Freeze and Dabo negative religious recruit UT

[InVOLuntary]

I don't think he tried to force anything on anyone, or belittle anyone's religion. He simply made a statement, which was actually fairly accurate. The flying spaghetti monster and god have about the same amount of evidence going for them: not much, if any at all. And then you jumped all over him claiming that he was being rude because his opinion offended you. You can't say that someone shouldn't express an opinion because it hurts your feelings. Now you can refute and debate his opinion all day long, but he still has a right to express it.

Whatever dude. Your definition of belittle and disrespect differs than mine. Following ever changing theories and evidence that seems to contradict itself daily sounds like a far greater reach to me.

As I've said before, these discussions go no where. You all poop on the Bible. People bring science that lends credence to God and you discount it as junk science. You only put stock in publications that support your belief. The difference here is the God believing folk have been nothing but respectful while you and yours have not. People might take you more seriously if weren't so disrespectful of religion. That just my opinion.

 

[JDisThereThere]

I am sure of myself...I'm sure because I believe in the almighty living God and the words He wrote in this awesome book that we have called the Bible. The only proof I need is the proof He will provide when His Son returns again. It will be a great day, but I'm saddened for many souls who will not listen to the good news of Jesus Christ, and let it prick their hearts. His word has continued to stand the test of time. Scientific theories have come and gone and changed...His word remains unchanged, just as He is unchanging. He has told us what we need to do, just like He told Adam and Eve. He told them He would provide all of their needs...all they had to do was tend the beautiful garden that He provided for them...and don't eat of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Btw, God did tell them what would happen if they ate of that particular fruit:

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden,
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." - Genesis 2:15-17

I don't know how much clearer you can be. That's the power the devil has...He tricked Eve into believing that she wouldn't die, and she believe a serpent more than the all-powerful God who gave her life.

Ok so you think that god saying 'if you do this, you will die' is the exact same as god saying 'if you do this, you will die and I will punish everyone who will ever exists in the future and everyone will now be born into sin, if you eat that fruit, you will single handedly cause the fall of man'? Are you saying that the only consequences of Eve eating the fruit were that she died? No! Eve dying was the absolute least of the consequences. God didn't explain the actual repercussions of that action at all.

And again, can you prove that any of that happened? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think you have ever said that you could prove any of it. I don't think you have even tried to prove any of it. You keep citing the bible to refute my arguments, but I keep asking if you can even prove that any of this biblical knowledge that you keep throwing at me is actually true. You say your sure. You say that you do believe this stuff. Why?

This is the big thing for me. Why do you believe in something that you have little to no evidence to prove it's truth? Why be sure that something is true, when you can't show that it is?

In before, 'but you just got to have faith'.

 

[Vols4us]

Ok so you think that god saying 'if you do this, you will die' is the exact same as god saying 'if you do this, you will die and I will punish everyone who will ever exists in the future and everyone will now be born into sin, if you eat that fruit, you will single handedly cause the fall of man'? Are you saying that the only consequences of Eve eating the fruit were that she died? No! Eve dying was the absolute least of the consequences. God didn't explain the actual repercussions of that action at all.

And again, can you prove that any of that happened? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think you have ever said that you could prove any of it. I don't think you have even tried to prove any of it. You keep citing the bible to refute my arguments, but I keep asking if you can even prove that any of this biblical knowledge that you keep throwing at me is actually true. You say your sure. You say that you do believe this stuff. Why?

This is the big thing for me. Why do you believe in something that you have little to no evidence to prove it's truth? Why be sure that something is true, when you can't show that it is?

In before, 'but you just got to have faith'.

Because the evidence exists. You choose not to see it or believe. You choose to have greater faith than believers. You believe in existence from nothing. Again, Romans 1:20.

It is your starting point. You have none. Believers in Jesus have been given a starting point. We have tested it and everything that follows as written with our lives and found it true. You have no starting point to begin your test. Science has no answer for the start. You dispute parts of the Bible as not being credible, while showing no understanding of context in your argument.

You are all over the place making assumptions, point to supposed historical events in other cultures that you assume are true but were not there to witness. Yet, you ridicule the Christian for the same thing. You do no due diligence on your own about those other cultures to compare their belief systems and practices, just parrot what somebody else says as truth. If you understand the Bible you know when actual practices of pagans and other cultures do not match up with how it tells a believer to live.

Again, Lee Stroble's books if you are serious. If not, I hope you find what you seek.

 

[jbr82]

Analogy:

Let's say a house. It has a designer, a blueprint, a builder and a purpose. That house and all of it's structure did not build itself

Look at creation. Earth, sun, moon, water, land, plants, animals and male and female ppl. The blueprint was perfect by how we are all created. Their is a purpose for the sun, water, air, land, animals and plants. Their is a purpose with us male and females. Reproduce. We were created by a supernatural, intelligent, loving God. Jesus came down from heaven on a rescue mission. Ppl turned from God their Creator and He sent Jesus to pay our sin debt on the cross and lead us back to the Father. His grace is greater than our sin. He wants a relationship with His creation and wants us to be with Him after we leave here. He desires all men to be saved and have an eternal loving relationship with Him.

