FSU and Miami to SEC—Just a hunch

#53
#53
Good gracious, A&M and Mizzou haven't played a down yet of SEC football and here we are again talking about 2 more teams.
 
#55
#55
crusse10 said:
Legitimacy of the basketball league is worth bringing in 2 of the best basketball schools of all time, even if they are from the same market.
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Worth is only measured in dollars. Bringing in UNC would increase per team revenue. Bringing in UNC and Duke would reduce it.

It doesn't matter how much legitimacy they would provide to SEC basketball. From a fan perspective it would be awesome. From a balance sheet perspective it would be counterproductive.
 
#57
#57
bamawriter said:
Worth is only measured in dollars. Bringing in UNC would increase per team revenue. Bringing in UNC and Duke would reduce it.

It doesn't matter how much legitimacy they would provide to SEC basketball. From a fan perspective it would be awesome. From a balance sheet perspective it would be counterproductive.
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I disagree. Adding the 2 adds national television all basketball season for 2 separate teams.
 
#58
#58
crusse10 said:
I disagree. Adding the 2 adds national television all basketball season for 2 separate teams.
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You are correct, it would lead to more games on national TV. ESPN would probably want to up the number of games carried on its primary networks, and would thus be willing to spend more money on those games. But they won't be willing to spend enough money to increase per team revenue.

Look at it this way (and keep in mind that football is always worth more money, no matter how good the basketball teams are):

Now that A&M and Mizzou, are in the conference let's say that ESPN/CBS and the SEC renegotiate a media rights deal worth $308 million a year, or $22 million per team. That number represents a rough average of what each team is worth per year. For instance, Florida is worth more than $22 million, while Mississippi State is worth less.

In order to justify bringing in a team, that team's media rights value must be more than $22 million per year. It isn't worth the trouble if the revenue winds up being the same.

The state of North Carolina has several valuable media markets, and both UNC and Duke have loyal followings. However, they would both have to be worth more than $22 million per year for the SEC to consider bringing them in. Given that the ACC's new media rights deal only pays $17 mill per school (and that include all third tier rights, which the SEC members get to keep), there is no way that the media markets in North Carolina can be worth more than $44 million per year. Are they worth $22 million? Probably. But not double.
 
#59
#59
bamawriter said:
Expansion isn't about the quality of the competition, it's about market share. Yes, a higher profile in basketball would generate more TV revenue, but not enough to increase the per team revenue. That's what it would take to justify bringing in two teams from the same market.
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The both of them would bring in what, an extra 3.5 million sets? Raleigh and Charlote are both larger than every SEC market but Atlanta, and far, FAR larger than every other SEC market except Nashville. If SEC network revenue works similarly at all to the Big Ten network, that would mean serious cashola regardless of how good at football UNC or Dook are.

VolsSportsFan said:
Good gracious, A&M and Mizzou haven't played a down yet of SEC football and here we are again talking about 2 more teams.
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Conference expansion never stopped, the board just stopped talking about it for a little while. No way Big XII is done adding on.
 
#60
#60
milohimself said:
The both of them would bring in what, an extra 3.5 million sets? Raleigh and Charlote are both larger than every SEC market but Atlanta, and far, FAR larger than every other SEC market except Nashville. If SEC network revenue works similarly at all to the Big Ten network, that would mean serious cashola regardless of how good at football UNC or Dook are.
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I think his regular thing/point/fuss was more about taking both UNC AND Duke being less beneficial than the other's thought?

Conference expansion never stopped, the board just stopped talking about it for a little while. No way Big XII is done adding on.
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They might be for a while; Dodds and Texas are the real deciders in that conference & (unlike OU) they're fairly content at the moment...it'd probably be up to the rest of the big 12 schools to try to sway them for anything too sudden/soon
 
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#61
#61
His point was that no team gets added unless they add more to the pie than they take out, which is totally legitimate. I'm just saying despite UNC and Duke's respective mediocrity and horridness at football, they both having something to offer. Just depends on what the ties to NC State and Wake are, and what it would take to weaken their historic stranglehold on the ACC.
 
