Freeze and Dabo negative religious recruit UT

[JDisThereThere]

You guys keep acting like I have zero knowledge of the bible. I've read the bible. I was raised a christian.


You may have read selected passages of the Bible but your questions and statements show you have not studied scripture. One is not raised Christian, a person is either a Christian or not. Your constant "prove it" reminds me of the Pharisees who mocked Christ when he was on the cross, the miracles and signs they had witnessed were not enough.

Your mocking of God and our faith is disrespectful which you will answer for as all sins can be forgiven except one.

I've actually read the whole thing cover to cover when I was really wondering about this stuff, and reading the whole thing convinced me that it was most likely not true at all. It's a pretty brutal read. Now I wouldn't claim I was a biblical expert, but I think I've read enough to understand what the message is.

Have I really mocked god? All I'm doing is asking questions. I haven't really made fun of him in a cruel, sinister way. I'm just asking questions. If asking questions about god is wrong and/or angers him, then what does that tell you? Wouldn't that be something that a 'big brother'-esqe, totalitarian tyrant would worry about it and not want you to be doing? Again, if god is perfect? Then why should he be worried about me asking questions?

All the sunday school classes and bible studies I experienced never asked these types of questions. Does god exist? Is god good? Does god deserve praise? Etc. We always just assumed that god was real and good, and tried to figure everything else out.

I will say that one of the most important things that my high school bible study teacher said to us was, "Look guys. Nobody can believe this stuff for you. You have to study it and decide for yourself". So I did, and that studying and deciding for myself is one of the primary things that lead me to become an agnostic atheist. I didn't just take it for granted that it was true.

 

[JBondVol]

I've always found this comparison really interesting, especially when you consider that the Egyptians talked about Horus a few thousand years before Jesus.

One can make a fairly good argument that Christianity is nothing but the plagiarism of earlier religions with some Greek philosophy thrown in there. And then Islam blatantly plagiarized a whole lot from Christianity.

My thoughts exactly. The same theme has been repackaged over and over down through the ages.

 

[JDisThereThere]

Analogy:

Let's say a house. It has a designer, a blueprint, a builder and a purpose. That house and all of it's structure did not build itself

Look at creation. Earth, sun, moon, water, land, plants, animals and male and female ppl. The blueprint was perfect by how we are all created. Their is a purpose for the sun, water, air, land, animals and plants. Their is a purpose with us male and females. Reproduce. We were created by a supernatural, intelligent, loving God. Jesus came down from heaven on a rescue mission. Ppl turned from God their Creator and He sent Jesus to pay our sin debt on the cross and lead us back to the Father. His grace is greater than our sin. He wants a relationship with His creation and wants us to be with Him after we leave here. He desires all men to be saved and have an eternal loving relationship with Him.

God has always been in existance....our little human minds cant understand bc of what we see in our short time. God told His chosen prophets that He is sovereign and His truth is still here today. He is Spirit and not human. Life didnt happen from non life.

Even the ppl in 3rd world countries can look at creation and sense an Intelligent Creator

The 'fine-tuning' argument is probably the biggest thing that makes me question my atheism. I think you can make a pretty good argument either way that the universe was designed or not. Certain facts make it seem like it was designed and other facts make it seem like it wasn't. Quite frankly, we don't have enough information or intelligence to know if it was or wasn't.

I've conceded that there could be a creator or creators of the universe.However, if you could prove that there was a creator(s), that doesn't mean that creator(s) was a supernatural being. How do you know that the universe wasn't created by some other alien race? Now if you could prove that the creator(s) was in fact a supernatural deity, a god, that only gets you to the deistic position. To get to a theistic position, you have to show that this creator cares about and intervenes in the affairs of humans.

Knowing what I know about us, our world and the universe, I'm not sure how anyone could say that it was all designed with us in mind. What about us is perfect? What about our world is perfect? What about the universe is perfect? What about this universe seems like it was designed specifically for us? We are but specks living on a slightly larger speck in the middle of a vast cosmic ocean of chaos, destruction and nothingness. Just doesn't appear to have bee created by a benevolent, all-loving, perfect god to me.