God has always been in existance....our little human minds cant understand bc of what we see in our short time. God told His chosen prophets that He is sovereign and His truth is still here today. He is Spirit and not human. Life didnt happen from non life.

Even the ppl in 3rd world countries can look at creation and sense an Intelligent Creator

 

[JDisThereThere]

Whatever dude. Your definition of belittle and disrespect differs than mine. Following ever changing theories and evidence that seems to contradict itself daily sounds like a far greater reach to me.

As I've said before, these discussions go no where. You all poop on the Bible. People bring science that lends credence to God and you discount it as junk science. You only put stock in publications that support your belief. The difference here is the God believing folk have been nothing but respectful while you and yours have not. People might take you more seriously if weren't so disrespectful of religion. That just my opinion.

Ever changing theories? You realize that gravity is still a theory. Germs are still a theory. The fact that the Earth orbits around the sun is actually still a theory. And yes, evolution is still a theory. A scientific theory is a body of knowledge supported by mountains of facts and data. Equating a scientific theory with like a conspiracy theory is just flat out wrong. Give me an example of a scientific theory that contradicts itself daily? Daily? Seriously?

What is so bad about change? That is the greatest thing about science, it has the ability to change. And it almost always changes for the better because it is always growing more accurate with each new piece of information that is discovered. And yes, it is a good thing that a theory will be proven wrong when better information comes along to disprove it. One of the main problems I have with religion is that it is static. It doesn't change. It can't change because it claims eternal truths. It is set in stone.

Also, I find it slightly humorous that you poop on science, when science has improved your life in numerous ways. Science has given you almost everything you have. I know you'll come back with, 'no, god has given you and I everything we have'. The thing is, you can't prove that. I can prove to you how science has benefitted you. For example, the computers and internet that we are using to have this very conversation were created by science. Medicine and health care that has increased the quality of life and raised life-expectancy rates. Science. Meteorology that is able to detect when a tornado or hurricane is coming and could potentially save your life. Science. The fact that Neyland Stadium has grown from a 3,200 capacity to a 100,000+ capacity. Science. Everything from your car, to your cell phone, your refrigerator, your computer, your this, your that, has all come from modern science.

Finally, I don't believe that I have insulted or disrespected anyone. I haven't said that you guys shouldn't be allowed to believe this stuff. I haven't said that I want to abolish religion or that religious people are stupid. Basically all I've been doing in this thread is asking questions and expressing my opinion. Now if you say that me asking questions of your religion/god is insulting, disrespectful, degrading, etc., then so be it, but no offense, that's just not my problem. Sorry. You're the one who has the problem with me asking questions. What's wrong with asking questions anyway? That's how you learn, right? If god and the bible are infallible, then shouldn't any question about them be able to be asked?

 

[JBondVol]

Straw man argument. Assumption is not in evidence. It is your opinion.

I think either you don't know what a straw man argument is, or you are yourself using one now. I'm leaning toward the latter considering you only addressed the first very first sentence and ignored the rest.

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent."

Like I said, I am sincere in asking for honest rebuttal. Not trying to belittle anyone.

 

[FleeceItOut]

Ever changing theories? You realize that gravity is still a theory. Germs are still a theory. The fact that the Earth orbits around the sun is actually still a theory. And yes, evolution is still a theory. A scientific theory is a body of knowledge supported by mountains of facts and data. Equating a scientific theory with like a conspiracy theory is just flat out wrong. Give me an example of a scientific theory that contradicts itself daily? Daily? Seriously?

What is so bad about change? That is the greatest thing about science, it has the ability to change. And it almost always changes for the better because it is always growing more accurate with each new piece of information that is discovered. And yes, it is a good thing that a theory will be proven wrong when better information comes along to disprove it. One of the main problems I have with religion is that it is static. It doesn't change. It can't change because it claims eternal truths. It is set in stone.

Also, I find it slightly humorous that you poop on science, when science has improved your life in numerous ways. Science has given you almost everything you have. I know you'll come back with, 'no, god has given you and I everything we have'. The thing is, you can't prove that. I can prove to you how science has benefitted you. For example, the computers and internet that we are using to have this very conversation were created by science. Medicine and health care that has increased the quality of life and raised life-expectancy rates. Science. Meteorology that is able to detect when a tornado or hurricane is coming and could potentially save your life. Science. The fact that Neyland Stadium has grown from a 3,200 capacity to a 100,000+ capacity. Science. Everything from your car, to your cell phone, your refrigerator, your computer, your this, your that, has all come from modern science.

