For those who regretted the Butch Jones hire.

#126
#126
oregonvol said:
Good lord, I get sick of reading this revisionist silliness on here all the time. When LSU hired Nick Saban, it was considered a huge get (at least nationally, I don't know what the local Knoxville press was saying, since I didn't live there at the time, but in the rest of the country, Saban was considered an excellent coach and recruiter. Here was a guy who took over a program that didn't win a game the previous year and he had them in the top 10 in 5 years, and regularly upset highly ranked rivals). The consensus amongst national sports pundits was that Saban would be really successful at LSU.

Opinions of how Urban Meyer would do at Florida were more mixed, but many recognized that he was a championship caliber coach. I knew plenty of Florida fans who were talking national championship the moment he was hired. It is ridiculous to say "virtually nobody thought" they would have great success and pretend it is the same as our recent hires.
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Revisionist history my arse. Nick Saban was a highly regarded coach, but he was hardly a world beater prior to being hired at LSU. Who predicted he was gonna rule the SEC? 34-24-1 in a 2 team league that was the Big 10? Course he did have those Big 10 coach of the year awards... oh he didn't, my bad, how could I have missed that? And did you say he had some big wins in year 5? Really? He'd be fired with three 6-7 win seasons in today's world of college football. Never would've gotten a 5th year after that 6 win 4th season.

He won 6, 6, 7 ,6 and 9 games at Mich State... Whew!!! Who didn't see him winning 4 National Titles at 2 different schools in the most difficult conference in the country? I must've been the only one, eh? Cause clearly you did, right?

As far as Meyer, yeah he went 22-2 in the.... wait for it..... Mighty Mountain West Conference! Wow! What the hell was I thinking? He compiled that awesome record beating up on the likes of Wyoming, Air Force and Nevada Las Vegas. Btw, isn't that the knock a lot of you guys have against Butch? That he built his record in the Big East against a bunch of pathetic teams and there's no way he can win in the mighty SEC? Hypocrite.

At least Meyer did have an excellent record and did win a Coach of the Year Award or two.... More than I can say for Saban. All that being said, you're right, everybody knew he could take that funky offense that killed in the MWC and win a couple NCs at Florida, right? Everybody should've just asked you, you'd have told em huh Oregon. Talk about your revisionist history.

Oh and btw, would love to read your take on the other examples, you know, Tressel and Miles? Remind me of how everybody knew they were gonna rack up the Top 5 teams and NCs based on their work at OK St and Youngstown State would ya? Thanks.
 
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#127
#127
tm3 said:
when he arrived at UF Meyer was coming off back to back outright conference titles, had a conference record of 13-1, and an overall record of 22-2. Jones had a 3 way and a 4 way tie for the title in a conference that has, what, 8 teams and his conference record was 12-9 with an overall record of 23-14.

imo predicting Meyer success was a lot more certain than predicting Jones success.
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Meyer was 22-2 in the Mighty Mountain West Conference! Before that he coached at that big time power Bowling Green State... Yeah he had future 2 time NC winning coach written all over him. He compiled that awesome record beating up on the likes of Wyoming, Air Force, San Diego State, and Nevada Las Vegas. Plus, let me get a show of hands from the SEC stalwarts who believed that funky offense that ruled the MWC would translate... no takers? Exactly.

Of course, Meyer won the Mountain West with 11 wins and he was predicted be a world beater in the SEC. Butch wins the MAC with 11 wins and shares a big East Title with 10 wins and we're not sure if he can make it in the SEC. Ok, got it.
 
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#128
#128
I think its safe to say NS and CUM know how to coach talented players. I also think its safe to say there are a ton of bad coaches. NS has a simple offense and defense and simply beats his opponents by making fewer mistakes.
 
#129
#129
oregonvol said:
Good lord, I get sick of reading this revisionist silliness on here all the time. When LSU hired Nick Saban, it was considered a huge get (at least nationally, I don't know what the local Knoxville press was saying, since I didn't live there at the time, but in the rest of the country, Saban was considered an excellent coach and recruiter. Here was a guy who took over a program that didn't win a game the previous year and he had them in the top 10 in 5 years, and regularly upset highly ranked rivals). The consensus amongst national sports pundits was that Saban would be really successful at LSU.

