For TN to get to elite status !

#51
#51
Stars from high school mean doodley squat.
How many on the roster chose the Vols over bama, clemson, ohio state and ga?
In a four year cycle, How many first, second and third round NFL draft choices did each have as compared to the Vols?
 
#52
#52
Difference is that Saban & Dabo can sell winning National Championships to these young kids because they’ve already done it. You can’t blame the kids for wanting to play for great coaches.

Mack Brown is selling the “future of this program” to these kids just like Butch did his first few years here at Tennessee. He pulled a lot of talent but couldn’t develop it worth a damn. Once Brown reaches his peak, all his momentum will start slowing down because let’s face it, he’s always going to be behind Clemson & Dabo.

It’s not that Pruitt isn’t a great recruiter because he has a lot of football knowledge better than most of us I’m sure. The problem is, he walked into the wrong place at the wrong time. The whole Schiano deal was absolutely embarrassing, let alone Currie promising that he would make the best hire available. The fan base had to step up for themselves even though the media gave us a bad name. Not to mention how Butch left a negative vibe around the locker room when he was fired. The players that didn’t want to be here, Pruitt had no choice but to let them walk.

You really can’t fault Pruitt for our past mistakes. Blame Hamilton and Currie for letting it happen.
 
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#53
#53
VolDaddy61 said:
I'm not sure why it's unreasonable to think we can consistently be a top ten team.
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We can get to that point I agree. The situation we are in right now though is that not only have not consistently beaten Top 10 teams, we haven't beaten 1 at all since 2006. That said, we need to consistently get back to consistently beating all of the traditional also rans on our schedule, we did that last year, with the obvious exceptions of the two opening out of conference games. Let's at least do that again. Pruitt is building the program the right way, along the lines of scrimmage, but we aren't making up talent ground on Bama and Georgia and the like at this point.
 
#54
#54
TrippieRedd said:
Just putting the main competition at each position.

QB: Daniels (5*), JG (4*), HB (5*)
RB: Gray (4*), Chandler (4*), Jordan (3*), Whitehead (4*)
WR: Palmer (3*), Keyton (4*), Gibbs (4*), Johnson (3*), Gibbs (4*), Hyatt (4*), Calloway (4*), Wideman (4*)
TE: Pope (3*), Beckwith (3*), Lowe (4*)

I don't feel like doing the OL and DL because they are both loaded with 4-5*'s

LB: Toot (4*), Crouch (4* was 5*), Peterson (4*), Eason (4*), French (4*)
OLB: Bennet (3*), Johnson (3*), Baron (4*), Joseph (4*), Harrison (4*)
DB: Like the OL/DL, it's loaded with talent.

Soooooo according to what you put, it seems to me we already have an elite roster
Maybe except for TE and OLB, but outside backer recruiting is getting better. Where we really lack is RB/TE recruiting.
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I’ve been explaining this to people for a while and literally wrote this same thing down on a piece of paper to show my old man why he was ridiculous for saying we don’t have a talented roster 🤷‍♂️ Good job tho !
 
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#55
#55
GojiraVol17 said:
I’ve been explaining this to people for a while and literally wrote this same thing down on a piece of paper to show my old man why he was ridiculous for saying we don’t have a talented roster 🤷‍♂️ Good job tho !
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Just need a QB.

Wish HB had the whole spring and summer
 
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#59
#59
Coddlecreek1 said:
Someone posted the “star status” on current and past All American teams, and most were ”3 stars”. Sorry can’t remember who did it. But I do believe ”3 stars” and “4stars” trumped ”5 stars” reaching AA status and successful pro status.
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It is about ratios and probabilities. There are hundreds and hundreds of 3*s. Probably 250 or so 4s. Only ~32 5s. 5s have the highest success rate, 4s next, and so on.
 
#62
#62
I always like being the devil’s advocate. Many look at being in the SEC as a burden. I see most every kid near SEC country wanting to play in the top conference. Tenn is at least the 5th or 6th best known team in the conference. Better season records mean more top players coming here.
I am on the side of coaching being more important than players. Better coaches get better players. Did Ala have all star teams before Saban, or did the players make Saban an excellent coach? Was Clemson really good before Dabo? Coaching is so much more than just Sat during the season. It is the other 9 months of off season and the other 6 days during the season. Building and sustaining a program. Hiring compatable staffs.
Dabo loads up on the best DL and QBs. That is the cornerstones of his teams. You don’t have to have 5* at every position. Good team Play makes everyone better. Several Bama ”can’t miss” players have busted in the NFL. Even heisman winners.
Injuries play a big part also. Losing Tua made Ala a good team instead of excellent. An excellent QB last year would have made Tenn a top 10 team easily. May have beaten both Ga and Bama.
 
