Fraud FOUND in Arizona election! Liberals' heads will EXPLODE!

#79
#79
NEO said:
Only calling out bad acts by the opposite party you align with makes a person a hack.

Call it even we are cool.
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Did something recently come out on the Arizona Dems that he failed to mention?
 
#81
#81
AshG said:
Nope. I was just joking around. Then the thread got semi-serious.
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I am of the opinion it's always worth calling out government bad acts. Left right center libertarian or Klingon. If my guy is an idiot and I have to call him out 10 times in a row, so be it. Doesnt make me a hack, makes me honest.
 
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#83
#83
luthervol said:
91.2%
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Imagine if all posters were held to the same standards for the links they share. I admit that I screwed the pooch trying to be silly with this one, but if the left leaning posters were as critical of what other left-leaning posters share, and if the right-leaning posters would expect a higher level of quality and validity from their own I believe the overall quality of discussion would improve.

We can't have one group being chastened for VerifiedNewsWithPulitzerWinningWriters dot com and the other being cheered on for rapid firing from OwnTheJerksWhoDisagreeWithYou dot com.
 
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#84
#84
LouderVol said:
Did something recently come out on the Arizona Dems that he failed to mention?
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He started a troll thread.

He will even admit it.

Find another hill to die on.

I made my comment and stand by it. Either accept it or dont.

Either way, I am moving on.
 
#86
#86
hUTch2002 said:
VW has said it isn’t about Trump but about securing future elections so there’s nothing to ask. Trump absolutely was pressuring Raff…to find what he believe to be the fraud that had occurred. Trump never said anything about trying to make stuff up to win. Septic believes it was implied and I imagine you do too but there’s no way to know. Raff held his ground and we are where we are. Trump won’t be punished for it because there is no “it”. There’s only assumptions of what Trump was thinking and that’s not enough to prove anything.
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That is a crock. Trump would be calling it a valid outcome if he had won. There is no scenario under which Trump could ever lose an election without completely attributing the defeat to fraud, or to his opponent cheating. How do we know this? Because Trump even accused the 2016 Ted Cruz Campaign of cheating to win the Iowa Caucuses - also without ever offering any proof. Prior to both of the Presidential General Elections in which he has run, Trump signaled his intentions to blame any potential defeat on fraud well ahead of time.

To say that "it isn't about Trump" is ridiculous. It is about Trump's attempts to change the outcome. Trump told Raffensperger "to find" the votes he needed to win. Trump didn't just say "find the fraud" and leave it at that. No. Trump had a very specific number of votes in mind which needed to be impacted... and that number just so happened to be what he needed to win the state of Georgia.

That is at the heart of this whole thing: Trump exerting his considerable political influence among Republicans in Georgia and Arizona, to try and reverse the outcome of an election which he had lost.
 
#87
#87
AshG said:
Imagine if all posters were held to the same standards for the links they share. I admit that I screwed the pooch trying to be silly with this one, but if the left leaning posters were as critical of what other left-leaning posters share, and if the right-leaning posters would expect a higher level of quality and validity from their own I believe the overall quality of discussion would improve.

We can't have one group being chastened for VerifiedNewsWithPulitzerWinningWriters dot com and the other being cheered on for rapid firing from OwnTheJerksWhoDisagreeWithYou dot com.
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Left leaning posters? Really?! You don’t really consider yourself to be in the “middle”?
 
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#88
#88
landscapingvol said:
Left leaning posters? Really?! You don’t really consider yourself to be in the “middle”?
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It depends on the lens by which you're judging positions. The Overton Window here is also much further right than the general population of the country.

If you want to consider me to be a Leftist, you'll find whatever proof you need to do so and use whatever frame of reference you choose to back it up. Outside of this board, I tend to be the more right leaning of most of the people I know. Examining the academic definitions, I am a right moderate.

Call me what you will. I know who I am.
 
#90
#90
There was fraud in this election as there is fraud in every election. The stakes are too big for there not to be. Trump lost because his ground game sucked and he encouraged his base to avoid early voting. Brilliant. If you can’t win at fraud, you’re not going to win elections.
 