Opinions of how Urban Meyer would do at Florida were more mixed, but many recognized that he was a championship caliber coach. I knew plenty of Florida fans who were talking national championship the moment he was hired. It is ridiculous to say "virtually nobody thought" they would have great success and pretend it is the same as our recent hires.
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where you really paying attention to football then ?? because i distinctly remember people saying saban and myers both would never make it in the SEC and both hires where looked at cautiously. you are revising history if anybody is.
 
#130
#130
KoachKletus said:
"Mend the fanbase?" Fair weather fans can eat my lumpy shorts. I can understand not supporting a coach, but fans need to support our team through thick and thin. :salute:
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The fans haven't had much to believe in for 4+ years, and if you think for an instant that the fans should go into the fire pit once again without having something concrete to get behind, then you have zero common sense in regards to where are as a program currently. Jones may very well be great for this program, but he may also not be. I will be as patient with Jones ans Co. as I can, given they give me a reason on the field to continue that patience. Winning cures all, and that's what Jones has to do by year 3 to survive the SEC and our fan base.
 
#131
#131
bleedorange0037 said:
Zook's last two years at UF yielded the #2 and #3 classes in the SEC respectively. Dooley never even sniffed a class that highly rated with regards to his competition. It's also worth noting that after a lackluster first class, Zook improved greatly in the following years. Dooley on the other hand was constantly on a downward trajectory.
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He was too busy recruiting staff members
 
#132
#132
This board used to celebrate that somebody "wants it". Now we celebrate that somebody "gets it". Gotta figure that's an improvement.
 
#133
#133
KBVol said:
Revisionist history my arse. Nick Saban was a highly regarded coach, but he was hardly a world beater prior to being hired at LSU. Who predicted he was gonna rule the SEC? 34-24-1 in a 2 team league that was the Big 10? Course he did have those Big 10 coach of the year awards... oh he didn't, my bad, how could I have missed that? And did you say he had some big wins in year 5? Really? He'd be fired with three 6-7 win seasons in today's world of college football. Never would've gotten a 5th year after that 6 win 4th season.

He won 6, 6, 7 ,6 and 9 games at Mich State... Whew!!! Who didn't see him winning 4 National Titles at 2 different schools in the most difficult conference in the country? I must've been the only one, eh? Cause clearly you did, right?

As far as Meyer, yeah he went 22-2 in the.... wait for it..... Mighty Mountain West Conference! Wow! What the hell was I thinking? He compiled that awesome record beating up on the likes of Wyoming, Air Force and Nevada Las Vegas. Btw, isn't that the knock a lot of you guys have against Butch? That he built his record in the Big East against a bunch of pathetic teams and there's no way he can win in the mighty SEC? Hypocrite.

At least Meyer did have an excellent record and did win a Coach of the Year Award or two.... More than I can say for Saban. All that being said, you're right, everybody knew he could take that funky offense that killed in the MWC and win a couple NCs at Florida, right? Everybody should've just asked you, you'd have told em huh Oregon. Talk about your revisionist history.

Oh and btw, would love to read your take on the other examples, you know, Tressel and Miles? Remind me of how everybody knew they were gonna rack up the Top 5 teams and NCs based on their work at OK St and Youngstown State would ya? Thanks.
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When he made that response I was going to post a retort....then thought better of it...I counted on your response to take care of business...oh boy did you ever KB...remind me never to cross you!
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#134
#134
vols4evah said:
where you really paying attention to football then ?? because i distinctly remember people saying saban and myers both would never make it in the SEC and both hires where looked at cautiously. you are revising history if anybody is.
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I was thinking the same thing. Saban had a modest run with 4 uneventful seasons at Michigan State before his last season there when they had a 9 win season including beating Florida in a bowl game. LSU was ready for anyone after Gerry Dinardo ran them into the ground. I think people say what they want to believe a lot of times as opposed to using actual facts.
 
