Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#526
#526
utmba93 said:
Would you accept a recount of history if someone said it started after Christ and thus the Crusifiction didn't happen? Be sensible.
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well, when you spell it like that, it seems to imply that it didn't happen.
 
#529
#529
utmba93 said:
I posted this a few times within threads but it keeps coming up.

I can't imagine how many times I've read that it's been 10 years since Fulmer won an SEC Championship. That's referring to the 1998 season. But, since the Vols have only played 9 seasons, it would be fair if you critics would stick to the facts.

There's no need to give up on the 2008 Vols before the season ever starts. And, if for some reason, we don't win the SEC this season, are you going to say it's been 11 years next year... and just keep being wrong until we win it again?

Please kindly adhere to the facts. Just to help with the math, here's how to count them.

1) 2007 (that's the last season played)
2) 2006
3) 2005
4) 2004
5) 2003
6) 2002
7) 2001
8) 2000
9) 1999 (this was the 1st season after the Vols won the national championship)

Fire away... 3 embarassing loses in 2007; can't forget 2005; and so on.

The 2008 team is about to reset the clock, so remember to tell your grandkids, there were only 9 years between championships and not 10... and it was not 41 years.. that was basketball.

Get ready to update this photo in 2008! Go Vols!
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From the only Vol fan who thinks the 5-6 season was a positive one!

chokinggame.jpg
 
#531
#531
utmba93 said:
We've talked about this. I'm comparing outcomes (results), not expectations. You guys can expect as little as you want from UT bball.
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but any rational opinion of how a coach is performing has to have some context besides simply outcomes. Surely you can see that the expectation levels of fans drives their (dis)satisfaction levels wrt the coaching.

In getting back to your insistence about using our basketball results to buttress Fulmer, I actually have high expectations for the basketball team and have voiced my displeasure with the results. I am not in the least a homer for CBP. He has gotten no free pass from me for failing to live up to my expectations of this basketball team. I think he has done great things for the program as a whole, but am not afraid to call a spade a spade when he's being outcoached.
 
#533
#533
justingroves said:
That's been my point in every single CPF thread ever started.
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thus proving why your opinion is held with regard around here.
orange+white=heaven said:
If we'd won one 5 years ago, and still been disassembled like we were at Florida... I think I'd still be looking for a change....
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every season, there seems to be reasons to point for or against......in the same breath that we rattle off 59-20, someone else is showing you an SEC East title.

it's in the eye of the beholder. and i'm like you....59-20 and 41-17 are just extremely difficult to disassociate from SEC E champs....last year was like a really cool magic trick.
 
#535
#535
orange+white=heaven said:
If we'd won one 5 years ago, and still been disassembled like we were at Florida... I think I'd still be looking for a change....
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I can't help but feel if we had won one 5 years ago that we wouldn't be sitting here worrying about reloading certain key positions.
 
#536
#536
TreeGreen said:
I can't help but feel if we had won one 5 years ago that we wouldn't be sitting here worrying about reloading certain key positions.
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That is a logical argument to make.

While I really don't want to get mired too deeply in this subject matter, I have to say that I don't think having won the SEC in this mythical five years ago, would change Phillip's stripes with regard to getting the most out of what he has.

So, I don't think the recruiting boost that would have resulted from that title would have altered the success level that followed in any great measure.

But this is all conjecture about something that never did happen.
 
#537
#537
jakez4ut said:
thus proving why your opinion is held with regard around here.
every season, there seems to be reasons to point for or against......in the same breath that we rattle off 59-20, someone else is showing you an SEC East title.

it's in the eye of the beholder. and i'm like you....59-20 and 41-17 are just extremely difficult to disassociate from SEC E champs....last year was like a really cool magic trick.
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As you know, 59-20 was the tipping point for me.

While considering the idea you hatched, that if we had won a title in these last few years maybe we would be less inclined for change... I had to admit to myself that I would've probably reached the same conclusion after Florida as I did...
 
#538
#538
orange+white=heaven said:
That is a logical argument to make.

While I really don't want to get mired too deeply in this subject matter, I have to say that I don't think having won the SEC in this mythical five years ago, would change Phillip's stripes with regard to getting the most out of what he has.

So, I don't think the recruiting boost that would have resulted from that title would have altered the success level that followed in any great measure.

But this is all conjecture about something that never did happen.
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we would likely be unhappy with a season like last and the drubbings we took. However, we would not have the ammunition that 9 seasons without a title provides. The fact that those 9 seasons fly in the face of Mike Hamilton's comments wrt winning titles scares me badly about who's at the helm.

The mythical title would have cut the knees from under the main argument for CPF's ousterand would have kept him in line with MHs stated goals for the program. I fully believe that said title would have quelled much of the outcry that we hear today.
 
#539
#539
orange+white=heaven said:
As you know, 59-20 was the tipping point for me.
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It wasn't so much the score of that game as it was the fact that we absolutely quit in the 3rd quarter, after having similarly quit a couple weeks prior in Berkeley. The foul stench of quitting was rough enough, but was absolutely overwhelmed by the disaster in Tuscaloosa, which also involved a capitulation late.
 
#540
#540
BigPapaVol said:
we would likely be unhappy with a season like last and the drubbings we took. However, we would not have the ammunition that 9 seasons without a title provides. The fact that those 9 seasons fly in the face of Mike Hamilton's comments wrt winning titles scares me badly about who's at the helm.

The mythical title would have cut the knees from under the main argument for CPF's ousterand would have kept him in line with MHs stated goals for the program. I fully believe that said title would have quelled much of the outcry that we hear today.
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Nice points BPV.

I guess my confidence level has just reached low tide where Phillip is concerned.
 
#542
#542
utmba93 said:
We'd probably be even more dissatisified with last year's slackings. Expectations only increase with success.
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Conversely, I guess that's why I don't expect us to win the SEC this coming season. My expectations are continuing to level off with the lack of success. I suppose that's what is happening to a lot of people, and why a great number of fans are happy with the results on the field last year.
 
#544
#544
BigPapaVol said:
It wasn't so much the score of that game as it was the fact that we absolutely quit in the 3rd quarter, after having similarly quit a couple weeks prior in Berkeley. The foul stench of quitting was rough enough, but was absolutely overwhelmed by the disaster in Tuscaloosa, which also involved a capitulation late.
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I can't argue with this one--and it all happened right after Berry got us excited with that 95 yd pick 6.

That was my 'low tide.'

Good post, BPV!:thumbsup:
 
#545
#545
Chemvol said:
3 titles...1985, 1989, 1990
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The 1985 season ranks second only to the 1998 season in my memories. Great squad who played beyond their talent. The victory over the Canes in the Sugar will be a lifelong memory.
 
#546
#546
utmba93 said:
The 1985 season ranks second only to the 1998 season in my memories. Great squad who played beyond their talent. The victory over the Canes in the Sugar will be a lifelong memory.
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Spot on, and the halftime show was great too.
 
#548
#548
UT IE 95 said:
Do you want to count Phil's if he were playing under the same conference rules Johnny was?
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Johnny won under the rules that were in play at that time. I expect Phil to win the SEC under the current set of rules, period. I expect every coach to play the hand that is dealt to them.
 
#549
#549
justingroves said:
False.
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true. what Johnny did with what he inherited should never be diminished. He set the table, but was unable to get us over the hump and Phil did that. Phil, however, has been unable to keep the momentum going.
 
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