#91
#91
BowlBrother85 said:
That is a crock. Trump would be calling it a valid outcome if he had won. There is no scenario under which Trump could ever lose an election without completely attributing the defeat to fraud, or to his opponent cheating. How do we know this? Because Trump even accused the 2016 Ted Cruz Campaign of cheating to win the Iowa Caucuses - also without ever offering any proof. Prior to both of the Presidential General Elections in which he has run, Trump signaled his intentions to blame any potential defeat on fraud well ahead of time.

To say that "it isn't about Trump" is ridiculous. It is about Trump's attempts to change the outcome. Trump told Raffensperger "to find" the votes he needed to win. Trump didn't just say "find the fraud" and leave it at that. No. Trump had a very specific number of votes in mind which needed to be impacted... and that number just so happened to be what he needed to win the state of Georgia.

That is at the heart of this whole thing: Trump exerting his considerable political influence among Republicans in Georgia and Arizona, to try and reverse the outcome of an election which he had lost.
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Now you’re confusing points to try and solidly 2 completely different arguments. I’ll separate them into paragraphs for you.

In regards to the AZ audits, you asked if I had asked VW about letting go the fact that Trump isn’t POTUd and I said no because he’s already stated his desired outcome. Now you’re trying to lump that comment back in with Trump’s discussion with Raff when those are separate issues.

Regarding Trump’s GA loss…of course he would be calling it valid had he won just like the Dems would be crying fraud had Biden lost. Duh! That doesn’t automatically mean that Trump doesn’t believe there was truly fraud as I don’t think he believe anyone is capable of beating him given his massive ego. Again, I’ve heard the whole conversation and you’re taking parts out of context. No doubt he was pressuring Raff but the entire thing was about fraud. Raff held his ground and said it didn’t happen and then audits occurred to check. End of story.
 
#92
#92
BowlBrother85 said:
@hUTch2002 thinks you should let it go. The election is long over. LOL.
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Your Trump obsession is what needs to be let go. Trying to make sure elections are secure makes sense to me. I don’t care what your deal is with Trump, both sides of the aisle had issues with the voting machines that were used before the election. It doesn’t hurt to make sure we have future elections secured properly.
 
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#93
#93
AshG said:
It depends on the lens by which you're judging positions. The Overton Window here is also much further right than the general population of the country.

If you want to consider me to be a Leftist, you'll find whatever proof you need to do so and use whatever frame of reference you choose to back it up. Outside of this board, I tend to be the more right leaning of most of the people I know. Examining the academic definitions, I am a right moderate.

Call me what you will. I know who I am.
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people you know...like in academia? lol
 
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#94
#94
BowlBrother85 said:
@hUTch2002 thinks you should let it go. The election is long over. LOL.
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I have told you before and I will say it again. This is not about Trump. It's about free and fair elections. Trump just ignited the movement of millions of Americans who are sick and tired of the games that are played out in politics every year. We are sick and tired of the deep state. We are tired of the biased media that clearly reports everything with a left leaning agenda. We are the group of people that for years have been to busy with raising our families, running our business and doing our jobs to get involved in politics. We have always just trusted others to do that for us and just assumed that they would look out for the best interests of the people that they are supposed to represent. Instead it seems so many in politics are in it just to line their pockets.
We have finally figured out that its time to get involved. It's time to quit complaining about the way things are done and do something about it by getting involved at a local level. I will support the candidates who will honestly represent their constituents and perform on the promises they make to make America a better country. At the end of the day, none of what we are doing to make these changes will matter if we don't have free and fair elections. That is where it all starts. This is why I am so adamant on getting more states to do a full forensic audit just like what is being done in Arizona.
 
