Freeze and Dabo negative religious recruit UT

[Grey_pilgrim]

I believe it's easy to infer that if God hates men having homosexual relationships, then He hates women having them. If He didn't, then He would be a God that shows partiality. Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11, Galatians 2:6, and Colossians 3:25 tells us that God shows no partiality. Also, the scripture that I quoted from Romans in my prior post clearly includes women in it.

Infer what you will. Anytime the bible talks about Sodomites it's talking about homosexual rape. And to the part about women, it doesn't necessarily call it a sin just says its contrary to nature. Which could speak more to their inability to procreate.

Jesus was obviously ok with showing affection towards men since John was called the disciple he loved and he lay his head on his chest. Most men today aren't comfortable with laying their head on another mans breast. By no means am I saying Jesus was gay, just that he had no problem with a man showing love towards another man.

 

[InVOLuntary]

We judge everyday...rather something is or is not God's will/instruction in our own lives. Now if someone is telling us that evil is good then they should be corrected. Telling truth gracefully is an act of love. We would be partially responsible if we withhold truth from someone living in error

If the apostle paul called homosexuality a sin in chapter 1 of Romans then it's sin.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
"It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God."

To those of us strugglin with any sin...Jesus wants to cleanse and renew our thinking to make us new person

You're exactly right. I told him I thought homosexuality was a sin. I also think it's sinful to judge someone. It is not a Christian's responsibility to judge someone's sins. My obligation is to lead people to Christ by showing God's love and how He'd like each of us to treat one another, not standing at the door refusing admittance by judging.

 

[JBondVol]

Your first sentence answers your own question...if Jesus was separated from the Father during His time on earth, then they had to be 2 separate entities. If they were 2 separate entities at that time, then they were separate when they created this world, they are separate entities now, and always will be separate entities. We read after His ascension back to heaven, that He is seated at the right hand of God, the Father, which once again shows they are 2 separate entities. The Trinity is one of those things that s hard for the human mind to wrap itself around...3 separate entities who are in complete harmony, thus making them one.

I guess I could buy that. Except that it's hard to picture the 3 persons of the Trinity standing there in the garden of eden conversing with their new creation. I mean did they speak in unison or take turns speaking? These kind of details matter IMO.

But most importantly, I've noted numerous times in this thread the fact that many of the Biblical stories, including the creation/eden story, were ripped off from much earlier writings by earlier civilizations. And while this is easily verifiable, I've yet to see anyone address or acknowledge it. If the 3 persons standing there in the garden were really the authors of all the scriptures, why did they feel the need to plagiarize earlier works?

How long will we ignore this elephant in the room?

 

[Vol464]

God condemns homosexuality, because it was never His plan. He made man and woman. In Genesis 2:24, He says that man shall leave his mother and father, and cleave to his wife, and the 2 shall become one flesh. He didn't make man and man, or woman and woman. Before anyone takes my stance the wrong way, I am not being judgmental or hating. God is the one judging through His scriptures. Love the person, but hate the sin. I have 2 people in my extended family and clients who are homosexuals...I love each person, but hate their choice to sin against God willfully.

Here are some scriptures where God condemns it:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. - 1 Timothy 1:8-11

Also, read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19. God destroyed those cities because of the sin of homosexuality. Jude 7 speaks of it as being an "unnatural desire".

The following scripture from Romans is a little long; however, I wanted to include it, because it includes a few things that have been mentioned earlier in this thread. Verses 26 and 27 is where Paul speaks about homosexuality:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. - Romans 1:18-28

Once again, I re-emphasize...I don't hate people who are homosexuals. I love them and especially their souls. I hate the sin, because it is clear from the scriptures that God hates it, as He hates all sin...yes, that includes my sin.

Well said. It is no different than any other unrepentant sin.

 

[Vols4us]

I guess I could buy that. Except that it's hard to picture the 3 persons of the Trinity standing there in the garden of eden conversing with their new creation. I mean did they speak in unison or take turns speaking? These kind of details matter IMO.

But most importantly, I've noted numerous times in this thread the fact that many of the Biblical stories, including the creation/eden story, were ripped off from much earlier writings by earlier civilizations. And while this is easily verifiable, I've yet to see anyone address or acknowledge it. If the 3 persons standing there in the garden were really the authors of all the scriptures, why did they feel the need to plagiarize earlier works?

How long will we ignore this elephant in the room?

What elephant? Once again stating legends, myths, and unproven stories as facts? My goodness, you have nothing to base a claim like that on other than the agenda driven arguments of others that claim they have the answers. The Bible has recorded witnesses statements that can be traced through genealogy and other means. As believers we test the tenets of the faith and find them true, yet, you have no means to test anything of these other civilizations and claim them true.

