. Worley starting last year still has me confused.

 

[onevol74]

As we all know, WINS are what make or break a coaching career. I happen to still be one of those on the fence about Jones until I see results on the field, which should be understandable. Looking at the big picture, for me, 3-1 with the loss being to Oklahoma or 4-0 would get me on the wagon 100%. Jones has been incredible with everything else, he's bringing in the talent, etc., but the big wins gotta start early this year with the Gators being right there. For those still in doubt, what point in the season would get you fully on board?

9 wins are a must this season. I think he is doing a great job of attracting talent. But the question is if he can develop that talent? The factor that may be his biggest challenge is with the offensive line. This is a line of scrimmage league and with an average OL he will be an average SEC coach. The OL was the biggest factor in the end of the Majors and beginning of the Fulmer era of UT football. Everything else followed.

As far as the 9 wins are concerned it just has to happen. I really do not care how he makes the sausage and I do not want to hear about injuries etc, at the end of the season.

 

[NashVol11]

well said. i'll just see how he coaches on game days. so far have been less than impressed. Worley starting last year still has me confused.

"He was trying to redshirt Dobbs, not win games!"

 

[KBVol]

I get where you're coming from, but losing 3 out of 3 key swing games in Neyland would not be well-received by a large contingent of fans-- especially since we could be favored in several of those games. IMO, we need to win at least 1 of those 3-- preferably UGA, which would keep us in the hunt for the East.

This is Year 3. We have to show we can win some of those tough games, like Okla, Arky, UGA and Bama. That's the next step, and until we take it, the questions are gonna be there.

Tried to couch it as best I could. Was also trying to define what a 4 loss season likely looks like for those guys on here projecting 5 losses and saying that it'll show progress from last year's 6 loss season. I fully agree with you that we have to start beating the better teams on our schedule, especially our rivals. Until then, nobody should be starting any "We're Back" threads.

 

[ReaderVol]

well said. i'll just see how he coaches on game days. so far have been less than impressed. Worley starting last year still has me confused.

Why is that confusing? Everyone knew last year was year 2 in a massive rebuilding project. We had no idea for sure that we'd get Dormady or the other young QB's and that have committed we were NO WAY ready to compete for titles. So why burn a year or get Dobbs hurt? It's easy to look back now and say "we should have started Dobbs day 1". But at the time it made perfect sense for the program to play Worley.

 

[madbamahater]

Needs to beat Floirda and obviously don't believe it til I see it. Can't lose to South Carolina or Missouri in my opinion, I think these are his MUST WINS.....in addition to beating all these teams he SHOULD on the schedule.

Trying to remind myself that Jones only has 2 losses to Florida and not all 10. I will say that the Florida loss last season was by far the lowest point of his in game coaching tenure at UT. Just flat out an absurd situation and I'm HOPING much of that was because of Bajakian. I'm afraid not, but I'm hoping.....

Would be wonderful if he beats at least 2 of the following:

Oklahoma, Florida, Georgia, Alabama.

I will say this without meaning moral victory....it is encouraging to see the players give effort the whole game and not quit. We haven't seen that in years in Knoxville. The margin for error is was so thin last year due to still having lack of reputable talent to compete, but they played hard. Again, something that's been lacking for years. They play for butch! Now with more talent, we will see if they can pull out some wins so long they limit some of the erroneous coaching decisions we've seen the last 2 years.