Also, just to take one example of the stuff you mentioned. You say that the blueprint was perfect and that the sun has a purpose. Don't get me wrong the sun is great. We nor the Earth would be here without it. Yet what do you think about the fact that the sun, our main source of heat, energy and light, gives us skin cancer? And you'll go blind if you stare at for too long. Not to mention that near it's death it will effectively kill the Earth by expanded so much that it might encompass the Earth (or at least render the Earth inhospitable). Sorry, that just doesn't seem like a perfect blueprint to me.

 

[JDisThereThere]

My thoughts exactly. The same theme has been repackaged over and over down through the ages.

Yep, different versions of the same general story.

 

[Burger]

In your experience, you are not sure if there is a God. In others' experience, including mine, we know God. You and others that believe as you do do not see physical evidence from observation and other means. Those of us that know him know he transcends physicality, even while being the creator and author of everything observed. When your heart hungers for him and his truth, he knows and responds with answers. If you don't, he will not be present and he leaves you free to pursue whatever path you choose. It is your choice and narrow is the path that leads to him.

No serious historian doubts the existence of Jesus Christ. His life is recorded in Judeo Christian and secular works in addition to the Bible. He is referenced several times in the Koran. It is your choice to believe or not believe he was the Son of God and Messiah to the world. The course of history changed dramatically because of the beliefs of non-powerful common men and women that were actually with him, those that followed in each generation, and those that gave their actual lives for him. They still do all over the world. Believers desire for everybody to know and have what we have. We are not crazy fools with nothing better to do. We have found peace, joy, and true meaning in life. This belief and resulting life has nothing to do with religion, rules, earning credits for the ultimate graduation, working hard to prove ourselves, trying to justify, etc. It has to do with what Jesus wants us to do as his disciple; love God with all we are, love others as we love ourselves, and go into all the world to share this good news so that all may know that God has come to Earth in the flesh and blood of Jesus to set us free from sin and death.

You point to scientific theory being different from the word theory. I do not know what that means. But as an example I do know that science had theories about black holes colliding and the results of those actions on gravitational waves that were proven wrong very recently. A theory Einstein had 100 years ago was proven correct. The interesting part was time speeded up, slowed down, then speeded up again. Scientists did not think that was possible in their theories. So a theory is a theory and subject to changing as more factual information is known.

The theory of evolution is 99% to be proven fact. Heck the theory of creation was changed to intelligent design. People over the last two thousand years were forced to believe to the point if they didn't, they would be killed. The only reason evolution isn't a law is because religious people would go nuts.
I personally believe in string theory. That's where the path of destiny is determined by human choices and different variables. If the bible was about the flying spaghetti monster instead of god, belief in the flying spaghetti monster would of influenced the last 2000 years while the belief of god would be satire.

Stovol is making the point that scientific laws have not been unproven. He is also saying that the entity that created these laws is interpreted by different people.

It all comes down to what existed first, the chicken or the egg.

Freeze and Dabo are both proven to be hypocrites. They wouldn't be negative recruiting if they weren't.

 

[TnWalker]

Here's a few similarities shared between Jesus and Horus, the Egyptian Sun God:

1. Horus baptized with water by Anup = Jesus Baptized with water by John.
2. Anup, the Baptizer = John the Baptist.
3. Aan, a name of the divine scribe = John the divine scribe.
4. Horus born in Annu, the place of bread = Jesus born in Bethlehem, the house of bread.
5. Horus the Good Shepherd with the crook upon his shoulders = Jesus the Good Shepherd with the lamb or kid upon his shoulder.
6. The Seven on board the boat with Horus = The seven fishers on board the boat with Jesus.
7. Horus as the Lamb = Jesus as the Lamb.
8. Horus as the Lion = Jesus as the Lion.
9. Horus identified with the Tat or Cross = Jesus identified with the Cross.
10. Horus of twelve years = Jesus of twelve years.
11. Horus made a man of thirty years in his baptism = Jesus made a man of thirty years in his baptism.
12. Horus the Krst = Jesus the Christ.
13. Horus the manifesting Son of God = Jesus the manifesting Son of God.
14. The trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit = The trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
15. The first Horus as a child of the Virgin, the second as the Son of Ra = Jesus as the Virgins child, the Christ as Son of the Father.
16. Horus the sower and Set the destroyer in the harvesting = Jesus the sower of the good seed and Satan the sower of tares.
17. Horus carried off by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep = Jesus spirited away by Satan into an exceedingly high mountain.
18. Set and Horus contending on the Mount = Jesus and Satan contending on the Mount.
19. The Star as the announcer of the child Horus = The Star in the East that indicated the birthplace of Jesus.
20. Hours the avenger = Jesus who brings the sword.
21. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, who comes with peace = Jesus the bringer of peace.
22. Horus the afflicted one = Jesus the afflicted one.
23. Horus as the type of life eternal = Jesus the type of eternal life.
24. Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, the child teacher in the temple = The child Jesus as teacher in the temple.
25. The mummy bandage that was woven without seam =The vesture of Christ without a seam.
26. Twelve followers of Horus as Har-Khutti = Twelve followers of Jesus as the twelve disciples.
27. The revelation written down by Aan (Tehuti) the scribe of divine words = The revelation by John the divine.
28. The saluter Aani, who bears witness to the word of Ra and to the testimony of Horus = John who bears witness to the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
29. The secret of the Mysteries revealed by Taht-Aan = The secret of the Mysteries made known by John.
30. Horus the Morning Star = Jesus the Morning Star.
31. Horus who gives the Morning Star to his followers = Jesus who gives the Morning Star to his followers.
32. The name of Ra on the head of the deceased = The name of the Father written on the forehead.
33. The Paradise of the Pole Star-Am-Khemen = The Holy City lighted by one luminary, that is neither the Sun nor the Moon = the Pole Star.
34. The Har-Seshu, or servants of Horus = The servants of Jesus Christ.

