Freeze and Dabo negative religious recruit UT

It all boils down to one word: faith. Where some see coincidence, others see God. Where some see us sitting on a little ball hurling through infinite space, others see an oasis created to house God's creations. Where some see war and devastation, others see the opportunity for acts of great compassion and kindness that are demonstrations of God's glorious love and desire for us. I choose faith and I choose to live my life for the glory of God. Faith is optional or else it doesn't mean anything. God does not force us to worship him because how does forced worship glorify Him. Each person must come to faith in their own way and in their own time. Closing off your mind and your heart will only keep you from embracing the love that God poured out willingly for each of us. Choosing to follow God has opened my life to innumerable blessings that I can never be thankful enough for. Without the knowledge of God's love for me there are times that would probably have crushed me. Each person can choose as they wish but I choose God.
 
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See my post above as it addresses the same question...
Although I will add that I think vicarious redemption by human sacrifice (aka the very basis of Christianity, that Jesus died to save us from our sins) is actually quite disgusting and immoral. I mean human sacrifice is generally looked at with tremendous disdain in the day and age. It's barbaric.

Good point; I would argue that it's even worse than that. It's catastrophic on a cosmic scale. It wasn't just a man who died that day ... it was God Himself.

Fortunately, Paul informs us in Ephesians 1 & 2 that the same "mighty power" that raised Jesus from the dead also raises up those of us who were dead in our sins to new life when we are united to Christ by faith.

Needless to say, pretty heavy stuff.
 
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IMHO, it takes more faith to be an atheist than to believe that there is a supreme being, who created everything that we see and know. How everything works so intricately together, from life in the universe to how the earth is so precisely positioned in relation to the sun to the complexity of the human body...I just can't see any other way than a supreme being, God, who did it. There's way too much going on that it can all just happen by chance. It would be one of those obsurd, astronomical numbers that there is no way to wrap your head around the meaning of the number.
The 'argument from design' has been debated for centuries. Check out David Hume's rebuttals on the subject. Also check out Neil DeGrasse Tyson's lecture on how intelligent design is really stupid design. Yes the universe is incredibly complex, yet the nature of the universe does not indicate that it was created by a benevolent creator who had us in mind.

Also, I wouldn't say that I have faith in atheism or faith in science. I just accept them as the most reasonable position to take based upon the available evidence, and I'm willing to change my mind when new information comes along. That's where I think freethinkers differ from the religious. Freethinkers tend to accept the conclusion that the evidence leads us to, where as religion is basically set in stone and is unable to change.
 
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It all boils down to one word: faith. Where some see coincidence, others see God. Where some see us sitting on a little ball hurling through infinite space, others see an oasis created to house God's creations. Where some see war and devastation, others see the opportunity for acts of great compassion and kindness that are demonstrations of God's glorious love and desire for us. I choose faith and I choose to live my life for the glory of God. Faith is optional or else it doesn't mean anything. God does not force us to worship him because how does forced worship glorify Him. Each person must come to faith in their own way and in their own time. Closing off your mind and your heart will only keep you from embracing the love that God poured out willingly for each of us. Choosing to follow God has opened my life to innumerable blessings that I can never be thankful enough for. Without the knowledge of God's love for me there are times that would probably have crushed me. Each person can choose as they wish but I choose God.

Beautiful
 
Also check out Neil DeGrasse Tyson's lecture on how intelligent design is really stupid design. Yes the universe is incredibly complex, yet the nature of the universe does not indicate that it was created by a benevolent creator who had us in mind.

The one where he basically said he refutes intelligent (or benevolent) design because there are so many things out in the world to kill us?

My only problem with that line of thinking comes when you get people who refute God on the basis that they can't believe in a deity that would support the suffering of so many beings and not do anything about it...ignoring completely the overwhelming positives in the world. It paints God to be some heartless being who only made everything to torture humanity. Maybe I'm remembering what Tyson said wrong, but it reminded me of discussions I've heard others have.
 
Good point; I would argue that it's even worse than that. It's catastrophic on a cosmic scale. It wasn't just a man who died that day ... it was God Himself.

Fortunately, Paul informs us in Ephesians 1 & 2 that the same "mighty power" that raised Jesus from the dead also raises up those of us who were dead in our sins to new life when we are united to Christ by faith.

Needless to say, pretty heavy stuff.
Wait what? You said good point but then didn't agree with me. I do love debating this heavy stuff since I think you can learn a lot from having a civil argument with people you disagree with.
 
The one where he basically said he refutes intelligent (or benevolent) design because there are so many things out in the world to kill us?

