Fraudulent Christians

[NurseGoodVol]

It's probably because of the often evil shat that happens in churches which is often covered up. It's not just the Catholic Church folks. People don't trust churches bc they cover up bad news way too often.

It's not the corruption of the outside world thats the problem. It's the corruption within. And it's a problem in every sect of religion.

It’s why I peaced out of my church at 16. I saw hypocrisy. I wasn’t quiet about it either when I had a face to face with the preacher and his wife. I was done with that church. I respected my parents and how they raised me but I couldn’t condone what I saw. I’ll never be done with God and he’s not done with me either, till my body dies.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

This is nothing new. These phases come and go. Unfortunate as it is. You arent the special boy you think you are, you're a sinner, same as the rest of us but there is a better way forward and its not a con.

Amen

 

[NEO]

We all suck.

I suck.

I probably suck worse than some unsaved people.

Anyone who thinks they dont suck because they are saved seriously might not be saved.

We were born sucky and we will die sucky.

All you can try to do is suck less than your human nature wants to and realize God forgives you for your suckiness and took your suckiness upon him so you would not be held accountable for how much you suck when you die.

To sum this up, the only difference between a true Christian and someone else is the true Christian realizes they suck and are lost with Jesus.

Take this years TN team and times it time a billion. That is how much we all suck.

 

[Orangeslice13]

We all suck.

I suck.

I probably suck worse than some unsaved people.

Anyone who thinks they dont suck because they are saved seriously might not be saved.

We were born sucky and we will die sucky.

All you can try to do is suck less than your human nature wants to and realize God forgives you for your suckiness and took your suckiness upon him so you would not be held accountable for how much you suck when you die.

To sum this up, the only difference between a true Christian and someone else is the true Christian realizes they suck and are lost with Jesus.

Take this years TN team and times it time a billion. That is how much we all suck.

Saul of Tarsus calls himself “****“. The Bible translated it as “Dung” in most versions but the actual word is “****”. If the Pharisee of Pharisees is aware that his behavior isn’t “good enough” then it doesn’t seem like there’s anyone who can earn their way....we are all ****, regardless of what we may think of ourselves

 

[Septic]

I’m not recalling where God asked me to kill anyone.
Mohammad... different story.

Yet.

 

[volgr]

You keep bashing them in very Christlike fashion but you're completely missing the point. I'm not talking about the quality of their message. I'm showing you that adapting the message isn't what's killing churches. You got it backwards. The adaptation is a reaction to the diminishing reach of the old views and manner of worship.

The adaptation hasnt stopped the bleeding. It just moved mostly younger people over to the doughnuts and coffee band jam while the gray hairs largely stayed in traditional and die off.

Compounding the problem, other young people with kids who may prefer traditional have to weigh that against wanting to have vibrant childrens/youth programs which is becoming harder to find in traditional churches with a much older makeup.

The church no longer holds the center of the communal cultural field and has instead, through reactionary cultural adaptation and inside scandal, worked itself into a corner.

 

[LouderVol]

Most people nowadays realize religion is just a con.

Depending on what you mean by a con but pretty much any institution can/should be defined as a con. The bigger the institution the bigger the con.

People are buying into the self serving cons now instead of the one(s) that called for people to better themselves.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Is there any other entity that is attacked more for being hypocritical than the Christian Church? Where did this perception come from that Christians were different than the rest of the human population and were immune to hypocrisy?

This, much like the anti-police brigade, it comes from stories or bad experiences with a particular church or Christian, that gets morphed into "hell all these Christians are lying hypocrites".
Most logical people know how the human race actually is, not just subsets of groups

 

[rjd970]

This, much like the anti-police brigade, it comes from stories or bad experiences with a particular church or Christian, that gets morphed into "hell all these Christians are lying hypocrites".
Most logical people know how the human race actually is, not just subsets of groups

Religion is different IMO. It’s asking for money and time now, and only promises the ultimate reward for you AFTER you die. Furthermore, it’s framed as the single most important thing in life.