Sorry, but this is a load of manure and not true at all. Many of these "facts" are the concoction of 19th century amateur Egyptologist Gerald Massey, who is almost universally unrecognized as an expert today.

Horus did not have a virgin birth.
Not baptised by Anup.
Not twelve followers.
Horus morphed over 3000 years.

As Horus is a central figure in Egyptian mythology, it would be odd if there weren't parallels with Christ, the central figure in Christian belief ... so naturally there are parallels, such as him being the savior, a healer, etc.

However, many of the parallels listed above are stretches at best.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.

That was straight out of the dictionary. Evolution has tons of data and facts to support it. Hell we have more evidence of evolution than we do for gravity. Do you think the theory of gravity is also a hoax?

Now you are right, I can't prove to 100% certainty to you (or anyone else) that it is true. And I don't need to. The great thing about a scientific theory is that whether or not you accept, it is the most appropriate position to take on any given subject because it has be tested and examined and tested again and re-examined thousands of times to show that it is most probably true. If it were disproven tomorrow, I would stop accepting it. A scientific theory becomes a scientific theory because every scientist on the planet has tried to disprove it and can't.

To say there is little to no evidence for evolution is asinine. Sorry, it just is OG. Evolution is one of the the things that we have the most evidence for. Have you been to a natural history museum? Do you just completely discount the fossil record? Completely discount genetics? Completely discount carbon dating? Really just about completely discount most of science? Evolution is one of the cornerstones of modern science, and it has aided the advancement of so many other scientific disciplines.

Why do you think that evolution is taught in science classrooms rather than creationism? Do you think that all these biologists, geologists and anthropologists are trying to trick everyone? No. They have come to these conclusions based upon the evidence that they have found.

I don't have faith in evolution. I accept it as the most likely answer to how all life has become what it is today. Again, I think it is something like 97% of scientists accept that all life on this planet has evolved by process of natural selection over time. It is about as close to scientific fact as something can be without actually being a scientific fact.

Micro-evolution/adaptation of a species over time to survive in its environment? Yes, I can completely agree with. Macro-evolution? All life starting from a single cell organism, in which no one can answer where that single cell of life came from? No! It's impossible. The reason macro-evolution is being taught is because like everything else in this world, God is being taken out of it. We can't teach creation...it might offend 1 out of 10 who don't believe in God, so let's side with the minority. It's why our country and this world is going to trash. It's kind of scary...the children of Israel did the same thing...turned their backs on God over and over. Finally, He had enough of the disobedience and turned His back on them, and no longer were they His special people...that's when Jesus comes into the picture to offer the way that all mankind can have the opportunity to be saved from their sinfulness. I wonder frequently how much longer God is going to be long-suffering towards this perverse world that we live in.

 

[jbr82]

If it is evidently true, and god really is a straight shooter, then wouldn't Christianity be the one and only religion? The bible is pretty ambiguous on a lot of stuff. I don't agree with you that god is such a straight shooter. If it really were the one true religion, then why are there literally thousands of other religions that all make similar claims to Christianity? Wouldn't it just be obviously true and everyone would believe it, if it really were true?