Finally, I don't believe that I have insulted or disrespected anyone. I haven't said that you guys shouldn't be allowed to believe this stuff. I haven't said that I want to abolish religion or that religious people are stupid. Basically all I've been doing in this thread is asking questions and expressing my opinion. Now if you say that me asking questions of your religion/god is insulting, disrespectful, degrading, etc., then so be it, but no offense, that's just not my problem. Sorry. You're the one who has the problem with me asking questions. What's wrong with asking questions anyway? That's how you learn, right? If god and the bible are infallible, then shouldn't any question about them be able to be asked?

You sure are spending a lot of time and energy to disprove something that you do not believe in.

Why?

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Ok so you think that god saying 'if you do this, you will die' is the exact same as god saying 'if you do this, you will die and I will punish everyone who will ever exists in the future and everyone will now be born into sin, if you eat that fruit, you will single handedly cause the fall of man'? Are you saying that the only consequences of Eve eating the fruit were that she died? No! Eve dying was the absolute least of the consequences. God didn't explain the actual repercussions of that action at all.

And again, can you prove that any of that happened? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still don't think you have ever said that you could prove any of it. I don't think you have even tried to prove any of it. You keep citing the bible to refute my arguments, but I keep asking if you can even prove that any of this biblical knowledge that you keep throwing at me is actually true. You say your sure. You say that you do believe this stuff. Why?

This is the big thing for me. Why do you believe in something that you have little to no evidence to prove it's truth? Why be sure that something is true, when you can't show that it is?

In before, 'but you just got to have faith'.

No one is born into sin.

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. - Ezekiel 18:20

Eve introduced sin into the world by her actions. The consequences she paid for disobedience were physical death and pain in child-bearing (Genesis 3:16). No one suffers punishment or consequences for sin because of what Eve did; however, when one sins (and we are told that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God...Romans 3:23), then there are consequences for our disobedience.

I ask you the same questions you ask me...why do you believe in all of your theories? That's all they are...theories. You can't prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that macro-evolution is real. Why do you believe in something that you have little to no evidence to prove its truth? Why do you believe in something that has grown legs to its theory over the course of what...200 years maybe? I believe in something, or should I say someone, who has been in existence forever, and will continue to exist forever! I feel that I have all the proof I need in His inspired word to know that He is real, and heaven and hell will be real...and, I don't want to be found unfaithful and believing in man-made theories when my Savior returns again.

You mock my faith in God and His word, yet you have to have just as much faith, if not more, to believe the man-made theories that you believe. Somewhat ironic, don't you think? Good night, sir.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Ever changing theories? You realize that gravity is still a theory. Germs are still a theory. The fact that the Earth orbits around the sun is actually still a theory. And yes, evolution is still a theory. A scientific theory is a body of knowledge supported by mountains of facts and data. Equating a scientific theory with like a conspiracy theory is just flat out wrong. Give me an example of a scientific theory that contradicts itself daily? Daily? Seriously?

What is so bad about change? That is the greatest thing about science, it has the ability to change. And it almost always changes for the better because it is always growing more accurate with each new piece of information that is discovered. And yes, it is a good thing that a theory will be proven wrong when better information comes along to disprove it. One of the main problems I have with religion is that it is static. It doesn't change. It can't change because it claims eternal truths. It is set in stone.

Also, I find it slightly humorous that you poop on science, when science has improved your life in numerous ways. Science has given you almost everything you have. I know you'll come back with, 'no, god has given you and I everything we have'. The thing is you can't prove that. I can prove to you how science has benefitted you. For example, the computers and internet that we are using to have this very conversation was created by science. Medicine and health care that has increased the quality of life and raised life-expectancy rates. Science. Meteorology that is able to detect when a tornado or hurricane is coming and could potentially save your life. Science. The fact that Neyland Stadium has grown from a 3,200 capacity to a 100,000+ capacity. Science. Everything from your car, to your cell phone, your refrigerator, your computer, your this, your that, has all come from modern science.

Finally, I don't believe that I have insulted or disrespected anyone. I haven't said that you guys shouldn't be allowed to believe this stuff. I haven't said that I want to abolish religion. Basically all I've been doing in this thread is asking questions and expressing my opinion. Now if you say that me asking questions of your religion/god is insulting, disrespectful, degrading, etc., then so be it, but no offense, that's just not my problem. Sorry. You're the one who has the problem with me asking questions. What's wrong with asking questions anyway? That's how you learn, right? If god and the bible are infallible, then shouldn't any question about them be able to be asked?

Like I said we have a different standard as to what we think disrespect is. All I have to do is look at your last response to OG.

We are different people. To give you an example, if your familiar with the Bigfoot thread in the pub. I don't personally believe in the existence of Bigfoot but you don't find me in there ridiculing him like many of the childish, classless morons do. If he wants to believe that's his prerogative and it's not my place to try and belittle him.