My only problem with that line of thinking comes when you get people who refute God on the basis that they can't believe in a deity that would support the suffering of so many beings and not do anything about it...ignoring completely the overwhelming positives in the world. It paints God to be some heartless being who only made everything to torture humanity. Maybe I'm remembering what Tyson said wrong, but it reminded me of discussions I've heard others have.
I've said that many things in the universe and the Earth are great, and I think Tyson would agree with me. But in my eyes there is just as much if not more stuff that's horrible rather than good. Now why would a perfect supreme being create an imperfect universe full of chaos and destruction? Why would he put humans (and other lifeforms) through such immense struggles if he wasn't either inept, cruel or just flat out lazy? Yes, I think that if the God described by the Bible exists, then he is a psychopathic, power-hungry lunatic.

See I think the universe is indifferent, neither benevolent nor cruel. It just is what it is.
 
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Sure is odd that 2% of your genome comes from our Neanderthal ancestors. Your good book simply cannot account nor refute this fact. The theory of evolution has more truth, evidence as close to empirical as one can get. The only counterpoint any religion offers up is "because we have faith". As science becomes all the more evidentiary, as people become more self aware, religion will become an afterthought. Two cents.

Jesus will come back again, and God will destroy this world with fire and brimstone if and when religion becomes an afterthought, IMHO. Then, we will all face judgement, and everyone will bow to Jesus and confess Him as Lord.

Think about this for just a minute...if things are as you say they are and God does not exist, when we die, then there is no afterlife. What happens? Man continues procreating and this world continues as is with evil and wickedness. Will this world continue on for eternity, for an infinite amount of time? If so, why? There has to be a reason we are here...a goal to reach towards. Isn't that how we are in our daily lives...reaching for higher goals? Something we push towards?

Now, what if God is real? What if all the things he said in the Bible through writers that were inspired by His Spirit are all true? What if heaven and hell are real, and judgement will be real? What if our higher goal and why we were put on this earth is to find our way back to our creator and having fellowship with Him in heaven after judgement, if we have obeyed His commands? Do you want to be on the other end of that when Jesus comes again and judgement occurs to realize that hell is very real, and you will spend eternity in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels and all who haven't obeyed the God's commands? By faith I believe it is all real, and I hope and pray I'm living a life of service to Him that pleases Him, because I don't want to spend eternity anywhere else than with my Lord. I pray one day you find your faith in our good Lord who blesses us abundantly daily, and gives us every chance to find our way back to Him.
 
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It all boils down to one word: faith. Where some see coincidence, others see God. Where some see us sitting on a little ball hurling through infinite space, others see an oasis created to house God's creations. Where some see war and devastation, others see the opportunity for acts of great compassion and kindness that are demonstrations of God's glorious love and desire for us. I choose faith and I choose to live my life for the glory of God. Faith is optional or else it doesn't mean anything. God does not force us to worship him because how does forced worship glorify Him. Each person must come to faith in their own way and in their own time. Closing off your mind and your heart will only keep you from embracing the love that God poured out willingly for each of us. Choosing to follow God has opened my life to innumerable blessings that I can never be thankful enough for. Without the knowledge of God's love for me there are times that would probably have crushed me. Each person can choose as they wish but I choose God.

Very well said! Amen!
 
The fact that we are the only being on this Earth that can ponder a concept as abstract as faith, should tell us something. I once was full of doubt, but something personal and beyond the seen, happened to me. I dont have all the answers, but I don't need them. Man from the beginning has rejected God. We don't want a higher power judging us, we want to be the gods that say what is good and what is evil. It has always been thus. Arguing about it is an exercise in futility. When a person is drawn to Christ by the Father, then they will listen with a open heart. I was the same way. As someone earlier said...I choose to believe.
 
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Jesus will come back again, and God will destroy this world with fire and brimstone if and when religion becomes an afterthought, IMHO. Then, we will all face judgement, and everyone will bow to Jesus and confess Him as Lord.

Think about this for just a minute...if things are as you say they are and God does not exist, when we die, then there is no afterlife. What happens? Man continues procreating and this world continues as is with evil and wickedness. Will this world continue on for eternity, for an infinite amount of time? If so, why? There has to be a reason we are here...a goal to reach towards. Isn't that how we are in our daily lives...reaching for higher goals? Something we push towards?