#62
#62
milohimself said:
His point was that no team gets added unless they add more to the pie than they take out, which is totally legitimate. I'm just saying despite UNC and Duke's respective mediocrity and horridness at football, they both having something to offer. Just depends on what the ties to NC State and Wake are, and what it would take to weaken their historic stranglehold on the ACC.
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Right, but at the same time I believe he was debating with crusso who (i believe) was arguing that bringing in both UNC and duke would be a great move, mainly because both are top (could argue the top) basketball powers.

(see what you mean though)

(I might have misunderstood but I thought some of his overall argument was against "doubling down" in the same area)
 
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#63
#63
hell to the no.

first of all, and i'm going to be blunt about this, if i take my gator hat off, i can make an argument for fsu. i can make a better argument for other schools, but i can see where fsu is worth discussing.

however, when it comes to miami, they bring absolutely nothing in any way that would do anything for the conference. i would challenge anyone to argue otherwise.

people don't understand the idea of expansion to begin with. it's not about athletics. it's not about academics. it's about money.

fsu and miami don't give the sec more money

if you were going to add 2 schools in a best case dream scenario (not including texas), you would add north carolina and virginia
 
#65
#65
bamawriter said:
Expansion isn't about the quality of the competition, it's about market share. Yes, a higher profile in basketball would generate more TV revenue, but not enough to increase the per team revenue. That's what it would take to justify bringing in two teams from the same market.
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this is partly true.

if it were all about markets the sec would be screwed. there are only a couple of schools from states with legit markets (before the addition of a&m and missouri).

when bama plays auburn, the market would be considered to be the state of alabama. well, we know that's crap. we know when bama plays auburn, people across the country are watching.

the sec is loaded with schools that have no market whatsoever, but get big ratings.
 
#66
#66
TrueOrange said:
Right, but at the same time I believe he was debating with crusso who (i believe) was arguing that bringing in both UNC and duke would be a great move, mainly because both are top (could argue the top) basketball powers.

(see what you mean though)

(I might have misunderstood but I thought some of his overall argument was against "doubling down" in the same area)
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Not so much CBB powers, more that they are good at making skrill
 
#67
#67
BeecherVol said:
Financially speaking, maybe.

Not sure about the rest. If they wanted in 15 years ago I doubt the SEC would have turned them away.
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FSU also - should throw in a supposedly, since this was from old newspaper articles - kept trying to get into the conference a bunch back in the 50s/60s (maybe into the 70s, not sure though)
 
#68
#68
99gator said:
this is partly true.

if it were all about markets the sec would be screwed. there are only a couple of schools from states with legit markets (before the addition of a&m and missouri).

when bama plays auburn, the market would be considered to be the state of alabama. well, we know that's crap. we know when bama plays auburn, people across the country are watching.

the sec is loaded with schools that have no market whatsoever, but get big ratings.
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The market for hoops might not be as strong, but ratings for Duke-UNC are crazy high, and both programs bring in revenue that's right around average for SEC schools. But when you consider distributed revenue of the ACC vs the SEC, then it becomes impressive.

Downside is it could cost $40-50 million to get the two out of the ACC, not to mention potential legal trouble. The ACC would be gutted.
 
#69
#69
Miami has no shot. South Florida has way better shot and they are not mentioned either.
 
#71
#71
Free Shoes had their chance (twice) and turned it down. **** 'em.

Edit: The coCanes still owe us the war canoe for 08, so **** them too.
 
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#72
#72
As a basketball fan I'd love to see Duke and/or UNC added to the SEC but it doesn't make sense. They're buyout is going to be astronomical and you don’t gain that much in terms of new TVs…

I think WVU makes the most sense, good football and basketball – you start to creep into the Pittsburgh market and you keep some semblance of the geographical meaning of the SEC intact. If I were forced to pick a second team to go to 16 (if you grant WVU) wouldn’t it have to be Va Tech? They also have a strong football tradition, pretty good basketball, the SEC could then shift Mizzou to the west with A&M and keep WVU/VT in the East…

It won’t happen but it should (if we have to go to 16)
 
#74
#74
If it doesnt make sense for Football, it wont happen. They can say what they want, but everyone knows that Football steers this ship. Always has, always will.
 
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