Hey if it makes you feel better, have at it.

 

[jbr82]

Ever changing theories? You realize that gravity is still a theory. Germs are still a theory. The fact that the Earth orbits around the sun is actually still a theory. And yes, evolution is still a theory. A scientific theory is a body of knowledge supported by mountains of facts and data. Equating a scientific theory with like a conspiracy theory is just flat out wrong. Give me an example of a scientific theory that contradicts itself daily? Daily? Seriously?

What is so bad about change? That is the greatest thing about science, it has the ability to change. And it almost always changes for the better because it is always growing more accurate with each new piece of information that is discovered. And yes, it is a good thing that a theory will be proven wrong when better information comes along to disprove it. One of the main problems I have with religion is that it is static. It doesn't change. It can't change because it claims eternal truths. It is set in stone.

Also, I find it slightly humorous that you poop on science, when science has improved your life in numerous ways. Science has given you almost everything you have. I know you'll come back with, 'no, god has given you and I everything we have'. The thing is, you can't prove that. I can prove to you how science has benefitted you. For example, the computers and internet that we are using to have this very conversation were created by science. Medicine and health care that has increased the quality of life and raised life-expectancy rates. Science. Meteorology that is able to detect when a tornado or hurricane is coming and could potentially save your life. Science. The fact that Neyland Stadium has grown from a 3,200 capacity to a 100,000+ capacity. Science. Everything from your car, to your cell phone, your refrigerator, your computer, your this, your that, has all come from modern science.

Finally, I don't believe that I have insulted or disrespected anyone. I haven't said that you guys shouldn't be allowed to believe this stuff. I haven't said that I want to abolish religion or that religious people are stupid. Basically all I've been doing in this thread is asking questions and expressing my opinion. Now if you say that me asking questions of your religion/god is insulting, disrespectful, degrading, etc., then so be it, but no offense, that's just not my problem. Sorry. You're the one who has the problem with me asking questions. What's wrong with asking questions anyway? That's how you learn, right? If god and the bible are infallible, then shouldn't any question about them be able to be asked?

It is set in stone bc God don't goof around and keep ppl guessing

He is a straight shooter.
Basically He let us know about creation, purpose, and how much He loves what and who He created.

But angels in the heavenly place turned against God bc of pride. Like a child would turn and rebel against a parent. God cast the fallen angels here on earth and he has been deceiving humankind ever since. Sin is the reason we have bad things happening, death, sickness, decay etc. But God gave us the Way back to Him....Jesus

 

[jbr82]

Satan is behind every belief outside of The gospel of Jesus.

Satan is here to deceive and turn ppl away from God so we will be forever separated. GOD will honor whatever decision we make. But those who reject God and His invitation to heaven will spend eternity with the one they listened to and followed....satan

Satan hates God and attacked Gods most precious creature.....us

 

[JDisThereThere]

You sure are spending a lot of time and energy to disprove something that you do not believe in.

Why?

I was wondering if someone was going to ask me this.

First, I actually enjoy having these discussions/debates on the big philosophical questions? In a sense, it is a minor hobby of mine. I think it is a good thing to make other people think about stuff in a way that they may have not thought about it before, and I like when people make me think about things in a different way. That's how we make progress and learn new things. I hardly devote a whole lot of time or energy to it though, as I honestly don't do it that much. But I really do enjoy it.

Second and more importantly, I think even most religious people would agree with me the dangers that organized religion presents, and the atrocities that it has infected upon the world. Some examples are the crusades, the inquisition, the mistreatment of women and homosexuals, the suppression of advancing scientific knowledge, human sacrifices, the burning of witches, arranged marriages, jihadism, suicide bombings, endorsements of slavery, the child raping in the Catholic Church and subsequenct covering up of said child raping pedophiles, 9/11, the holocaust, etc., etc., etc. Think of how many wars religion has started. Think of the current religious civil war in the Middle East that has been raging for centuries, which could threaten the survival of the human race when you consider what might happen if some of those nutters obtain nuclear weapons. Long story short, I don't think religion is a force for good in the world. Not to say it hasn't done good things, but I think it has done more harm than good.

That's in the macro-sense of the effects of religion. I recognize that the vast majority of religious people are good people that are just as disgusted by the way people abuse religion and use it to do terrible things. If I had to guess, I would say all of you guys are good, decent people. I don't really know you, but I bet you are. My family is religious, and they are all great people. Yet in the minor-sense, I think that religion actually hurts good people as well. Let me explain. I think, and have actually witnessed, that religion can prevent people from asking important questions and attempting to expand their knowledge because in many ways religion claims that it has all the answers or at least all the answers that you need. It can prevent people from living life to the fullest because they think that they'll get an eternal afterlife. I think that it is not a good thing to tell (threaten) children that they will burn in hell if they don't believe this stuff. I think that is actually fairly immoral. Long story short here is, I think that religion is a thought controlling entity, and I think that controlling people's thoughts is bad.

