Freeze and Dabo negative religious recruit UT

[OGbabyaviVol]

How 'bout Genesis 1:26?

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth".

Who is us?

God the Father and God the Son (Jesus).

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Genesis 1:28 King James Version 1789(?)

"...and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth".

So, what is meant by replenish? What/who was here before?

Replenish comes from the Hebrew word that means "to fill or to be full". The English Standard Version uses "fill" instead of replenish.

 

[barrylee]

Again, can you prove any of this?

I only ask this because you seem so sure of yourself.

I am reading this all way behind the time this discussion was going on but of course there is no proof. It has always been written that we have free will. Make our own choices.

There is no way anyone on here is going to convince the other of their way of thinking. JMO

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I can understand your qualms with religion, I have qualms with religion too. What's your qualms with Christianity?

Mainly how judgmental it can be or at least some of those that practice it can be. Also I don't understand a God that supposed to be all about love would condem people for who they love.

 

[Big Sun]

God the Father and God the Son (Jesus).

thanks for the reply. doesn't Genesis and the Old Testament predate the life and times of Jesus?

 

[Big Sun]

Replenish comes from the Hebrew word that means "to fill or to be full". The English Standard Version uses "fill" instead of replenish.

yeah, i've read that translation before. i see the word replenish is used again in Genesis 9:1. interesting stuff.

"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth".

 

[InVOLuntary]

Mainly how judgmental it can be or at least some of those that practice it can be. Also I don't understand a God that supposed to be all about love would condem people for who they love.

Are you referring to homosexuality?

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Are you referring to homosexuality?

Yes. While I don't understand it nor do I know anyone who is, God condemning it something that doesn't make sense to me. I've read a few things that says some biblical scholars say that in some places where homosexuality is mentioned, that it's referring to rape. And that loving homosexual relationships may not have existed in biblical time. I never looked into it personally though.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

yeah, i've read that translation before. i see the word replenish is used again in Genesis 9:1. interesting stuff.

"And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth".

Well biblically, there was only around 8 people in the world after the flood so they needed to get to business and make babies.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

thanks for the reply. doesn't Genesis and the Old Testament predate the life and times of Jesus?

Biblically, Jesus always existed. Even before he was 'born' on earth.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Yes. While I don't understand it nor do I know anyone who is, God condemning it something that doesn't make sense to me. I've read a few things that says some biblical scholars say that in some places where homosexuality is mentioned, that it's referring to rape. And that loving homosexual relationships may not have existed in biblical time. I never looked into it personally though.

That's a complicated issue and I don't think it's as a black and white issue as some Christians/churches would try to make it. All I can tell you is how I feel about it. I don't think homosexuality is a good thing. However Jesus teaches that judging people is not my job. Therefore I don't judge or condem those people. I treat those people as I would anyone else. They have to answer for any sins as do I. As far as private businesses they have the right to serve anyone they want. If they feel it violates their relationship with God, it's well within their rights without fear of government intervention or lawsuit to not do something they feel is sinful. When I personally struggle with something like this, I try to imagine what Jesus would do. I usually get clarity.

Finally, I don't think you should judge Christianity by how others practice their faith. I think ideally Jesus wants a personal relationship with each of us. If people would focus on that personal relationship instead of focusing on religion, I think people's lives would be more enriched. While I do attend church because it allows me to socialize with like minded people and it allows me to understand others perspectives and I learn things, I don't think church is mandatory to becoming a good Christian.

This is all just my opinion and how I look at things.

 

[jbr82]

Mainly how judgmental it can be or at least some of those that practice it can be. Also I don't understand a God that supposed to be all about love would condem people for who they love.

Read these in order about our loving Creator and what He gave. Sadly ppl CHOOSE to reject His free grace and don't want Him. He will honor whatever decision we make.


1. Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


2. John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


3. Romans 3:25
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.


4. Romans 5:8-11
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.


5. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

His resurrection proved He was God and He destroyed sin, death, and satan. We can trust Him that He is alive and He forgave us.

Sadly ppl will reject which is prophesied.....

John 3:18-21
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

[jbr82]

That's a complicated issue and I don't think it's as a black and white issue as some Christians/churches would try to make it. All I can tell you is how I feel about it. I don't think homosexuality is a good thing. However Jesus teaches that judging people is not my job. Therefore I don't judge or condem those people. I treat those people as I would anyone else. They have to answer for any sins as do I. As far as private businesses they have the right to serve anyone they want. If they feel it violates their relationship with God, it's well within their rights without fear of government intervention or lawsuit to not do something they feel is sinful. When I personally struggle with something like this, I try to imagine what Jesus would do. I usually get clarity.

Finally, I don't think you should judge Christianity by how others practice their faith. I think ideally Jesus wants a personal relationship with each of us. If people would focus on that personal relationship instead of focusing on religion, I think people's lives would be more enriched. While I do attend church because it allows me to socialize with like minded people and it allows me to understand others perspectives and I learn things, I don't think church is mandatory to becoming a good Christian.

This is all just my opinion and how I look at things.

