For those who regretted the Butch Jones hire.

#76
#76
Tumbleweedvol said:
My take is that we have a solid coach from a spread offense background stepping into a Pro-style quarterback oriented conference. Only coach who was successful with the spread was Urban Meyer at Florida with Tim Tebow. That literally was a perfect storm. Otherwise to be Successful in the SEC it's Pro-style. We'll see how he adapts. He is a good recruiter and I am one that never believe Tennessee is far behind in the number of top flight recruits coming out of the State. For years I've looked at rosters of other teams and it always seems their are many Tennessee players who had impacts around the south. Evidently we don't grade high in the recruiting rankings. Go Big O! :good!:
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This is another issue I have and will continue to have with Jones. The spread may very well work to some degree here, but to me personally, that type of offense is something that I despise watching. If it wins, obviously that will make it more palatable, but I'd much rather watch old school, smash mouth football where you just line up and push people out of the way as opposed to trying to beat them with the smoke and mirrors of the read option. Just my personal preference, but I realize that the game is evolving and teams like that are quickly becoming a thing of the past. I expect their demise to be even further quickened by the NFL outlawing RB's lowering their head and trying to run people over. I'm sure that rule will trickle down to college in the near future if it hasn't already done so. Speed, trickery and passing the ball A LOT really seem to be the way of the future.
 
#77
#77
Tumbleweedvol said:
My take is that we have a solid coach from a spread offense background stepping into a Pro-style quarterback oriented conference. Only coach who was successful with the spread was Urban Meyer at Florida with Tim Tebow. That literally was a perfect storm. Otherwise to be Successful in the SEC it's Pro-style. We'll see how he adapts. He is a good recruiter and I am one that never believe Tennessee is far behind in the number of top flight recruits coming out of the State. For years I've looked at rosters of other teams and it always seems their are many Tennessee players who had impacts around the south. Evidently we don't grade high in the recruiting rankings. Go Big O! :good!:
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Auburn ran spread as well and had a decent time with it. Common thread, exceptional qb play.

Pro Style requires good RB play.

Both require great defenses.
 
#78
#78
Im still on the fence until we start playing games.. again his measuring stick is Fla n bama.

Dools had two games that showed me he would not succeed at tn. 1. Lsu f up and 2 Kent. Both showed me he was never going to win here. I will be watching cbj with the same caution. Will he have similar games or will they fight n disciplined n piss some people off even if the lose?

Another thing that im not a fan of is his offense yes its good enough to get u 8 Or 9 wins but the only time a off like that has won championship in the sec has been with a special qb. More sec championships have been won with power running and pro style passing games with great def.

Go vols....
 
#79
#79
Tumbleweedvol said:
My take is that we have a solid coach from a spread offense background stepping into a Pro-style quarterback oriented conference. Only coach who was successful with the spread was Urban Meyer at Florida with Tim Tebow. That literally was a perfect storm. Otherwise to be Successful in the SEC it's Pro-style. We'll see how he adapts. He is a good recruiter and I am one that never believe Tennessee is far behind in the number of top flight recruits coming out of the State. For years I've looked at rosters of other teams and it always seems their are many Tennessee players who had impacts around the south. Evidently we don't grade high in the recruiting rankings. Go Big O! :good!:
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Texas A&M says hi
 
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#80
#80
bleedorange0037 said:
Depending on what you mean by "get it done" I'll agree with you. I do think Jones has what it takes to get UT back to a place where we can win 8-9 games a year. I don't however think he's ever going to win the SEC. The bar is just too high and there are too many great teams and coaches. Over the past 10 or so years, winning the SEC and winning the NC have become synonymous, and I just don't honestly think Jones is a NC winning level coach. If I had to guess, I'd say Jones will probably be here for 5-6 years, and at that point UT will probably want to go in another direction and look for a guy who is capable of going to the next level. Unlike his predecessor, I think Jones will leave the program appreciably better off than he found it.
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Just curious, what other coach in the country could UT have hired, in your opinion, that would come in here and get "the job done"?
 
#82
#82
92volalum said:
Im still on the fence until we start playing games.. again his measuring stick is Fla n bama.