 

[jbr82]

I was wondering if someone was going to ask me this.

First, I actually enjoy having these discussions/debates on the big philosophical questions? In a sense, it is a minor hobby of mine. I think it is a good thing to make other people think about stuff in a way that they may have not thought about it before, and I like when people make me think about things in a different way. That's how we make progress and learn new things. I hardly devote a whole lot of time or energy to it though, as I honestly don't do it that much. But I really do enjoy it.

Second and more importantly, I think even most religious people would agree with me the dangers that organized religion presents, and the atrocities that it has infected upon the world. Some examples are the crusades, the inquisition, the mistreatment of women and homosexuals, the suppression of advancing scientific knowledge, human sacrifices, the burning of witches, arranged marriages, jihadism, suicide bombings, endorsements of slavery, the child raping in the Catholic Church and subsequenct covering up of said child raping pedophiles, 9/11, the holocaust, etc., etc., etc. Think of how many wars religion has started. Think of the current religious civil war in the Middle East that has been raging for centuries, which could threaten the survival of the human race when you consider what might happen if some of those nutters obtain nuclear weapons. Long story short, I don't think religion is a force for good in the world. Not to say it hasn't done good things, but I think it has done more harm than good.

That's in the macro-sense of the effects of religion. I recognize that the vast majority of religious people are good people that are just as disgusted by the way people abuse religion and use it to do terrible things. If I had to guess, I would say all of you guys are good, decent people. I don't really know you, but I bet you are. My family is religious, and they are all great people. Yet in the minor-sense, I think that religion actually hurts good people as well. Let me explain. I think, and have actually witnessed, that religion can prevent people from asking important questions and attempting to expand their knowledge because in many ways religion claims that it has all the answers or at least all the answers that you need. It can prevent people from living life to the fullest because they think that they'll get an eternal afterlife. I think that it is not a good thing to tell (threaten) children that they will burn in hell if they don't believe this stuff. I think that is actually fairly immoral. Long story short here is, I think that religion is a thought controlling entity, and I think that controlling people's thoughts is bad.

Jesus, God Son, taught to love our enemies. And treat others the way we want to be. Christ followers still sin bc of our sinful nature. Noone will be perfect in this lifetime. But as believers we should persue loving others and righteousness.

Jesus is the example to follow....not man bc we are too flawed.

All other man made religions may be defiled and twisted to harm others. The enemy of our souls inspired "other religions"

 

[JDisThereThere]

No one is born into sin.

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. - Ezekiel 18:20

Eve introduced sin into the world by her actions. The consequences she paid for disobedience were physical death and pain in child-bearing (Genesis 3:16). No one suffers punishment or consequences for sin because of what Eve did; however, when one sins (and we are told that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God...Romans 3:23), then there are consequences for our disobedience.

I ask you the same questions you ask me...why do you believe in all of your theories? That's all they are...theories. You can't prove to me without a shadow of a doubt that macro-evolution is real. Why do you believe in something that you have little to no evidence to prove its truth? Why do you believe in something that has grown legs to its theory over the course of what...200 years maybe? I believe in something, or should I say someone, who has been in existence forever, and will continue to exist forever! I feel that I have all the proof I need in His inspired word to know that He is real, and heaven and hell will be real...and, I don't want to be found unfaithful and believing in man-made theories when my Savior returns again.

You mock my faith in God and His word, yet you have to have just as much faith, if not more, to believe the man-made theories that you believe. Somewhat ironic, don't you think? Good night, sir.

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

That was straight out of the dictionary. Evolution has tons of data and facts to support it. Hell we have more evidence of evolution than we do for gravity. Do you think the theory of gravity is also a hoax?

Now you are right, I can't prove to 100% certainty to you (or anyone else) that it is true. And I don't need to. The great thing about a scientific theory is that whether or not you accept, it is the most appropriate position to take on any given subject because it has be tested and examined and tested again and re-examined thousands of times to show that it is most probably true. If it were disproven tomorrow, I would stop accepting it. A scientific theory becomes a scientific theory because every scientist on the planet has tried to disprove it and can't.

To say there is little to no evidence for evolution is asinine. Sorry, it just is OG. Evolution is one of the the things that we have the most evidence for. Have you been to a natural history museum? Do you just completely discount the fossil record? Completely discount genetics? Completely discount carbon dating? Really just about completely discount most of science? Evolution is one of the cornerstones of modern science, and it has aided the advancement of so many other scientific disciplines.

Why do you think that evolution is taught in science classrooms rather than creationism? Do you think that all these biologists, geologists and anthropologists are trying to trick everyone? No. They have come to these conclusions based upon the evidence that they have found.