I mean god's method to spreading his word is to have a everything in some ancient book that contains some pretty crazy, kooky stuff, and to prove that this book is true, he sends himself down to earth in human form to live for about 40 years in a barbaric, pre-technological era where most everybody is illiterate. He performs a handful of astonishing things in front of very few witnesses, and then sacrifices himself to himself to save us from his judgement.

Why didn't god send Jesus down to the Chinese, who were actually learning to read and write, and could have documented his exploits much more throughly?

I love this meme.

Christianity would be the only faith if it weren't for satan and his deceiving ways. That is another way satan deceives, capture, and destroy souls....by counterfeiting truth. Only things that are true/real can be counterfeit. Satan inspires all counterfeit faiths. Satan is smart and knows how to pull ppl away from their One and Only Creator.

 

[jbr82]

If earth and all in it and all the other ornaments in space happened without a Creator, blueprint, purpose...just happened.....then it should just be a free for all. Murder, stealing, lying, greed, sexual immorality would all be ok. Their would be no judge. Live it up however.

But...God not only should us the evil.....but He installed it in our conscious. Our conscious in this sense warns us when we are doing wrong or even right. That means we do have a Judge. A Judge gave us the ability to know what is right and wrong.

Man didn't make these laws up. It was given to man in the ancient days.

Now ppl can suppress the truth and ignore the conscious and and have it seared.

Ppl are committing evil all over the place as if their is no God, no law giver, no Judge. That's what a godless ppl....who is deceived by satan looks like

 

[jbr82]

Yeah Christianity has definitely been twisted to harm others before. Crusades, people justifying slavery, the Spanish Inquisition, Christian Rock n Roll, etc. are all pretty good examples of that.

Edit: my only point here is that people twisting religion to suit their own purposes is not exclusive to non-christian religions.

Yep..satan will take truth and twist it.

The crusades I think were mainly a christian ppl defending the holy place from a radical group.

Alot of ppl in ancient days sold their self into slavery to pay off a debt. God didn't promise a perfect world but to be with us..if we accept Him...and bring us to His perfect world.

 

[jbr82]

I've always found this comparison really interesting, especially when you consider that the Egyptians talked about Horus a few thousand years before Jesus.

One can make a fairly good argument that Christianity is nothing but the plagiarism of earlier religions with some Greek philosophy thrown in there. And then Islam blatantly plagiarized a whole lot from Christianity.

Ppl had false gods before Jesus came to earth its true. Rome even had their made up gods

Before Jesus came God spoke to His ppl through prophets and did many supernatural things. And it was prophesied many many many times (ex: book of Isaiah)that a Savior was coming and what His mission was. And it was fulfilled when Jesus came

 

[JacketVol]

So if you lived in Australia longer than 350 years ago and grew up past childhood, you were SOL? Doubt it.

In John, Jesus tells the Pharisees they did not know him before but now that they did and rejected him, they are without excuse. This speaks to me about those before Christ. God is the ultimate judge who is fair and just. He can handle it.

 

[jbr82]

If it is evidently true, and god really is a straight shooter, then wouldn't Christianity be the one and only religion? The bible is pretty ambiguous on a lot of stuff. I don't agree with you that god is such a straight shooter. If it really were the one true religion, then why are there literally thousands of other religions that all make similar claims to Christianity? Wouldn't it just be obviously true and everyone would believe it, if it really were true?

I mean god's method to spreading his word is to have a everything in some ancient book that contains some pretty crazy, kooky stuff, and to prove that this book is true, he sends himself down to earth in human form to live for about 40 years in a barbaric, pre-technological era where most everybody is illiterate. He performs a handful of astonishing things in front of very few witnesses, and then sacrifices himself to himself to save us from his judgement.

Why didn't god send Jesus down to the Chinese, who were actually learning to read and write, and could have documented his exploits much more throughly?

I love this meme.

God proved it was true when he came to earth...in human flesh...did miracles....resurrected from the dead after 3 days....all was prophesied thousands of yrs beforehand. And their were eye witnesses there and they carried the message around sharing and even.....listen to this.....was willing to die..which alot did..bc they knew it to be true

 

[JacketVol]

I think either you don't know what a straw man argument is, or you are yourself using one now. I'm leaning toward the latter considering you only addressed the first very first sentence and ignored the rest.