We judge everyday...rather something is or is not God's will/instruction in our own lives. Now if someone is telling us that evil is good then they should be corrected. Telling truth gracefully is an act of love. We would be partially responsible if we withhold truth from someone living in error

If the apostle paul called homosexuality a sin in chapter 1 of Romans then it's sin.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
"It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God."

To those of us strugglin with any sin...Jesus wants to cleanse and renew our thinking to make us new person

 

[vol9799]

thanks for the reply. doesn't Genesis and the Old Testament predate the life and times of Jesus?

John 1:1-18 answers your question.

 

[JBondVol]

How 'bout Genesis 1:26?

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth".

Who is us?

Us is the subject of the statement, translated as "God", but the Hebrew word used here and many other times in the OT is Elohim, which literally translates as "gods", plural.

We know that it can't be Jehovah and Jesus because the Father and Son are One. They don't carry on conversations with each other.

 

[vol9799]

Mainly how judgmental it can be or at least some of those that practice it can be. Also I don't understand a God that supposed to be all about love would condem people for who they love.

God's love for us caused Him to sacrifice His own perfect son, a part of Himself, so that if we so choose, we can be reconciled to Him in paradise for eternity.

He made us and gave us everything. Mankind turned our back on Him. Despite that, He gives us another chance for something we don't deserve. That is love.

Equating our emotions and emotional responses to fleshly desire to that kind of love is a misuse of the concept of love. If we love someone, are we concerned about their temporary happiness or their eternal happiness?

Again, He made us. He gave us everything good that we have (James 1). When man brought sin into the world, He then made the ultimate sacrifice (John 15:13) to give us another chance at Heaven. Despite all of this, are we now arguing that God doesn't have the right to set the parameters for how we must conduct ourselves in order to take advantage of His grace?

God does not condemn us. We condemn ourselves by refusing him. We all sin (Rom 3:23) and we all deserve hell (Rom 6:23). The only difference between those who are saved and those who are lost is that the saved realize that they're lost without Him and choose to be obedient to His Word (not perfectly, but in accordance with his first and second laws of pardon, Acts 2:1-41 etc & I John 1).

If someone knows the consequence of a life of sin and they share that knowledge with someone they care about, is that being judgmental or loving? I think where things break down is that we fail at "speaking the truth in love" (Eph 4:15) and it comes across as an attack. Strong emotions often cause people to come across in ways they don't mean to, but regardless of how they come across, it doesn't change the veracity of the message. That is either true or false, irrespective of how it's communicated.

To reject the message because of how a fallible person presents it, is to essentially "throw the baby out with the bath water." They are not excused from the responsibility of presenting it in a more loving manner, but neither am I excused from accepting the truth just because I don't like how it sounds.

 

[vol9799]

Us is the subject of the statement, translated as "God", but the Hebrew word used here and many other times in the OT is Elohim, which literally translates as "gods", plural.

We know that it can't be Jehovah and Jesus because the Father and Son are One. They don't carry on conversations with each other.

If not the Father, then whom was Jesus praying to in John 17? Whom did He pray to on Peter's behalf as recorded in Luke 22:31?

 

[JBondVol]

If not the Father, then whom was Jesus praying to in John 17? Whom did He pray to on Peter's behalf as recorded in Luke 22:31?

I assume he was praying to the Father as he was separated from him at the time. But in the Eden story, that wouldn't have been the case. IOW, if the Trinity was as "One", who is the plural "gods"? According to the more ancient writings of the Summerians, which was the origin of the eden story, the Elohim were a race of beings they called the Annunaki, which came to earth from the heavens and created man in their image.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

That's a complicated issue and I don't think it's as a black and white issue as some Christians/churches would try to make it. All I can tell you is how I feel about it. I don't think homosexuality is a good thing. However Jesus teaches that judging people is not my job. Therefore I don't judge or condem those people. I treat those people as I would anyone else. They have to answer for any sins as do I. As far as private businesses they have the right to serve anyone they want. If they feel it violates their relationship with God, it's well within their rights without fear of government intervention or lawsuit to not do something they feel is sinful. When I personally struggle with something like this, I try to imagine what Jesus would do. I usually get clarity.

Finally, I don't think you should judge Christianity by how others practice their faith. I think ideally Jesus wants a personal relationship with each of us. If people would focus on that personal relationship instead of focusing on religion, I think people's lives would be more enriched. While I do attend church because it allows me to socialize with like minded people and it allows me to understand others perspectives and I learn things, I don't think church is mandatory to becoming a good Christian.

This is all just my opinion and how I look at things.

Thanks for the honest response. I agree about focusing on ones personal relationship rather than religion.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Yes. While I don't understand it nor do I know anyone who is, God condemning it something that doesn't make sense to me. I've read a few things that says some biblical scholars say that in some places where homosexuality is mentioned, that it's referring to rape. And that loving homosexual relationships may not have existed in biblical time. I never looked into it personally though.