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#65
#65
SockeyeVol said:
12th in 2017
15th in 2018
16th in 2019
no ranking for 2020 yet.

So it seems like we have had a top-20 roster for the last three years, 2017-2019. Hmmmm....
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We've wasted talent more than anyone in the last 12 years. It's crazy. Can only hope it is over.
 
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#66
#66
Jimmy and Joe's are a huge part of it, but 2016 we were a good coach away from being special. 2019 we had a lot of pieces but we were a QB away from having a great season. We seem to have the coaching staff in place we just need a few more pieces.

There are teams the recruit below us who out perform us and vice versa, you have to have talent and coaching. And as others pointed out they must meet expectations and fit the system.

We've had such bad coaching. Dooley burned recruiting recruiting and wasn't a good coach. Butch might be a worse coach and didn't find players to fit his system. Pruitt had very few players who were talented and fit his system so he has been forced to flip the roster asap. Only time will tell if he is the man, but he seems to do a much better job of identifying talent and getting the right people for his system.

I think star gazing is overrated. If TN turns the corner, than our recruits will get higher ratings. It's part of how it works. The idea we need 15-20 5*'s on the team isn't going to happen and doesn't need to happen for us to turn the corner
 
#67
#67
reeceb73 said:
Jimmy and Joe's are a huge part of it, but 2016 we were a good coach away from being special. 2019 we had a lot of pieces but we were a QB away from having a great season. We seem to have the coaching staff in place we just need a few more pieces.

There are teams the recruit below us who out perform us and vice versa, you have to have talent and coaching. And as others pointed out they must meet expectations and fit the system.

We've had such bad coaching. Dooley burned recruiting recruiting and wasn't a good coach. Butch might be a worse coach and didn't find players to fit his system. Pruitt had very few players who were talented and fit his system so he has been forced to flip the roster asap. Only time will tell if he is the man, but he seems to do a much better job of identifying talent and getting the right people for his system.

I think star gazing is overrated. If TN turns the corner, than our recruits will get higher ratings. It's part of how it works. The idea we need 15-20 5*'s on the team isn't going to happen and doesn't need to happen for us to turn the corner
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Anyone...and I mean anyone, who thinks the idea of us needing...or ever getting 15-20 5*'s...needs to stay the eff in the FF, or just not be on VN to begin with.

Seriously. Over a period of 5 or 6 years, you may have that many...if you're an elite program. We're not there...and while I believe/hope we're heading in that direction, it will be a while/if ever before we get to that point.

We have to win with what the coaches can get. Period. Pretty simple philosophy. Get what you can. Coach them up. Win.
 
#69
#69
TAD said:
Has he played a down yet ?? Ok .. give me others ..
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No, he hasn't. That's because he's a "recruit"...which was the topic of your post...signing highly rated recruits. So when someone points out that we signed a 5* at the most important position in football, you moved the target.
 
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#70
#70
VolFreakJosh said:
Mack Brown is selling the “future of this program” to these kids just like Butch did his first few years here at Tennessee. He pulled a lot of talent but couldn’t develop it worth a damn. Once Brown reaches his peak, all his momentum will start slowing down because let’s face it, he’s always going to be behind Clemson & Dabo.
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Lifetime Vol fan and longtime lurker from Asheville, NC, but I felt the need to respond to this having been in NC and in Texas during the Mack years.

The first big issue in your assumption is comparing Butch to Mack to try and make similar their 2 trajectories. Butch was a nobody from a G5 program(s) when he came here. To think that what him and Mack are selling are the same, is insane. Kids walk into Mack's office and see a national championship trophy and a Hall of Fame placard, not to mention all the ESPN talking heads he has on speed-dial from his time there, and all the guys in the NFL who croon over their former coach. Butch sold a vision, Mack is selling his established brand. Huge difference. Oh and let's not act like Mack flamed out at Texas, he only flamed out when compared to the standard he had built for previous 10 years when he averaged 11 wins per season and played for 2 national championships. His last 3 years at Texas he averaged 8.5 wins and it got him fired. Let that sink in.