Now, what if God is real? What if all the things he said in the Bible through writers that were inspired by His Spirit are all true? What if heaven and hell are real, and judgement will be real? What if our higher goal and why we were put on this earth is to find our way back to our creator and having fellowship with Him in heaven after judgement, if we have obeyed His commands? Do you want to be on the other end of that when Jesus comes again and judgement occurs to realize that hell is very real, and you will spend eternity in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels and all who haven't obeyed the God's commands? By faith I believe it is all real, and I hope and pray I'm living a life of service to Him that pleases Him, because I don't want to spend eternity anywhere else than with my Lord. I pray one day you find your faith in our good Lord who blesses us abundantly daily, and gives us every chance to find our way back to Him.
Isn't that an awful thought though? What kind of a loving god would destroy any planet with fire and brimstone and then send people to an infinite punishment for finite crimes? Also, you seem so sure but can you prove any of what you said.

Think about this for a minute... What if there is no purpose to life except for the purpose we choose to give it? A bit of a scary thought, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Religion has survived and thrived for so long because it brings people comfort and provides a method in which they can live forever.

Think about this as well... What if you are believing in and following the wrong god.

Pascal's wager is a con. As Hitchens used to say, "We are born sick and then commanded on threat of eternal torture to be well". I just don't find god as loving and forgiving as a lot of people do.
 
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Isn't that an awful thought though? What kind of a loving god would destroy any planet with fire and brimstone and then send people to an infinite punishment for finite crimes?

Think about this for a minute... What if there is no purpose to life except for the purpose we choose to give it? A bit of a scary thought, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Religion has survived and thrived for so long because it brings people comfort and provides a method in which they can live forever.

Think about this as well... What if you are believing in and following the wrong god.

Pascal's wager is a con. As Hitchens used to say, "We are born sick and then commanded on threat of eternal torture to be well". I just don't find god as loving and forgiving as a lot of people do.

God is the opposite of sin. He is perfect and cannot abide sin. Our sins seperate us from God. God doesn't want anyone to suffer in hell for eternity. He wants us all to be reunited with Him in heaven. However, we cannot because we are sinful creatures. That is why Jesus was sent to the Earth. He lived a blameless sinless life. He was then beaten, tortured, tormented, and executed. He was sacrificed so that all who have faith in Him and seek to live as he lived may be redeemed to the Father. God doesn't punish us with eternal damnation. We punish ourselves by not placing our faith in God and Jesus. Our actions or inactions are what damn us. Not God.
 
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Hi guys, I'm a lurker and barely ever post, but this is a topic I care a lot about so I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

There are a lot of good reasons to believe in God, and I've never heard a plausible alternative explanation for these reasons:

1) The universe exists. Why is there something, rather than nothing at all?

2) The universe is fine tuned. Why does life exist at all if the constants required for it are infinitesimally precise? How did the universe get this way if the time required for such constants to have arrived by chance is much much much larger than the estimated age of the universe?

3) Objective moral values exist. If God does not exist, how can there be such thing as right and wrong? How could there good and evil? Wouldn't everything be subjective - based on culture, upbringing, and societal norms?

4) There is historical evidence for the resurrection of Christ. Why was the tomb empty? If the disciples were lying, what did they have to gain?

Those are good reasons to believe that God exists, but tbh they don't do it for me. I believe in God because I'm lucky enough to know Him.

When people say God doesn't exist, it's as if they're saying my mom doesn't exist. What do you mean my mom doesn't exist?! I know her, she loves me, cares for me, provides for me, protects me! Besides, where do you think I came from?

Hope I'm not speaking out of turn... Just hoping to see some orange up there! Lol kudos to everyone for being respectful; I almost can't believe it.
 
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Isn't that an awful thought though? What kind of a loving god would destroy any planet with fire and brimstone and then send people to an infinite punishment for finite crimes? Also, you seem so sure but can you prove any of what you said.

Think about this for a minute... What if there is no purpose to life except for the purpose we choose to give it? A bit of a scary thought, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Religion has survived and thrived for so long because it brings people comfort and provides a method in which they can live forever.

Think about this as well... What if you are believing in and following the wrong god.

Pascal's wager is a con. As Hitchens used to say, "We are born sick and then commanded on threat of eternal torture to be well". I just don't find god as loving and forgiving as a lot of people do.

What glichtenwalter said is part of my response, as I agree with his comments.

Also, when God's primary purpose has always been for us to be in fellowship with Him and worship Him, because He is worthy, this planet means nothing. It is only a means by which we live on to serve the Lord and hopefully live a faithful life of service to Him that is pleasing, and gives us a home in heaven with Him on judgement day. Heaven is what is most important to Him and who will be there, not this planet. He wants us with Him, but gave commands we must follow to get there. Read the Old Testament...Israel was His own special people...a nation He promised Abraham would come from his seed. He told Israel when He made a covenant with them through Moses that if they obeyed Him, they would have all these blessings. However, He also told them the curses that would come on them, if they disobeyed Him. When you read what happened, the curses occurred just as He said, because they disobeyed Him. He forgave them over and over, when they would turn back to Him, because He desperately wanted them to be His special people. However, sin, wickedness, and idolatry consumed them, and God turned His back on them.