God condemns homosexuality, because it was never His plan. He made man and woman. In Genesis 2:24, He says that man shall leave his mother and father, and cleave to his wife, and the 2 shall become one flesh. He didn't make man and man, or woman and woman. Before anyone takes my stance the wrong way, I am not being judgmental or hating. God is the one judging through His scriptures. Love the person, but hate the sin. I have 2 people in my extended family and clients who are homosexuals...I love each person, but hate their choice to sin against God willfully.

Here are some scriptures where God condemns it:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. - 1 Timothy 1:8-11

Also, read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19. God destroyed those cities because of the sin of homosexuality. Jude 7 speaks of it as being an "unnatural desire".

The following scripture from Romans is a little long; however, I wanted to include it, because it includes a few things that have been mentioned earlier in this thread. Verses 26 and 27 is where Paul speaks about homosexuality:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. - Romans 1:18-28

Once again, I re-emphasize...I don't hate people who are homosexuals. I love them and especially their souls. I hate the sin, because it is clear from the scriptures that God hates it, as He hates all sin...yes, that includes my sin.

 

[KoachKletus]

Don't really care about the god stuff, but from an evolutionary standpoint, homosexuality occurs in nature more as a quirk and not as a means to propagate a species with one exception being gastropods. Perhaps, homosexuality is a genetic trait still existing in humans from a particular branch of the evolutionary tree.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

thanks for the reply. doesn't Genesis and the Old Testament predate the life and times of Jesus?

A poster above mentioned the scripture John 1:1-18. Read it. The Word is Jesus. God the Son was present from the very beginning with God the Father. That's what makes it even more humbling that Jesus came to this wicked earth to die for our sins. He was in heaven with the Father, and gave it up for a finite amount of time to come here and suffer the cruelest death, being scourged and hung on a cross after living a sinless life, so that we can have a hope of heaven through obedience to His gospel and forgiveness of our sins. How awesome!

I know someone mentioned about Jesus and God being one in the same, so how could God make man in our image. The implication was that humans must have already been present. That's not true. God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit do make up the Trinity, and yes, they are one, but are 3 separate entities. They are one, because they have the exact same thoughts...they are harmonious with each other. We see that at Jesus' baptism:

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Here, we see the 3 separate entities present in different forms: the Son in the flesh, the Spirit descending as a dove, and the Father's voice heard as He speaks from heaven.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

I assume he was praying to the Father as he was separated from him at the time. But in the Eden story, that wouldn't have been the case. IOW, if the Trinity was as "One", who is the plural "gods"? According to the more ancient writings of the Summerians, which was the origin of the eden story, the Elohim were a race of beings they called the Annunaki, which came to earth from the heavens and created man in their image.

Your first sentence answers your own question...if Jesus was separated from the Father during His time on earth, then they had to be 2 separate entities. If they were 2 separate entities at that time, then they were separate when they created this world, they are separate entities now, and always will be separate entities. We read after His ascension back to heaven, that He is seated at the right hand of God, the Father, which once again shows they are 2 separate entities. The Trinity is one of those things that s hard for the human mind to wrap itself around...3 separate entities who are in complete harmony, thus making them one.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

God condemns homosexuality, because it was never His plan. He made man and woman. In Genesis 2:24, He says that man shall leave his mother and father, and cleave to his wife, and the 2 shall become one flesh. He didn't make man and man, or woman and woman. Before anyone takes my stance the wrong way, I am not being judgmental or hating. God is the one judging through His scriptures. Love the person, but hate the sin. I have 2 people in my extended family and clients who are homosexuals...I love each person, but hate their choice to sin against God willfully.

Here are some scriptures where God condemns it:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. - 1 Timothy 1:8-11

Also, read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19. God destroyed those cities because of the sin of homosexuality. Jude 7 speaks of it as being an "unnatural desire".

The following scripture from Romans is a little long; however, I wanted to include it, because it includes a few things that have been mentioned earlier in this thread. Verses 26 and 27 is where Paul speaks about homosexuality:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. - Romans 1:18-28

Once again, I re-emphasize...I don't hate people who are homosexuals. I love them and especially their souls. I hate the sin, because it is clear from the scriptures that God hates it, as He hates all sin...yes, that includes my sin.

Sodom and Gomorrah had many sins. They were consumed by greed and lust and they were homosexual rapist. That why they were destroyed. It's also why some theologians are starting to think when the bible talks about homosexuality being wrong it's referring to homosexual rape. Some believe a loving homosexual relationship may not have existed during those times. It also leaves out women having homosexual relationships.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Sodom and Gomorrah had many sins. They were consumed by greed and lust and they were homosexual rapist. That why they were destroyed. It's also why some theologians are starting to think when the bible talks about homosexuality being wrong it's referring to homosexual rape. Some believe a loving homosexual relationship may not have existed during those times. It also leaves out women having homosexual relationships.

I believe it's easy to infer that if God hates men having homosexual relationships, then He hates women having them. If He didn't, then He would be a God that shows partiality. Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11, Galatians 2:6, and Colossians 3:25 tells us that God shows no partiality. Also, the scripture that I quoted from Romans in my prior post clearly includes women in it.