2nd, what is the peak? Mack may be the same age as Saban but he's rejuvenated after spending some time away from coaching. He might go to 80, who knows? What I do know is that he has that fanbase revitalized and reinvested like he did in the early 90's when he built a top 5 program. They just opened one of the best practice complexes in the nation, and have completely remodeled their football center, weight room, locker room, etc, to the tune of about $100mil for all of it and did all of this in 1 year! They have done more in facilities upgrades in the last year than the last 20 years combined. This is why Bobby Bowden always felt that UNC was a sleeping giant in football if they ever took it seriously. Deep, deep, DEEP pockets, big time recruiting base, wonderful campus, national brand. It's fail proof with the right leader. Mack knows this and he's leveraging all of it in a very short amount of time. One other tidbit that has gone unnoticed to much of the nation who just want to shrug UNC off as a basketball school, is that their new Chancellor is Kevin Guskiewicz. Many of you are probably saying who? Kevin is a HUGE football guy who has deep roots in the NFL. He was a neuroscientist and sports medicine researcher who started out working with the Steelers in the 90's and found his way as one of the big wigs on the NFL's Head, Neck and Spine Committee as well as the NCAA's safety committee. His entire life's work is football and is a huge proponent of the sport. Needless to say, the guy at the top is no longer a basketball puppet and is very well connected at all levels of the game of football.

It may sound like I'm gushing over UNC and maybe I am because I have always liked Mack, but this is not a flash in the pan. UNC is starting up a machine that is investing into football like it never has before and it is going to make our recruiting A LOT harder in NC where we used to have a lot of success. It's not just us however, that goes for Georgia, Clemson, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Florida, all of them. If you don't hate UNC, it'll be interesting to see how far Mack can take them but recognize that it is happening very, very quickly.
 
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#71
#71
Mack is fighting a NC fan base that barely averages 50K per game and has been dropping in recent years.
 
#72
#72
walkenvol said:
Mack is fighting a NC fan base that barely averages 50K per game and has been dropping in recent years.
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You’re talking about a fluid metric. Fans come and go with winning. If any of you remember college football in the early to mid 90’s, you’ll recall UNC having one of the best fan bases in the country. That doesn’t define what UNC football has going it, I can promise you that. They’re the flagship school in a state of 11mil with top tier talent and an NFL team. There are plenty of football fans around.

Look, I don’t want to keep talking about UNC but just sit back and watch. UNC football is primed for an explosion as long as Mack is in charge.
 
#73
#73
Mack Brown can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. He can recruit, but he isn't a great coach by any means and time will prove that out once again. GBO!!!!
 
#74
#74
Woodlawn VOL said:
Mack Brown can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. He can recruit, but he isn't a great coach by any means and time will prove that out once again. GBO!!!!
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How's that? Wet paper bag wins in the ACC.

Honestly I was surprised when I witnessed Dabo could hold on a conversation without yelling 'yeehaw' or drooling. he's still not
impressive but he sure has some coaches around him.

That's the only team in the ACC.
 
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#75
#75
TAD said:
It seems as though we are going to be just behind the elites like Clemson, Bama , Ga , LSU , Ohio State .. and many others .. the best we can hope for is top 15 team .. reason being all listed above recruit to a level way above us .. IMO .. you have to have elite 5 star talent at at least 4 positions on offense and defense and at certain positions .. TN has 1 player I would consider in that category on defense .. Henry To'To .. you have to be elite at DE , DT , LB and DB .. four 5 stars at each of those .. Vols have 1 .. all teams above have that .. Offense same issue .. you need 5 star QB , RB , WR and 2 OL .. Tn has OL .. but no QB, RB or WR in that status .. teams above do. You can coach up all the 3 and 4 stars all you want but you have to have that Elite player at those positions .. and Vols dont and according to what we have committed.. we are looking at top 15 to 20 team .. and that's our ceiling .. thoughts ?
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You got 4 team's that recruit at a high level each year, Bama, LSU ,Clemson, GA, but three are in the SEC and then throw in the gators and Texas AM, are right behind them whats hurting us is Kentucky SC and NC BACK IN THE 90'S AND EARLY 2000'S we would go in those 3 states and get the top recruits, but we cant do that anymore they are staying home or going to Clesmon .
 
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