Is there any other group that sells that? I would even venture to say if it weren’t for generational traditions and indoctrination from a young age such a scheme couldn’t even exist.

I always wondered if the entire human race woke up tomorrow with a collective loss of all memory....going all the way back to square one with communication, food, shelter, protection, etc....how far down on the importance scale it would be that we need to know Jesus rose from the dead or Muhammad ascended to heaven on a winged horse.

 

[volgr]

Religion is different IMO. It’s asking for money and time now, and only promises the ultimate reward for you AFTER you die. Furthermore, it’s framed as the single most important thing in life.

Is there any other group that sells that? I would even venture to say if it weren’t for generational traditions and indoctrination from a young age such a scheme couldn’t even exist.

I always wondered if the entire human race woke up tomorrow with a collective loss of all memory....going all the way back to square one with communication, food, shelter, protection, etc....how far down on the importance scale it would be that we need to know Jesus rose from the dead or Muhammad ascended to heaven on a winged horse.

Have you read the Bible? Have you tried to live according to the teachings of Jesus?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Depending on what you mean by a con but pretty much any institution can/should be defined as a con. The bigger the institution the bigger the con.

People are buying into the self serving cons now instead of the one(s) that called for people to better themselves.

IMO religion (from the POV of the church, synagogue, mosque, whatever) only exists to control people and take their money.

From the POV of the believer, most people are religious because they were brought up that way by their parents. At the end of the day religion provides an outlet for people to socialize, feel like they are part of something important, and provide stability to a question that no one truly knows: What happens when we die?

 

[volgr]

This, much like the anti-police brigade, it comes from stories or bad experiences with a particular church or Christian, that gets morphed into "hell all these Christians are lying hypocrites".
Most logical people know how the human race actually is, not just subsets of groups

"They're hypocrites", is just a lazy and convenient excuse people tell themselves to help try and ease the burden of conviction they feel.

 

[rjd970]

Have you read the Bible? Have you tried to live according to the teachings of Jesus?

Yes.

 

[rjd970]

"They're hypocrites", is just a lazy and convenient excuse people tell themselves to help try and ease the burden of conviction they feel.

That’s a pretty broad brush founded on an assumption you can’t possibly know is true.

 

[volgr]

IMO religion (from the POV of the church, synagogue, mosque, whatever) only exists to control people and take their money.

From the POV of the believer, most people are religious because they were brought up that way by their parents. At the end of the day religion provides an outlet for people to socialize, feel like they are part of something important, and provide stability to a question that no one truly knows: What happens when we die?

The christian religion has done more to free people than any other worldly entity. When Christianity is thriving in a culture, usually, so too is freedom.

 

[volgr]

Yes.

And through your experience you concluded that religion is about time and money? Is it any wonder you didnt find it to be the single most important thing in your life?

 

[rjd970]

And through that your experience was, religion is about time and money? Is it any wonder you didnt find it to be the single most important thing in your life?

At the end of the day it can’t exist without time and money. That is true for just about anything, but I can’t think of a single thing that costs my time and treasure that pays off to me after I’m dead. There is community belonging, a sense of family, there is even a sense of happiness and spiritual experience. Not denying any of that. But let’s be honest, the end promise of it all happens after death.

I can get community belonging, a sense of family, support group, and spiritual experience elsewhere. Knowing Jesus is my savior isn’t needed nor warranted.

 

[n_huffhines]

The adaptation hasnt stopped the bleeding. It just moved mostly younger people over to the doughnuts and coffee band jam while the gray hairs largely stayed in traditional and die off.

Compounding the problem, other young people with kids who may prefer traditional have to weigh that against wanting to have vibrant childrens/youth programs which is becoming harder to find in traditional churches with a much older makeup.

The church no longer holds the center of the communal cultural field and has instead, through reactionary cultural adaptation and inside scandal, worked itself into a corner.