Dools had two games that showed me he would not succeed at tn. 1. Lsu f up and 2 Kent. Both showed me he was never going to win here. I will be watching cbj with the same caution. Will he have similar games or will they fight n disciplined n piss some people off even if the lose?

Another thing that im not a fan of is his offense yes its good enough to get u 8 Or 9 wins but the only time a off like that has won championship in the sec has been with a special qb. More sec championships have been won with power running and pro style passing games with great def.

Go vols....
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urban cryer was successful in the SEC with an offense similar to Butch's, it comes down to having the right personnel to execute it. :twocents:
 
#83
#83
Boca Vol said:
I agree with this. The recruiting part is great but Dooley could recruit (see Patterson). It's what happens on the field that matters but that starts in the off-season and he seems to have the team believing.
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Dooley has decent recruiting success season 1 and 2 ...considering that most of season 1 was already set up when he arrived.

If Butches class holds up thru signing day ...it will surpass anything that the last two coaches did.

Keep in mind , successful recruiting does not just involv stars ad ratings. It also involves filling needs ...which Dooley and Kiffin both had some trouble with.
 
#86
#86
I was furious when they announced Coach Jones! I have sinced changed my mind and think we may have just been lucky! Don't think Hart should get much credit if Jones turns out to be very good! Think he got lucky also. What i worry about now is will the fan base be patient enough to let this play out in a reasonable amount of time. I doubt no matter who the coach was it is going to take a couple of years of good recruiting to turn completely around. I worry about keeping some of the recruits we now have if some of our fan base gets on message boards and starts with all the negativity that has been demonstrated in the past. If we will be somewhat patient and we are able to hang on to and build on to present recruiting class, we may very well may be on our way back to our rightful place in the football heirarchy.
 
#87
#87
KBVol said:
Just curious, what other coach in the country could UT have hired, in your opinion, that would come in here and get "the job done"?
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Honest answer IMO is that given the diminished state that Dooley left the program, there were no realistic options in that category. There is a long list of guys who could come here and had UT competing at the top if the SEC every year, but they weren't coming here to deal with this trainwreck.
 
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#88
#88
orangeluvr said:
urban cryer was successful in the SEC with an offense similar to Butch's, it comes down to having the right personnel to execute it. :twocents:
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I'd be willing to wager that Butch's offense bares very little resemblance to Urban Meyer's. Spread only means formation for him, not some type of read option happy, QB Keeper 15-20 times a game type O. I think we'll see an up tempo, spread formations, Prostyle, run heavy offense. Bet QB doesn't keep the ball on designed run plays more than 4-5 times per game. Just repeating what I've heard Butch consistently say.
 
#89
#89
bleedorange0037 said:
Honest answer IMO is that given the diminished state that Dooley left the program, there were no realistic options in that category. There is a long list of guys who could come here and had UT competing at the top if the SEC every year, but they weren't coming here to deal with this trainwreck.
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Who?
 
#90
#90
I like Coach Jones. He has set the expectations and the expectations are, as we all know, is to win. When I played football years ago, our coach told us that part of the reason we win is because we are expected to win. From the fans all the way down to ourselves. He said if we expect to win and believe we can win, then we will win. I think that Coach Jones does/will have these guys believing they can win. It's that mental edge that may not be much, but it could be enough to get the win at the end.
 
#91
#91
KBVol said:
Who?
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Do you really need a list of guys who are capable of winning titles? I'm sure you follow football and are aware of who they are. Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh, and John Gruden would all have been championship coaches here IMO, but they're all otherwise employed and/or had no interest in coaching in Knoxville. There just wasn't a great pool of available guys this offseason. UT may have taken the best available option within what they were capable of and willing to pay, but IMO they don't have a guy who is going to win the SEC. If Jones can't get UT there, then hopefully he will get us back to a place where we can hire someone like that next time around.
 
#92
#92
Yankee_Vol said:
I'll back CBJ 100% until he gives a reason not to
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I agree. I was never against the hire, and I hope and expect Butch will be successful, but some seem to think he is infallible. I love what he has done so far, but we must not gush and swoon too much until we see how it all translates to performance during the football season. Surely we cannot relate a hire entirely to off-season performance, but it appears that is the case with some.
 