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#135
#135
KBVol said:
Revisionist history my arse. Nick Saban was a highly regarded coach, but he was hardly a world beater prior to being hired at LSU. Who predicted he was gonna rule the SEC? 34-24-1 in a 2 team league that was the Big 10? Course he did have those Big 10 coach of the year awards... oh he didn't, my bad, how could I have missed that? And did you say he had some big wins in year 5? Really? He'd be fired with three 6-7 win seasons in today's world of college football. Never would've gotten a 5th year after that 6 win 4th season.

He won 6, 6, 7 ,6 and 9 games at Mich State... Whew!!! Who didn't see him winning 4 National Titles at 2 different schools in the most difficult conference in the country? I must've been the only one, eh? Cause clearly you did, right?

As far as Meyer, yeah he went 22-2 in the.... wait for it..... Mighty Mountain West Conference! Wow! What the hell was I thinking? He compiled that awesome record beating up on the likes of Wyoming, Air Force and Nevada Las Vegas. Btw, isn't that the knock a lot of you guys have against Butch? That he built his record in the Big East against a bunch of pathetic teams and there's no way he can win in the mighty SEC? Hypocrite.

At least Meyer did have an excellent record and did win a Coach of the Year Award or two.... More than I can say for Saban. All that being said, you're right, everybody knew he could take that funky offense that killed in the MWC and win a couple NCs at Florida, right? Everybody should've just asked you, you'd have told em huh Oregon. Talk about your revisionist history.

Oh and btw, would love to read your take on the other examples, you know, Tressel and Miles? Remind me of how everybody knew they were gonna rack up the Top 5 teams and NCs based on their work at OK St and Youngstown State would ya? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Roasted!
 
#136
#136
KBVol said:
Revisionist history my arse. Nick Saban was a highly regarded coach, but he was hardly a world beater prior to being hired at LSU. Who predicted he was gonna rule the SEC? 34-24-1 in a 2 team league that was the Big 10? Course he did have those Big 10 coach of the year awards... oh he didn't, my bad, how could I have missed that? And did you say he had some big wins in year 5? Really? He'd be fired with three 6-7 win seasons in today's world of college football. Never would've gotten a 5th year after that 6 win 4th season.

He won 6, 6, 7 ,6 and 9 games at Mich State... Whew!!! Who didn't see him winning 4 National Titles at 2 different schools in the most difficult conference in the country? I must've been the only one, eh? Cause clearly you did, right?

As far as Meyer, yeah he went 22-2 in the.... wait for it..... Mighty Mountain West Conference! Wow! What the hell was I thinking? He compiled that awesome record beating up on the likes of Wyoming, Air Force and Nevada Las Vegas. Btw, isn't that the knock a lot of you guys have against Butch? That he built his record in the Big East against a bunch of pathetic teams and there's no way he can win in the mighty SEC? Hypocrite.

At least Meyer did have an excellent record and did win a Coach of the Year Award or two.... More than I can say for Saban. All that being said, you're right, everybody knew he could take that funky offense that killed in the MWC and win a couple NCs at Florida, right? Everybody should've just asked you, you'd have told em huh Oregon. Talk about your revisionist history.

Oh and btw, would love to read your take on the other examples, you know, Tressel and Miles? Remind me of how everybody knew they were gonna rack up the Top 5 teams and NCs based on their work at OK St and Youngstown State would ya? Thanks.
Click to expand...

You are a straight up clown with a straw man argument. I never said "everyone" said anything. You stated that "nobody thought" they would be hugely successful, which is a flat out lie.

So now we're judging coaches on the number of coach of the year awards they've won? Why? Why not judge them on the number of top 25 teams they've beaten? Oh that doesn't fit your argument? It's cool, you'll just change whatever I say and argue against it anyway. I've grown tired of these third grade debating tactics.
 
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#137
#137
oregonvol said:
You are a straight up clown with a straw man argument. I never said "everyone" said anything. You stated that "nobody thought" they would be hugely successful, which is a flat out lie.