How do you not realize this means adaptation stopped the bleeding?

 

[LouderVol]

Religion is different IMO. It’s asking for money and time now, and only promises the ultimate reward for you AFTER you die. Furthermore, it’s framed as the single most important thing in life.

Is there any other group that sells that? I would even venture to say if it weren’t for generational traditions and indoctrination from a young age such a scheme couldn’t even exist.

I always wondered if the entire human race woke up tomorrow with a collective loss of all memory....going all the way back to square one with communication, food, shelter, protection, etc....how far down on the importance scale it would be that we need to know Jesus rose from the dead or Muhammad ascended to heaven on a winged horse.

The government.

SS takes your entire life with a vague promise you might get something back later.

And I would agree without indoctrination it wouldnt exist.

 

[LouderVol]

IMO religion (from the POV of the church, synagogue, mosque, whatever) only exists to control people and take their money.

From the POV of the believer, most people are religious because they were brought up that way by their parents. At the end of the day religion provides an outlet for people to socialize, feel like they are part of something important, and provide stability to a question that no one truly knows: What happens when we die?

I would say many exist in their current form similar to what you said. But that's not how/why many were started. Again similar to pretty much any institution.

I think it should also help with how you live. Really, imo, that should be the main thing one gets from "church".

 

[NurseGoodVol]

We all suck.

I suck.

I probably suck worse than some unsaved people.

Anyone who thinks they dont suck because they are saved seriously might not be saved.

We were born sucky and we will die sucky.

All you can try to do is suck less than your human nature wants to and realize God forgives you for your suckiness and took your suckiness upon him so you would not be held accountable for how much you suck when you die.

To sum this up, the only difference between a true Christian and someone else is the true Christian realizes they suck and are lost with Jesus.

Take this years TN team and times it time a billion. That is how much we all suck.

Well, when we were given our own minds, that’s where the trouble started... lol. I get it.

 

[rjd970]

The government.

SS takes your entire life with a vague promise you might get something back later.

And I would agree without indoctrination it wouldnt exist.

Negative, not even the government is promising your reward AFTER death. They just aren’t promising anything.

 

[LouderVol]

Negative, not even the government is promising your reward AFTER death. They just aren’t promising anything.

Obviously there are churches that do PROMISE results after death. But I havent experienced that myself. And I am more well traveled than most.

It's usually "you have to do X, Y, Z to get into heaven". -see previous arguments about the bible.

And there is no promise you get SS. Probably any number of taxes and government programs that dont help the people.

I guess I dont see as much of a distinction between a pre/post death promises.

 

[rjd970]

Obviously there are churches that do PROMISE results after death. But I havent experienced that myself. And I am more well traveled than most.

It's usually "you have to do X, Y, Z to get into heaven". -see previous arguments about the bible.

And there is no promise you get SS. Probably any number of taxes and government programs that dont help the people.

I guess I dont see as much of a distinction between a pre/post death promises.

Clearly I'm not understanding something. Every...let me repeat...EVERY...flavor of Christianity, Islam, and Judiasm promises eternal paradise of some kind, after death. It has nothing to do with Churches. It's doctrine. Like you said, you just have to follow x, y, and z.

Are you saying there are Christian churches or denominations in your travels where being saved isn't a doctrinal precept?

 

[Wireless1]

IMO religion (from the POV of the church, synagogue, mosque, whatever) only exists to control people and take their money.

From the POV of the believer, most people are religious because they were brought up that way by their parents. At the end of the day religion provides an outlet for people to socialize, feel like they are part of something important, and provide stability to a question that no one truly knows: What happens when we die?

From a human perspective your post makes al the sense in the world and for many it's true. And you are correct that if your parents are believers they probably raised you to recognize your spirit. By leaving out the spiritual part which is the most important because your spirit it what will live forever not this flawed shell walking the earth, it's easy to see religion as a scam.