I don't have faith in evolution. I accept it as the most likely answer to how all life has become what it is today. Again, I think it is something like 97% of scientists accept that all life on this planet has evolved by process of natural selection over time. It is about as close to scientific fact as something can be without actually being a scientific fact.

 

[JDisThereThere]

Jesus, God Son, taught to love our enemies. And treat others the way we want to be. Christ followers still sin bc of our sinful nature. Noone will be perfect in this lifetime. But as believers we should persue loving others and righteousness.

Jesus is the example to follow....not man bc we are too flawed.

All other man made religions may be defiled and twisted to harm others. The enemy of our souls inspired "other religions"

You guys keep acting like I have zero knowledge of the bible. I've read the bible. I was raised a christian. I've heard all the good stories multiple times over. There just isn't any evidence to show that Christianity is true.

 

[JDisThereThere]

It is set in stone bc God don't goof around and keep ppl guessing

He is a straight shooter.
Basically He let us know about creation, purpose, and how much He loves what and who He created.

But angels in the heavenly place turned against God bc of pride. Like a child would turn and rebel against a parent. God cast the fallen angels here on earth and he has been deceiving humankind ever since. Sin is the reason we have bad things happening, death, sickness, decay etc. But God gave us the Way back to Him....Jesus

If it is evidently true, and god really is a straight shooter, then wouldn't Christianity be the one and only religion? The bible is pretty ambiguous on a lot of stuff. I don't agree with you that god is such a straight shooter. If it really were the one true religion, then why are there literally thousands of other religions that all make similar claims to Christianity? Wouldn't it just be obviously true and everyone would believe it, if it really were true?

I mean god's method to spreading his word is to have a everything in some ancient book that contains some pretty crazy, kooky stuff, and to prove that this book is true, he sends himself down to earth in human form to live for about 40 years in a barbaric, pre-technological era where most everybody is illiterate. He performs a handful of astonishing things in front of very few witnesses, and then sacrifices himself to himself to save us from his judgement.

Why didn't god send Jesus down to the Chinese, who were actually learning to read and write, and could have documented his exploits much more throughly?

I love this meme.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

All other man made religions may be defiled and twisted to harm others. The enemy of our souls inspired "other religions"

Yeah Christianity has definitely been twisted to harm others before. Crusades, people justifying slavery, the Spanish Inquisition, Christian Rock n Roll, etc. are all pretty good examples of that.

Edit: my only point here is that people twisting religion to suit their own purposes is not exclusive to non-christian religions.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I am sure of myself...I'm sure because I believe in the almighty living God and the words He wrote in this awesome book that we have called the Bible. The only proof I need is the proof He will provide when His Son returns again. It will be a great day, but I'm saddened for many souls who will not listen to the good news of Jesus Christ, and let it prick their hearts. His word has continued to stand the test of time. Scientific theories have come and gone and changed...His word remains unchanged, just as He is unchanging. He has told us what we need to do, just like He told Adam and Eve. He told them He would provide all of their needs...all they had to do was tend the beautiful garden that He provided for them...and don't eat of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Btw, God did tell them what would happen if they ate of that particular fruit:

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden,
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." - Genesis 2:15-17

I don't know how much clearer you can be. That's the power the devil has...He tricked Eve into believing that she wouldn't die, and she believe a serpent more than the all-powerful God who gave her life.

Did God write the book or man? Around 60 of them iirc and some are completely unknown (Genesis, Job, Hebrews) and some are excluded like the book of Enoch even though it parallels with Genesis.

And Eve wasn't around when God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge. Not that I consider myself a believer and definitely not a biblical scholar, but I highly doubt they were physical trees. Very, very few people take the creation story of Genesis literally, unless you're Ken Ham. Of course Ken Ham believes dinosaurs gathered lemons and fruit for man.

 

[StoVol]

many of you are conflating philosophical arguments based on perceived conclusions from science that was taught to you by people who refuse to think about the teleological side of an argument.

It's one thing to grant the existence of the unexplained and then simply examine the how of phenomena afterward, but quite another to use the evidence of the how to support the why. The Why is a different argument altogether.

There are two basic instances of the why for human beings that deserve thinking about. The beginning of the existence of matter and energy and the beginning of the existence of life. You either fall in the chance camp or the design camp, each of which deserve a careful examination. In the end there is a final cause or we just kick the can down the road. Who created god? Or is he the final cause? If chance created the big bang who structured the rules of chance? If you believe in the law of conservation of energy then matter can neither be created nor destroyed. What makes you believe that?

If the density of matter were different at the big bang of the magnitude of 1 part in 10^120 then we would not be here. The probability of just one single protein assembling itself from the 20 amino acids is astronomical. But the 4000 proteins in the human body along with innumerable enzymes needed to go against the laws of entropy to create useful energy one atom at a time just completely blows my mind.