You are heading out on roads that lead to dead ends as the prodigal. If the Bible is wrong, prove it with facts not conjecture and fantasies. People have been trying to do that for centuries. Have at it.

The word trinity deserves your study, since the word is not used in the Bible. It is a subject that has confounded non-believers and believers alike for years. Dig in yourself. Believers are faced with the same need to understand. There are many analogies used to describe the three persons in one. Look them up and decide for yourself.

 

[Vols4us]

Don't really care about the god stuff, but from an evolutionary standpoint, homosexuality occurs in nature more as a quirk and not as a means to propagate a species with one exception being gastropods. Perhaps, homosexuality is a genetic trait still existing in humans from a particular branch of the evolutionary tree.

People can be predisposed to many sexual sins; adulterers, homosexuals, pedophiles, those practicing bestiality, etc. through whatever reasons. Mutations occur in the genes with every succeeding generation or it can come from desired or undesired learned behavior. The different between man and animal is the ability to reason God gave us. Just because I find another person attractive and want to have sex with them, it may not be the wise thing to do. The reason is what separates the supposed natural act. The homosexual believer is admonished not to commit the act as it is an affront to the Creator, just like many other sins. No worse, no better. It is true in any sin. I may feel that I should kill every person that I hate for whatever reason. Should I then do it because I naturally hate? We know the the answer.

 

[jbr82]

Infer what you will. Anytime the bible talks about Sodomites it's talking about homosexual rape. And to the part about women, it doesn't necessarily call it a sin just says its contrary to nature. Which could speak more to their inability to procreate.

Jesus was obviously ok with showing affection towards men since John was called the disciple he loved and he lay his head on his chest. Most men today aren't comfortable with laying their head on another mans breast. By no means am I saying Jesus was gay, just that he had no problem with a man showing love towards another man.

A man can love another man. Like a brother, father or friend. Thats not homosex. Same for women

Homosex is when samesex start having passion for one another and use each others body for physical sexual pleasure


That's the difference

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

...

But most importantly, I've noted numerous times in this thread the fact that many of the Biblical stories, including the creation/eden story, were ripped off from much earlier writings by earlier civilizations. And while this is easily verifiable, I've yet to see anyone address or acknowledge it. ...

How long will we ignore this elephant in the room?

I am obviously a lurker .. more than a poster. All the stories point to a common original real event. Which is real and which is fake. The burden is to produce EVIDENCE for your conviction. I, personally, am going with Jesus as my authority .. he said the story was real (Matthew 19, et. al.).

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Infer what you will. Anytime the bible talks about Sodomites it's talking about homosexual rape. And to the part about women, it doesn't necessarily call it a sin just says its contrary to nature. Which could speak more to their inability to procreate.

Jesus was obviously ok with showing affection towards men since John was called the disciple he loved and he lay his head on his chest. Most men today aren't comfortable with laying their head on another mans breast. By no means am I saying Jesus was gay, just that he had no problem with a man showing love towards another man.

Smh. You didn't read the Romans scripture that I quoted to you. Yes, God specifically says it's a sin. In the earlier verses He talked about unrighteousness. Unrighteousness is sin. In the last verse that I quoted He said it was an act of shame and that those acts were things that ought not to be done. One of the other scriptures said that homosexuals will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven. It's crystal clear that God sees homosexuality as a sin. There absolutely zero way to twist it any other way.

Have you ever laid your head on your dad's chest when needing to be consoled? Your brother, if you have one? Jesus loved his disciples like brothers. After all they were His and God's creation, and they loved Him. One of them that was very close to Him laying his head on Jesus' chest does not remotely condone anything related to homosexuality.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

A man can love another man. Like a brother, father or friend. Thats not homosex. Same for women

Homosex is when samesex start having passion for one another and use each others body for physical sexual pleasure


That's the difference

:hi:

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

A man can love another man. Like a brother, father or friend. Thats not homosex. Same for women

Homosex is when samesex start having passion for one another and use each others body for physical sexual pleasure


That's the difference

Greeks had 4 specific words for love ... the NT in koine Greek ... never uses 'eros' - the sexual love. Most of the references in the NT use the word 'agape' which is ... the highest form of love, to act towards a person - to unconditionally have the best interest of someone, etc.
Some think the word agape is passion free. While the other 3 words all involve emotion and passion.

 

[JBondVol]

What elephant? Once again stating legends, myths, and unproven stories as facts? My goodness, you have nothing to base a claim like that on other than the agenda driven arguments of others that claim they have the answers. The Bible has recorded witnesses statements that can be traced through genealogy and other means. As believers we test the tenets of the faith and find them true, yet, you have no means to test anything of these other civilizations and claim them true.