So now we're judging coaches on the number of coach of the year awards they've won? Why? Why not judge them on the number of top 25 teams they've beaten? Oh that doesn't fit your argument? It's cool, you'll just change whatever I say and argue against it anyway. I've grown tired of these third grade debating tactics.
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Alcohol pads work best when the cuts won't stop bleeding
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#140
#140
I'll be honest. I had my doubts about this hire but Butch Jones has really proved me wrong. He's done everything right at Tennessee so far and I'll support him 100% regardless whatever happens these next few years. I believe he'll bring us back on top where we belong! Go get e'm Butch!
 
#141
#141
I love CBJ right now. But then again, there is that voice in my head reminding me he hasn't done anything yet where it matters the most, on the field. I wanna see these threads after we play Oregon or Florida.
 
#142
#142
oregonvol said:
You are a straight up clown with a straw man argument. I never said "everyone" said anything. You stated that "nobody thought" they would be hugely successful, which is a flat out lie.

So now we're judging coaches on the number of coach of the year awards they've won? Why? Why not judge them on the number of top 25 teams they've beaten? Oh that doesn't fit your argument? It's cool, you'll just change whatever I say and argue against it anyway. I've grown tired of these third grade debating tactics.
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Yawn. For someone who usually writes reasonable posts a majority of the time, this is incoherent jibberish. Clearly touched a nerve.

Edit: by the way, I said virtually no one thought.... very easy after the fact to claim you or anyone else called the success they have had. Must've included "virtually" for geniuses like yourself. Bottom line, you came in on a discussion flaming and totally missed the point to begin with. Nice job.
 
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#143
#143
Simple if JG had came what 2 or 3 years then gone, i didnt know the man could recruits like this, i know he can coach think about it when we start winning coach will have his pick, move over saint nick Jesus is coming.
 
#144
#144
I was only disappointed with the Butch hire because I was sucked into believing the Gruden crowd.

However, once I realized that wasn't realistic, I started looking around and trying to identify the coach at a mid-tier school who was poised to break onto the big scene (similar to Urban, Kelly at ND, etc.). The coach that kept popping into my head was Butch. He has been successful at two stops and you can just see that he has something. The national media see it. Let's hope he becomes the next great coach in college football. it is possible.
 
#145
#145
EZE said:
I was only disappointed with the Butch hire because I was sucked into believing the Gruden crowd.

However, once I realized that wasn't realistic, I started looking around and trying to identify the coach at a mid-tier school who was poised to break onto the big scene (similar to Urban, Kelly at ND, etc.). The coach that kept popping into my head was Butch. He has been successful at two stops and you can just see that he has something. The national media see it. Let's hope he becomes the next great coach in college football. it is possible.
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I would feel better about Jones if every single bit of his experience was directly on the heels on Brian Kelly coaching that team. We know Kelly is capable of building a winner, and in this case it's kind of hard to differentiate what is truly Butch Jones handiwork, and what is simply him stepping in to keep a well oiled machine running after Kelly did all the heavy lifting. I'm not necessarily accusing Jones of being a coattail rider, just that there's no real available data for him as HC where he hasn't directly succeeded Kelly. I guess we'll get some this fall.
 
#146
#146
To all you football scholars - Newsflash:

As a fan it is fun to be upbeat and confident in your upcoming season.

Having "realistic" expectations sux.

I would go into a game hoping and rooting for a win if we fielded a group of blind pigmys.

GO BIG D#MN ORANGE!!!
 
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#148
#148
Yeah give BJ time and he will get us back to where we are supposed to be. I don't like to hear these unrealistic fans who say we are gonna win 7 or 8 games. Rebuilding takes time. I will be ok with a 500 season this year and then I expect to see some improvements BIG IMPROVEMENTS. I don't think that it's really a question that the defense will be better but that isn't really saying much. The offense I worry about. Ala is stacked Ga is stacked Lsu is stacked and so is Fla and Sc so lets keep things in perspective.
 
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