So the logical thing to ask is what is the inference to the best explanation to the laws (Now in Operation) ? We see no chance going against the laws of entropy. We see no violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. And we see no alphabet (ATCG) or no language (DNA) and no words (Genome) being created now. We see no tranlation (mRNA, enzymes, epigenes), coming into existence.

If it were that likely to have created the simplest protein we would see evidence of it but we do not. DNA is a language which transmits information. Human beings have never seen random chance violate the laws of entropy or thermodynamics, but intelligence can. You confuse Shannon information with specified complexity.

Inference to the best explanation due to causes now in operation

A program requires a programmer, regardless of any bastardized interpretation of its designer

 

[JBondVol]

Here's a few similarities shared between Jesus and Horus, the Egyptian Sun God:

1. Horus baptized with water by Anup = Jesus Baptized with water by John.
2. Anup, the Baptizer = John the Baptist.
3. Aan, a name of the divine scribe = John the divine scribe.
4. Horus born in Annu, the place of bread = Jesus born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.
5. Horus the Good Shepherd with the crook upon his shoulders = Jesus the Good Shepherd with the lamb or kid upon his shoulder.
6. The Seven on board the boat with Horus = The seven fishers on board the boat with Jesus.
7. Horus as the Lamb = Jesus as the Lamb.
8. Horus as the Lion = Jesus as the Lion.
9. Horus identified with the Tat or Cross = Jesus identified with the Cross.
10. Horus of twelve years = Jesus of twelve years.
11. Horus made a man of thirty years in his baptism = Jesus made a man of thirty years in his baptism.
12. Horus the Krst = Jesus the Christ.
13. Horus the manifesting Son of God = Jesus the manifesting Son of God.
14. The trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit = The trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
15. The first Horus as a child of the Virgin, the second as the Son of Ra = Jesus as the Virgins child, the Christ as Son of the Father.
16. Horus the sower and Set the destroyer in the harvesting = Jesus the sower of the good seed and Satan the sower of tares.
17. Horus carried off by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep = Jesus spirited away by Satan into an exceedingly high mountain.
18. Set and Horus contending on the Mount = Jesus and Satan contending on the Mount.
19. The Star as the announcer of the child Horus = The Star in the East that indicated the birthplace of Jesus.
20. Hours the avenger = Jesus who brings the sword.
21. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, who comes with peace = Jesus the bringer of peace.
22. Horus the afflicted one = Jesus the afflicted one.
23. Horus as the type of life eternal = Jesus the type of eternal life.
24. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, the child teacher in the temple = The child Jesus as teacher in the temple.
25. The mummy bandage that was woven without seam =The vesture of Christ without a seam.
26. Twelve followers of Horus as Har-Khutti = Twelve followers of Jesus as the twelve disciples.
27. The revelation written down by Aan (Tehuti) the scribe of divine words = The revelation by John the divine.
28. The saluter Aani, who bears witness to the word of Ra and to the testimony of Horus = John who bears witness to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
29. The secret of the Mysteries revealed by Taht-Aan = The secret of the Mysteries made known by John.
30. Horus the Morning Star = Jesus the Morning Star.
31. Horus who gives the Morning Star to his followers = Jesus who gives the Morning Star to his followers.
32. The name of Ra on the head of the deceased = The name of the Father written on the forehead.
33. The Paradise of the Pole Star-Am-Khemen = The Holy City lighted by one luminary, that is neither the Sun nor the Moon = the Pole Star.
34. The Har-Seshu, or servants of Horus = The servants of Jesus Christ.

 

[Volator]

You guys keep acting like I have zero knowledge of the bible. I've read the bible. I was raised a christian.


You may have read selected passages of the Bible but your questions and statements show you have not studied scripture. One is not raised Christian, a person is either a Christian or not. Your constant "prove it" reminds me of the Pharisees who mocked Christ when he was on the cross, the miracles and signs they had witnessed were not enough.

Your mocking of God and our faith is disrespectful which you will answer for as all sins can be forgiven except one.

 

[JBondVol]

many of you are conflating philosophical arguments based on perceived conclusions from science that was taught to you by people who refuse to think about the teleological side of an argument.

It's one thing to grant the existence of the unexplained and then simply examine the how of phenomena afterward, but quite another to use the evidence of the how to support the why. The Why is a different argument altogether.

There are two basic instances of the why for human beings that deserve thinking about. The beginning of the existence of matter and energy and the beginning of the existence of life. You either fall in the chance camp or the design camp, each of which deserve a careful examination. In the end there is a final cause or we just kick the can down the road. Who created god? Or is he the final cause? If chance created the big bang who structured the rules of chance? If you believe in the law of conservation of energy then matter can neither be created nor destroyed. What makes you believe that?

If the density of matter were different at the big bang of the magnitude of 1 part in 10^120 then we would not be here. The probability of just one single protein assembling itself from the 20 amino acids is astronomical. But the 4000 proteins in the human body along with innumerable enzymes needed to go against the laws of entropy to create useful energy one atom at a time just completely blows my mind.