Are you saying the Sumerian civilization was a myth or legend, or that they wrote about the creation of man is a myth or legend? Because it really doesn't matter if their creation story itself is myth or legend, considering that it predated the Torah by as much as 2,000 years. They also used some of the same metaphors and symbolism used in the Genesis account such as the tree of life, the removal of the rib, and the garden itself. Except their version of the story is much more detailed and specific, and there was no mention of Jehovah or Jesus. So what exactly are you claiming is unproven here?

You are heading out on roads that lead to dead ends as the prodigal. If the Bible is wrong, prove it with facts not conjecture and fantasies. People have been trying to do that for centuries. Have at it.

Again, where is conjecture in my posting? The Sumerian epic of creation exists. It just does, its a fact. It's also a fact that it predates the writing of the Torah. Therefore, it is rational to conclude the Genesis account was derived from the earlier Sumerian account. It is fantasy to conclude otherwise IMO. If you wish to disprove any of the above facts, you have at it.

The word trinity deserves your study, since the word is not used in the Bible. It is a subject that has confounded non-believers and believers alike for years. Dig in yourself. Believers are faced with the same need to understand. There are many analogies used to describe the three persons in one. Look them up and decide for yourself.

I realize the word Trinity is never used in the Bible, but it has been used numerous times in this thread to "prove" certain points, so I used the term to argue against those points. And I don't need to look it up. I assure you I am as well versed in the scriptures as anyone posting here. From the Hebrew, Chaldean and Greek, to King James and beyond.

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

Are you saying the Sumerian civilization was a myth or legend, or that they wrote about the creation of man is a myth or legend? Because it really doesn't matter if their creation story itself is myth or legend, considering that it predated the Torah by as much as 2,000 years. They also used some of the same metaphors and symbolism used in the Genesis account such as the tree of life, the removal of the rib, and the garden itself. Except their version of the story is much more detailed and specific, and there was no mention of Jehovah or Jesus. So what exactly are you claiming is unproven here?

I am saying both stories point to a real original event.

Predates? The time of writing does not indicate the origin or the source of the story.

Real question is ... how much confidence do you have in Jesus as an authority? Is he THE Lord, a liar, or a lunatic? This IS a trick question...so be careful where you put your neck. :^)

 

[JBondVol]

I am saying both stories point to a real original event.

I agree.

Predates? The time of writing does not indicate the origin or the source of the story.

Maybe, but that doesn't matter in this context. It stands to reason that the Sumerians didn't get their story from the Bible. It is accepted as fact, even by the church, that the Torah was written around 1200-1300 BC, several thousand years after the events supposedly took place. The Sumerian epic was written around 3,000 BC. If one of these is pure mythology and the other is fact, why would anyone assume the later version is true, when it actually uses some of the same terminology as the older one?

Real question is ... how much confidence do you have in Jesus as an authority? Is he THE Lord, a liar, or a lunatic? This IS a trick question...so be careful where you put your neck. :^)

I like Jesus, he's a cool dude in my book. I like lots of the OT characters as well. But I am confident they are stories, myth, tales based on older tales. That's all.

 

[mommasvol]

A lot of vain babbling going on here, absolute truth You must be born again if you are not you are going to hell period

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

I like Jesus, he's a cool dude in my book. I like lots of the OT characters as well. But I am confident they are stories, myth, tales based on older tales. That's all.

Cool dude is not possible. He claimed he was GOD. So IMHO your only options are ... 1) he told the truth, 2) he lied, or 3) he is either delusional or mentally unstable.

He claimed he could save people and provide them with an eternal home. A good man or cool dude would not make a promise he cannot keep. Or, if he did not tell the truth .. then he is worse than a liar... for he asked people to entrust their eternal soul to his care. Or ... he is delusional ... in which case you can't trust anything he says.
BUT cool dude is not an option ... Jesus did not give people that option. He claimed he was God, the truth, the life. Tough choices. Best wishes.

 

[JBondVol]

Cool dude is not possible. He claimed he was GOD. So IMHO your only options are ... 1) he told the truth, 2) he lied, or 3) he is either delusional or mentally unstable.

He claimed he could save people and provide them with an eternal home. A good man or cool dude would not make a promise he cannot keep. Or, if he did not tell the truth .. then he is worse than a liar... for he asked people to entrust their eternal soul to his care. Or ... he is delusional ... in which case you can't trust anything he says.
BUT cool dude is not an option ... Jesus did not give people that option. He claimed he was God, the truth, the life. Tough choices. Best wishes.

Jesus made no such claims. Jesus didn't pen the words of NT, other men did. It is THEIR claim of what THEY witnessed.

Aren't you putting more faith in those men than you are in Jesus?

 

[FleeceItOut]

I would hate to think this is all there is. That this short time I have on this miserable Earth is it.

I eventually die and there is nothing after that.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Jesus also gave this verse to use for those trying to teach the gospel, but as hard as they try, those they are trying to teach could care less.

"Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you. - Matthew 7:6

I think I will put it to use, as God's inspired words seem to be falling on deaf ears, blind eyes, and calloused hearts in this thread.

 

[FleeceItOut]

Jesus also gave this verse to use for those trying to teach the gospel, but as hard as they try, those they are trying to teach could care less.

"Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you. - Matthew 7:6

I think I will put it to use, as God's inspired words seem to be falling on deaf ears, blind eyes, and calloused hearts in this thread.

I commend your effort mate.

 

[Big Sun]

But most importantly, I've noted numerous times in this thread the fact that many of the Biblical stories, including the creation/eden story, were ripped off from much earlier writings by earlier civilizations. And while this is easily verifiable, I've yet to see anyone address or acknowledge it.

Old stories retold, fershure.

Father, Mother, Son
Osiris, Isis, Horus
Thoth, Ma'at, Anubis
Nimrod, Arimas, Tammuz

There are lots of others from what i have read. They represent Thoughts, Emotions, and Actions.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit appears to remove or at least downplay the the Mother, the Sacred Feminine, the emotional aspect of the threefold nature of consciousness. It's all about consciousness. The Bible is full of allegorical tales regarding the Self. It's about consciousness/psychology. The goal is to unify these three aspects of consciousness such that as we think, so we feel, and so we act. This is what the mystery traditions (Kabbalah, Freemasonry, etc.) attempt to do.

Christ is within. It is an awakened state of consciousness available to us all. There is no external savior. Never has been and never will be. If you can dupe someone into believing that then you have them under control. Religion is used for control.

This is what i have come to know from Southern Baptism as a youth to now exploring the mystery traditions that have existed for millennium. It's great fun, chasing the truth.

Astrotheology is good to know as well. Helps understand the timing of all of our co-opted holydays.

FYI - this post isn't directed at you JBondVol as an individual, but toward the community as a whole.

Keep it real.

 

[Big Sun]

I would hate to think this is all there is. That this short time I have on this miserable Earth is it.

I eventually die and there is nothing after that.

I think that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience. Your soul will remain.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

Smh. You didn't read the Romans scripture that I quoted to you. Yes, God specifically says it's a sin. In the earlier verses He talked about unrighteousness. Unrighteousness is sin. In the last verse that I quoted He said it was an act of shame and that those acts were things that ought not to be done. One of the other scriptures said that homosexuals will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven. It's crystal clear that God sees homosexuality as a sin. There absolutely zero way to twist it any other way.

Have you ever laid your head on your dad's chest when needing to be consoled? Your brother, if you have one? Jesus loved his disciples like brothers. After all they were His and God's creation, and they loved Him. One of them that was very close to Him laying his head on Jesus' chest does not remotely condone anything related to homosexuality.

I don't see it as clearly as you do, but I won't argue with you over it. I do think it's interesting that you used a version of the bible that says homosexuality. The KJV never uses that word. The passage from 1 Corinthians you used says effeminate. Which I thought to mean to be feminine. But again I would never judge two adults for loving each other or for anything else that's nonviolent and harms no one. And there's a lot of sins in those verses but people like to pick what they want to out of it.

 

[jbr82]

Greeks had 4 specific words for love ... the NT in koine Greek ... never uses 'eros' - the sexual love. Most of the references in the NT use the word 'agape' which is ... the highest form of love, to act towards a person - to unconditionally have the best interest of someone, etc.
Some think the word agape is passion free. While the other 3 words all involve emotion and passion.

A male can love another male with passion. Friendship

But if a man passionately wants to kiss a man in the mouth and bend him over for pleasure that is unnatural and isn't right. Same for women

 

[JBondVol]

Old stories retold, fershure.

Father, Mother, Son
Osiris, Isis, Horus
Thoth, Ma'at, Anubis
Nimrod, Arimas, Tammuz

There are lots of others from what i have read. They represent Thoughts, Emotions, and Actions.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit appears to remove or at least downplay the the Mother, the Sacred Feminine, the emotional aspect of the threefold nature of consciousness. It's all about consciousness. The Bible is full of allegorical tales regarding the Self. It's about consciousness/psychology. The goal is to unify these three aspects of consciousness such that as we think, so we feel, and so we act. This is what the mystery traditions (Kabbalah, Freemasonry, etc.) attempt to do.

Christ is within. It is an awakened state of consciousness available to us all. There is no external savior. Never has been and never will be. If you can dupe someone into believing that then you have them under control. Religion is used for control.

This is what i have come to know from Southern Baptism as a youth to now exploring the mystery traditions that have existed for millennium. It's great fun, chasing the truth.

Astrotheology is good to know as well. Helps understand the timing of all of our co-opted holydays.

FYI - this post isn't directed at you JBondVol as an individual, but toward the community as a whole.

Keep it real.

:clapping: Bravo! Someone gets it. Thank you.