The same is true for us living under the New Testament of Jesus Christ...God yearns for us to be His people, but He has commands that must be followed. If you don't follow His commands, then you won't reap the reward of heaven. Instead, the curse for all the disobedient is hell. Without a doubt, God is a loving, merciful, and just God, but He will enforce the curses just as easily as the blessings, if one chooses disobedience over obedience, just as the children of Israel did.

I know that there are times that I just don't have the exact answer...I search the Scriptures for it. It says everything we need is there pertaining to life and godliness:

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. - 2 Peter 1:3-4

And there are times that the following verses ring very true:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. - Isaiah 55:8-9

This scripture in Isaiah 55 tells us there are many things we just can't explain...I believe a lot of the things we have been discussing here can fit into that. We can discuss in circles and until we are blue in the face, but ultimately it all comes back to one word...faith.
 
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Referendum on the existence of God.

My original intent was just to pass along that religion was being used against the Vols in recruiting.

I don't want anything used against the Vols.
I want us to win every recruiting battle...not possible, of course.
I guess UT probably uses what it can to negatively recruit against other schools.
But, in my mind, I would like to think that we don't really need to negatively recruit because of all of the great things that we have to offer.
 
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Don't need faith anymore I met God on a fall night at church in 1962 53 yrs later still my best friend talk to him every day hear his voice feel his touch have his spirit in me he is more real than you are I hope you meet God before it is to late when his breath leaves your body the body dies and as a tree fall so shall it lye don't sin away the day of grace
 
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Don't need faith anymore I met God on a fall night at church in 1962 53 yrs later still my best friend talk to him every day hear his voice feel his touch have his spirit in me he is more real than you are I hope you meet God before it is to late when his breath leaves your body the body dies and as a tree fall so shall it lye don't sin away the day of grace

I like this post but are you TerryPedigo's mom?
 
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Referendum on the existence of God.

My original intent was just to pass along that religion was being used against the Vols in recruiting.

I don't want anything used against the Vols.
I want us to win every recruiting battle...not possible, of course.
I guess UT probably uses what it can to negatively recruit against other schools.
But, in my mind, I would like to think that we don't really need to negatively recruit because of all of the great things that we have to offer.

Have heard a lot of recruits say that UT sells UT. CBJ just says why it's great to be a VFL and family and if it fits then come and compete.
 
Isn't that an awful thought though? What kind of a loving god would destroy any planet with fire and brimstone and then send people to an infinite punishment for finite crimes? Also, you seem so sure but can you prove any of what you said.

Think about this for a minute... What if there is no purpose to life except for the purpose we choose to give it? A bit of a scary thought, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Religion has survived and thrived for so long because it brings people comfort and provides a method in which they can live forever.

Think about this as well... What if you are believing in and following the wrong god.

Pascal's wager is a con. As Hitchens used to say, "We are born sick and then commanded on threat of eternal torture to be well". I just don't find god as loving and forgiving as a lot of people do.

Pascals wager is a con? Why? If you think about it, the wager is accurate. No offence but Hitchens was nothing more than a wordsmith. A person who parlayed his years of studying the dictionary to berating and belittling those who believed in something he truly could not understand.
 
Pascals wager is a con? Why? If you think about it, the wager is accurate. No offence but Hitchens was nothing more than a wordsmith. A person who parlayed his years of studying the dictionary to berating and belittling those who believed in something he truly could not understand.
there is a video of hitchens in the back of a cab talking to someone. they were conversing without knowing they were being recorded. the guy asks.. is there even one thing that makes you question your beliefs? he stated, paraphrasing, that the fine tuning was certainly something worth much thought, and deserved a careful examination. In fact that video got me interested in the subject, as I have always been a logical and scientific person, and since a typical church conversation is not about physics but faith, that particular area of examination seemed more satisfying to the subset of humanity that I and many others belong to.


edit i found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9TMwfkDwIY
 
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Pascals wager is a con? Why? If you think about it, the wager is accurate. No offence but Hitchens was nothing more than a wordsmith. A person who parlayed his years of studying the dictionary to berating and belittling those who believed in something he truly could not understand.

Partly because if you choose the wrong deity you're stuck in the same boat as the atheists and agnostics. Also why would a god reward us with eternity just for hedging our bets?
 
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