So the logical thing to ask is what is the inference to the best explanation to the laws (Now in Operation) ? We see no chance going against the laws of entropy. We see no violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. And we see no alphabet (ATCG) or no language (DNA) and no words (Genome) being created now. We see no transaltion (mRNA, enzymes, epigenes), coming into existence.

If it were that likely to have created the simplest protein we would see evidence of it but we do not. DNA is a language which transmits information. Human beings have never seen random chance violate the laws of entropy or thermodynamics, but intelligence can. You confuse Shannon information with specified complexity.

Inference to the best explanation due to causes now in operation

A program requires a programmer, regardless of any bastardized interpretation of its designer

I read this 3 times and still unsure about your general point. Could you dumb it down for me?

A program requires a programmer, I agree. We just disagree about who/what the programmer is.

 

[JBondVol]

Similarities between Krishna and Christ:
Both are held to be really god incarnate
Both were incarnated and born of a woman
The mother in each case was a holy virgin
The father of each was a carpenter
Both were of royal decent
Each had the title of "Savior"
Both were "without sin"
Both were crucified
Both were crucified between two thieves
Each taught of a great and final day of judgment

 

[JDisThereThere]

Here's a few similarities shared between Jesus and Horus, the Egyptian Sun God:

1. Horus baptized with water by Anup = Jesus Baptized with water by John.
2. Anup, the Baptizer = John the Baptist.
3. Aan, a name of the divine scribe = John the divine scribe.
4. Horus born in Annu, the place of bread = Jesus born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.
5. Horus the Good Shepherd with the crook upon his shoulders = Jesus the Good Shepherd with the lamb or kid upon his shoulder.
6. The Seven on board the boat with Horus = The seven fishers on board the boat with Jesus.
7. Horus as the Lamb = Jesus as the Lamb.
8. Horus as the Lion = Jesus as the Lion.
9. Horus identified with the Tat or Cross = Jesus identified with the Cross.
10. Horus of twelve years = Jesus of twelve years.
11. Horus made a man of thirty years in his baptism = Jesus made a man of thirty years in his baptism.
12. Horus the Krst = Jesus the Christ.
13. Horus the manifesting Son of God = Jesus the manifesting Son of God.
14. The trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit = The trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
15. The first Horus as a child of the Virgin, the second as the Son of Ra = Jesus as the Virgins child, the Christ as Son of the Father.
16. Horus the sower and Set the destroyer in the harvesting = Jesus the sower of the good seed and Satan the sower of tares.
17. Horus carried off by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep = Jesus spirited away by Satan into an exceedingly high mountain.
18. Set and Horus contending on the Mount = Jesus and Satan contending on the Mount.
19. The Star as the announcer of the child Horus = The Star in the East that indicated the birthplace of Jesus.
20. Hours the avenger = Jesus who brings the sword.
21. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, who comes with peace = Jesus the bringer of peace.
22. Horus the afflicted one = Jesus the afflicted one.
23. Horus as the type of life eternal = Jesus the type of eternal life.
24. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, the child teacher in the temple = The child Jesus as teacher in the temple.
25. The mummy bandage that was woven without seam =The vesture of Christ without a seam.
26. Twelve followers of Horus as Har-Khutti = Twelve followers of Jesus as the twelve disciples.
27. The revelation written down by Aan (Tehuti) the scribe of divine words = The revelation by John the divine.
28. The saluter Aani, who bears witness to the word of Ra and to the testimony of Horus = John who bears witness to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
29. The secret of the Mysteries revealed by Taht-Aan = The secret of the Mysteries made known by John.
30. Horus the Morning Star = Jesus the Morning Star.
31. Horus who gives the Morning Star to his followers = Jesus who gives the Morning Star to his followers.
32. The name of Ra on the head of the deceased = The name of the Father written on the forehead.
33. The Paradise of the Pole Star-Am-Khemen = The Holy City lighted by one luminary, that is neither the Sun nor the Moon = the Pole Star.
34. The Har-Seshu, or servants of Horus = The servants of Jesus Christ.

I've always found this comparison really interesting, especially when you consider that the Egyptians talked about Horus a few thousand years before Jesus.

One can make a fairly good argument that Christianity is nothing but the plagiarism of earlier religions with some Greek philosophy thrown in there. And then Islam blatantly plagiarized a whole lot from Christianity.

 

[StoVol]

I read this 3 times and still unsure about your general point. Could you dumb it down for me?

A program requires a programmer, I agree. We just disagree about who/what the programmer is.

I cant dumb it down for you , can you smart it up for me?

seriously tho, dumbed down would be

There are two basic instances of the why for human beings that deserve thinking about. The beginning of the existence of matter and energy and the beginning of the existence of life. You either fall in the chance camp or the design camp, each of which deserve a careful examination.