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent."

Like I said, I am sincere in asking for honest rebuttal. Not trying to belittle anyone.

Dude, it should be easy to see the difference in your posting and burger. I have seen many things in my life that have proven God and spiritual beings. I have seen Angels and other things that have scared me beyond words. People healed. I could go on about so much. This is my last post in thread. Faith in God can be difficult and many don't find or refuse to find it. Hope you really open your heart and mind to the possibilities instead of trying to be open how to argue against the possibilities. Darwin even doubted himself and was initially driven due to unfortunate events in his life. Faith works both ways. Have faith in God or in the explanations of human man.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

If earth and all in it and all the other ornaments in space happened without a Creator, blueprint, purpose...just happened.....then it should just be a free for all. Murder, stealing, lying, greed, sexual immorality would all be ok. Their would be no judge. Live it up however.

But...God not only should us the evil.....but He installed it in our conscious. Our conscious in this sense warns us when we are doing wrong or even right. That means we do have a Judge. A Judge gave us the ability to know what is right and wrong.

Man didn't make these laws up. It was given to man in the ancient days.

Now ppl can suppress the truth and ignore the conscious and and have it seared.

Ppl are committing evil all over the place as if their is no God, no law giver, no Judge. That's what a godless ppl....who is deceived by satan looks like

:hi:

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

One more thing I want to put in this discussion is the simple Webster's definition of creation:

creation
noun cre·a·tion \krē-ˈā-shən\
Simple Definition of creation
Popularity: Bottom 50% of words
: the act of making or producing something that did not exist before : the act of creating something
: something new that is made or produced : something that has been created
: everything in the world

To create is to make something from absolutely nothing. The simple definition alone disproves macro-evolution, because at some point something living had to be made from nothing. That point was when God created all things living in mature form so that they could reproduce/pollinate/etc and add more of their kind to the earth. Another simple thought...if we evolved, at what point did procreation begin to occur and women begin having babies? It's kind of strange that info is only found in the Bible, when God told Eve as part of her punishment for disobedience, that her pains would be multiplied in child birth.

The evidence for creation is overwhelming. If people would stop trying to make themselves be wiser than God, and pay attention to His infinite wisdom, this world would be a better and easier place to live.

 

[JDisThereThere]

Micro-evolution/adaptation of a species over time to survive in its environment? Yes, I can completely agree with. Macro-evolution? All life starting from a single cell organism, in which no one can answer where that single cell of life came from? No! It's impossible. The reason macro-evolution is being taught is because like everything else in this world, God is being taken out of it. We can't teach creation...it might offend 1 out of 10 who don't believe in God, so let's side with the minority. It's why our country and this world is going to trash. It's kind of scary...the children of Israel did the same thing...turned their backs on God over and over. Finally, He had enough of the disobedience and turned His back on them, and no longer were they His special people...that's when Jesus comes into the picture to offer the way that all mankind can have the opportunity to be saved from their sinfulness. I wonder frequently how much longer God is going to be long-suffering towards this perverse world that we live in.

Oh man! All those pesky, sneaky scientists are just trying to trick us all. lol:

Sorry OG, but the overwhelming evidence points to the fact that all life evolved from single-celled organisms. You realize that if you could disprove macroevolution, a nobel prize and fame/riches would await you. So by all means if you think perhaps you should try to prove it. You are right that we still don't know where those single celled organisms came about, but science is working on it.

Just out of curiosity, are you one who thinks that every word of the bible is true and should be taken literally? It seems to me that you are, but I'm just asking for clarification.

 

[JDisThereThere]

God proved it was true when he came to earth...in human flesh...did miracles....resurrected from the dead after 3 days....all was prophesied thousands of yrs beforehand. And their were eye witnesses there and they carried the message around sharing and even.....listen to this.....was willing to die..which alot did..bc they knew it to be true

Eyewitness testimony is the weakest type of scientific evidence. There has been quite a bit of study to show that people will change their story over time, see things that they want to see, etc.

Remember the telephone game that we all played in kindergarten. The one where everyone lines up in a line and the teacher whispers something in to the first kid's ear and the kids pass it down the line in whispers one at a time. What usually always happened? By the end of the line the message was different. I guess that would be earwitness testimony, but nonetheless, eyewitness testimony is no basis to establish truth.