#93
#93
Tumbleweedvol said:
My take is that we have a solid coach from a spread offense background stepping into a Pro-style quarterback oriented conference. Only coach who was successful with the spread was Urban Meyer at Florida with Tim Tebow. That literally was a perfect storm. Otherwise to be Successful in the SEC it's Pro-style. We'll see how he adapts. He is a good recruiter and I am one that never believe Tennessee is far behind in the number of top flight recruits coming out of the State. For years I've looked at rosters of other teams and it always seems their are many Tennessee players who had impacts around the south. Evidently we don't grade high in the recruiting rankings. Go Big O! :good!:
Click to expand...

I am not sure I follow you on this. 'The Spread' is a very generic term as is 'Pro Style' . Most NFL teams incorporate some form of 'spread' game into their offense, while being pro style . Manning is the perfect example of this . That being said , most SEC teams do as well . Bama and LSU do . SC does and uses zone reads alot , UGA Vandy and UK ...and UT last year as well. I think most NFL and college teams strive to be 'multiple...' spread it out or go I form or 2 tight and pound it.

Now if you mean spread option , or zone read style spreads ..thats a different beast. But not really . These running techniques are essentially just another style off running that creates more gaps.

Does it suprise you to know that CBJ has had success with a
'pro style' passing QB as well as with a duel threat QB ? That is the most exciting thing about his teams is that he tends to play to his players strengths and is capable of being successful with either type of athlete.
 
#94
#94
bleedorange0037 said:
Not for those of us who were willing to see it from the outset. I realize that my last post may not have been the most glowing endorsement for Jones, but I can assure you I NEVER said anything even a tiny fraction as positive about Dooley. I knew from the second he was hired that it was going to be a trainwreck. As I mentioned, I don't think Jones will ever lead UT to an SEC title, but honestly we don't need that right now. We need somebody who can stabilize our freefall, and then get the program back on an upward trajectory over the course of the next several years. I do think Jones is going to be able to to that.
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Oh I'm aware several knew Dooley sucked, myself included. But there were a ton of "Dooley is the man" threads/posts and a ton of venom spewed at anyone who didn't agree.

For the record I agree he will bring stability.
 
#95
#95
bleedorange0037 said:
Do you really need a list of guys who are capable of winning titles? I'm sure you follow football and are aware of who they are. Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Jim Harbaugh, and John Gruden would all have been championship coaches here IMO, but they're all otherwise employed and/or had no interest in coaching in Knoxville. There just wasn't a great pool of available guys this offseason. UT may have taken the best available option within what they were capable of and willing to pay, but IMO they don't have a guy who is going to win the SEC. If Jones can't get UT there, then hopefully he will get us back to a place where we can hire someone like that next time around.
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No, you're right, I don't need a name of already proven championship caliber coaches who are/were never realistic candidates to be UTs coach. I'm really not trying to be overly provocative here, but that's a very short list. Might as well add Bill Belichick, John Harbaugh, Tom Coughlin and even Bill Parcells while we're at it.

My point is that nobody at this point knows how Butch is gonna do... but his track record to date suggests that he has every bit as much a chance to have great success here as anybody who was actually available at the time of his hire. He certainly has as much a chance to win big here as Charlie Strong, who people really seemed to be excited anout, who he would've been 3-0 against were it not for an overtime loss last year at Louisville.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I'm not trying to persuade you otherwise ... just adding a little extra data to the conversation. Virtually nobody thought Saban going from Mich St to LSU, Tressel going from Youngstown St to OSU, Miles going from Okie St to LSU and Urban going from Utah to Fla would've had the success they've had.

I've been very impressed with how Butch has handled himself and his business as our head coach so far, and I'll choose to believe he will get the job done here until he proves otherwise.
 
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#96
#96
I believe we have more talent on this team than people believe. Prior coaching was herrendous. CBJ can coach. His prior success proves it. Seven wins this season is probable. Eight is possible. VFL!
 
#97
#97
I hope everyone who is still on the fence or is taking a wait
and see approach, understands we most likely won't see the any results for at least 2 years....
 
#100
#100
Saban is a perfect example that winning is about the Jimmys and Joes not x's and o's
 
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