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#95
#95
hUTch2002 said:
Regarding Trump’s GA loss…of course he would be calling it valid had he won just like the Dems would be crying fraud had Biden lost. Duh!
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From James Comey's letter to Russian meddling on social media, Hillary Clinton made a lot of excuses for losing the 2016 presidential election. She also accused the 2016 Trump Campaign of coordinating their efforts with Russian agents in their social media attacks against her, but she never said that her loss was the result of fraud. No democratic party nominee for president, including Al Gore, has ever blamed their losing a presidential general election on fraudulent activity. To the contrary, Hillary Clinton gave a gracious concession speech the day after the 2016 presidential election, in which she acknowledged Trump's victory and congratulated him. Those are two things which Trump has still never done for Biden. Had Biden lost, there is nothing to indicate that he wouldn't have conceded defeat and moved on. For what it's worth, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton both attended Donald Trump's inauguration on January 20, 2017.

hUTch2002 said:
No doubt he was pressuring Raff but the entire thing was about fraud.
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This is a brazen lie. The entire thing wasn't about fraud. Trump cited a very specific number of votes in his conversation with Brad Raffensperger, and he didn't just pull some random number out of his butt either. The number of votes Trump said that he wanted Raffensperger "to find" was 11,780... which was what he needed to win Georgia. If the "entire thing" had been about uncovering fraud, Trump would not have been so specific about how many votes he wanted to be impacted. At least to some extent, it was also about Trump attempting to overturn the outcome in Georgia, and he was applying pressure to a state-level official, Brad Raffensperger, in order to achieve that end.

hUTch2002 said:
Again, I’ve heard the whole conversation and you’re taking parts out of context.
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I have heard the entire conversation as well. It was a very inappropriate call for the President of the United States to make. Nothing has been taken out of context. You might have an argument to make if Trump hadn't been so specific with Raffensperger concerning the number of votes he needed him "to find"... and if that number (11,780) wasn't also Biden's margin of victory plus one.
 
#97
#97
BowlBrother85 said:
This is a brazen lie. The entire thing wasn't about fraud. Trump cited a very specific number of votes in his conversation with Brad Raffensperger, and he didn't just pull some random number out of his butt either. The number of votes Trump said that he wanted Raffensperger "to find" was 11,780... which was what he needed to win Georgia. If the "entire thing" had been about uncovering fraud, Trump would not have been so specific about how many votes he wanted to be impacted. At least to some extent, it was also about Trump attempting to overturn the outcome in Georgia, and he was applying pressure to a state-level official, Brad Raffensperger, in order to achieve that end.
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You are definitely taking this out of context. Trump was saying he knows that if you count legal votes in GA he won by a lot. He was saying we don't even have to talk about Dominion Machines or any of the major stuff that absolutely should be exposed. Just look into a few of the small areas and give us what is rightfully ours and we will shut up about all of the other areas. Georgia was probably one of the worst run elections in a very long time. Brad's own election inspector that he hired documented all of the bad things that were happening in Fulton County and yet Brad said this was a perfectly run election. There are 168,000 ballots in Cobb County that are missing chain of custody.
 
#99
#99
hUTch2002 said:
Your Trump obsession is what needs to be let go. Trying to make sure elections are secure makes sense to me. I don’t care what your deal is with Trump, both sides of the aisle had issues with the voting machines that were used before the election. It doesn’t hurt to make sure we have future elections secured properly.
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It's already been done twice. Republicans in Arizona just didn't like the findings... so now, they are giving the "Cyber Ninjas" a try.

In February, there were audits of the tabulation equipment's software and hardware performed by two independent Voting System Laboratories: Pro V&V and SLI Compliance. Those two firms were hired to:

  • Analyze election equipment software and hardware's hacking vulnerability
  • Verify that no malicious malware was installed
  • Test that tabulators were not sending or receiving information over the internet
  • Confirm that no vote switching occurred
As an added measure of transparency, a reputable CPA firm, Berry Dunn, was hired to review county contracts with Dominion Voting Services and verify that the county leased the tabulation equipment according to state and county procurement regulations.

* Also, I love how anyone critical of Trump is "obsessed" with him... but his apologists who post hourly updates on the Cyber Ninjas audit are just interested in preserving our democracy (paraphrasing, of course).
 
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#100
#100
AshG said:
If others can post like this, I figured I could have some fun too. :) Random full word capitalizations, unverifiable claims, pay walls.

Damnit, I forgot to insult large groups of people and make veiled threats about the future of our country. I'll try harder next time.
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NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. There's no fun to be had here. You must be anal retentive, combative, indignant and defensive at all times. Please do not upset the apple cart.
 
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