 

[JDisThereThere]

Christianity would be the only faith if it weren't for satan and his deceiving ways. That is another way satan deceives, capture, and destroy souls....by counterfeiting truth. Only things that are true/real can be counterfeit. Satan inspires all counterfeit faiths. Satan is smart and knows how to pull ppl away from their One and Only Creator.

And who created Satan? Who has the ability to destroy Satan? Who is still apparently letting Satan run around tempting and conning people to sin?

God.

If a person does get deceived by Satan, would you say that person is more at fault than god? It's almost as if an older sibling is tricking a younger sibling into doing something naughty, and the parent, who has the ability to stop it, is just standing there watching and letting it happen.

 

[JDisThereThere]

One more thing I want to put in this discussion is the simple Webster's definition of creation:

creation
noun cre·a·tion \krē-ˈā-shən\
Simple Definition of creation
Popularity: Bottom 50% of words
: the act of making or producing something that did not exist before : the act of creating something
: something new that is made or produced : something that has been created
: everything in the world

To create is to make something from absolutely nothing. The simple definition alone disproves macro-evolution, because at some point something living had to be made from nothing. That point was when God created all things living in mature form so that they could reproduce/pollinate/etc and add more of their kind to the earth. Another simple thought...if we evolved, at what point did procreation begin to occur and women begin having babies? It's kind of strange that info is only found in the Bible, when God told Eve as part of her punishment for disobedience, that her pains would be multiplied in child birth.

The evidence for creation is overwhelming. If people would stop trying to make themselves be wiser than God, and pay attention to His infinite wisdom, this world would be a better and easier place to live.

First off, to create is not to make something from absolutely nothing. It is simply to bring something into existence.

And with regards to the sentence that I bolded.... See what I mean when I say that religion prevents people from asking questions. Why shouldn't we try to gain as much wisdom as possible? The only way to become wise is to not be afraid to ask questions about any and everything.

I'm not trying to be wiser than god (firstly because that is a bit absurd since I don't think god actually exists), but I am trying to be as wise and as knowledgeable as I can possibly be. I'm considering all the options. What's wrong that?

And don't say that I haven't considered Christianity or creationism because I have. I've thought long and hard about this stuff, and still study it quite a bit.

 

[jbr82]

And who created Satan? Who has the ability to destroy Satan? Who is still apparently letting Satan run around tempting and conning people to sin?

God.

If a person does get deceived by Satan, would you say that person is more at fault than god? It's almost as if an older sibling is tricking a younger sibling into doing something naughty, and the parent, who has the ability to stop it, is just standing there watching and letting it happen.

If speed limit says to do 50 and you do 65 and get pulled over who is to blame? The law/law giver or you?

Satan is already defeated when Jesus died and rose again. Forgiving those who accept His love and grace. The tomb is empty.

God has a purpose why he allows satan to rule the world.

I know this....in the dark...a light will be bright.

We would never know how much God really loves us and graceful He has been if it hadn't been for sin. He loves us while we are sinners.

God our Creator gives instruction. If we disobey then it's our fault. Who do you let rule your heart...the Spirit of truth (God) or the spirit of lies(satan)? It's our responsibility of which one we are trusting


Instead of being robots.....God gives us a choice

 

[jbr82]

Eyewitness testimony is the weakest type of scientific evidence. There has been quite a bit of study to show that people will change their story over time, see things that they want to see, etc.

Remember the telephone game that we all played in kindergarten. The one where everyone lines up in a line and the teacher whispers something in to the first kid's ear and the kids pass it down the line in whispers one at a time. What usually always happened? By the end of the line the message was different. I guess that would be earwitness testimony, but nonetheless, eyewitness testimony is no basis to establish truth.

With all due respect


Senseless.....having an eye witness sure helps more than guessing what happened.

Whoever seen a fish...with human legs.....with monkey arms.....with hair on its back....speaking spanish? Nobody. It never happened

 

[Vols4us]

And who created Satan? Who has the ability to destroy Satan? Who is still apparently letting Satan run around tempting and conning people to sin?

God.

If a person does get deceived by Satan, would you say that person is more at fault than god? It's almost as if an older sibling is tricking a younger sibling into doing something naughty, and the parent, who has the ability to stop it, is just standing there watching and letting it happen.

To the Christian the truth has been presented as has the choice been given to accept and acknowledge it in our lives. Satan chose not to accept and went his own way along with the fallen angels and all people created in God's image that reject his truth. When any of us go against what is right and good in his sight we are rebelling from authority. We are simply saying God is the ultimate authority. The difference is I accept him as such and confess/repent when I become rebellious or otherwise go against his ways. You do not acknowledge his existence, so that route is not available to you. Satan and crew rejected his authority and work against him by using the weaknesses of his created people. We Christians know that in God's time he will bring all of the evil to an end. Since you don't acknowledge him as Lord, you will not be in his presence. That is your choice to accept those consequences.

 

[FleeceItOut]

I was wondering if someone was going to ask me this.

First, I actually enjoy having these discussions/debates on the big philosophical questions? In a sense, it is a minor hobby of mine. I think it is a good thing to make other people think about stuff in a way that they may have not thought about it before, and I like when people make me think about things in a different way. That's how we make progress and learn new things. I hardly devote a whole lot of time or energy to it though, as I honestly don't do it that much. But I really do enjoy it.

Second and more importantly, I think even most religious people would agree with me the dangers that organized religion presents, and the atrocities that it has infected upon the world. Some examples are the crusades, the inquisition, the mistreatment of women and homosexuals, the suppression of advancing scientific knowledge, human sacrifices, the burning of witches, arranged marriages, jihadism, suicide bombings, endorsements of slavery, the child raping in the Catholic Church and subsequenct covering up of said child raping pedophiles, 9/11, the holocaust, etc., etc., etc. Think of how many wars religion has started. Think of the current religious civil war in the Middle East that has been raging for centuries, which could threaten the survival of the human race when you consider what might happen if some of those nutters obtain nuclear weapons. Long story short, I don't think religion is a force for good in the world. Not to say it hasn't done good things, but I think it has done more harm than good.

That's in the macro-sense of the effects of religion. I recognize that the vast majority of religious people are good people that are just as disgusted by the way people abuse religion and use it to do terrible things. If I had to guess, I would say all of you guys are good, decent people. I don't really know you, but I bet you are. My family is religious, and they are all great people. Yet in the minor-sense, I think that religion actually hurts good people as well. Let me explain. I think, and have actually witnessed, that religion can prevent people from asking important questions and attempting to expand their knowledge because in many ways religion claims that it has all the answers or at least all the answers that you need. It can prevent people from living life to the fullest because they think that they'll get an eternal afterlife. I think that it is not a good thing to tell (threaten) children that they will burn in hell if they don't believe this stuff. I think that is actually fairly immoral. Long story short here is, I think that religion is a thought controlling entity, and I think that controlling people's thoughts is bad.

It just seems to me, and I could be wrong, that you arent here for a "good" discussion about religion because that would include being open minded.

Instead Is seems that you are here to belittle Christianity and deter those that do believe from believing, which in my opinion, is immoral.

Also, some of the comparisons you've made in regards to Christianity are down right disrespectful, not only to believers but to those that have died to give you the right to practice religion freely, the freedom that you use to make fun of those who believe.

It's disresepctful to talk so recklessly about something that many people gave their lives for. The same religion that this country was founded on, the greatest country in the world was built on this belief that you deem to be mythology or a hoax.

I don't really want to get into an argument about this, just wanted to say my peace.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Oh man! All those pesky, sneaky scientists are just trying to trick us all. lol:

Sorry OG, but the overwhelming evidence points to the fact that all life evolved from single-celled organisms. You realize that if you could disprove macroevolution, a nobel prize and fame/riches would await you. So by all means if you think perhaps you should try to prove it. You are right that we still don't know where those single celled organisms came about, but science is working on it.

Just out of curiosity, are you one who thinks that every word of the bible is true and should be taken literally? It seems to me that you are, but I'm just asking for clarification.

Yes, I believe the entire bible written by 40+ men over an extremely long period of time, yet being in complete harmony, is all true. It's true because all of the writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit of God to write the words that are recorded for us. All of the language of the bible is not literal. There's actually a lot of figurative language, for example in the books of Daniel and Revelation. In the places where the language is figurative, you have to study to find out the message being given. Not everything that God gives us is milk and easy to digest. There's a lot of meat that takes time, patience, and study to fully understand. The more we study the more we find that God is telling us. Why? I think He wants us to want to continue learning about Him, Jesus, and His great divine plan for the entirety of our lives.