Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#9,701
#9,701
GmanTN said:
Its called a terrible loss, no if, ands or buts about it, but in the end it is still a loss and you have to move on. Don't try to bring a loss against the current coach and be all huffy if you can't apply the same frustration against Phil for his landmark losses.
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If you would have read a few posts back, Glen said that there was no way you could blame the KY loss on CDD because he didnt play. The whole back and forth posts had to deal with responsibility. I responded to your post the same way with 100% of the responsibility for the Wyoming, Vandy, and Memphis losses being on CPF's shoulders.

We didnt HAVE to finish last in the SECE because of our schedule. We could have still made a bowl and potentially had a winning season, if the STAFF would have had the team ready in Lexington. (to satisfy you, we still would own the 2 longest ACTIVE winning streaks in the NCAA if CPF would have had us prepared for Vandy in '05 and CDD would have had us ready at KY last year. One was just as bad as the other.)
 
#9,702
#9,702
Big Orange 1 said:
Is TB the only quarterback we had? Whose responsibility is it to make a change in the game? And the question about my boss. If he knew that me not doing my job that day and a million people would be on his ass afterwords, yeah, I'd get a pep talk. It kills me how some can brush off this KY loss like it was nothing. We win that game we are

Not last in the SECE
Going to a bowl
Still own the longest winning streak in the NCAA
This thread is no more, especially if we would have won the bowl.

BUT, if you cannot put the blame on the staff for this one, then you cant put the Wyoming, Vandy, or Memphis loss on CPF's staff. Blame Peyton for Memphis and whoever else you want for the other two.Good grief:ermm:
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NEVER have I blown the KY game off. Your perception of not blowing the game off is if I were to say, CDD SUCKS, FIRE HIM NOW, POOR TB and Da NO ONE WIPED THEIR HINNIES AND WARMED THEIR BEDTIME BOTTLES TO GET THEM READY TO PLAY. THIS IS THE WORSE LOSS IN UT HISTORY AND CDD SHOULD PAY BACK HIS ENTIRE SALARY. WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER LET CPF GO HE WOULD HAVE BEEN UNDEFEATED SINCE 08 IF HE HAD BEEN GIVEN A CHANCE. That is what you sound like, at least to me. That game stung, but I have gotten past it and am looking forward to beating them by 70 this year. That is my vindictiveness, not whining about our coaching staff on a message board.

I never blamed CPF for those losses and yes, we sucked in those games and I blame the team for not playing to potential in those games. However, I can guarantee you, the CPF losses were helped by a heavy dose of over confidence whereas, if the team last year was over confident (which if that was over confident, we are in deep doodoo this year), CDD should have a boot up his butt. I doubt however, that was the case for last years team.

vol_in_il said:
3 good points
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And they are all on his head......
 
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#9,703
#9,703
Big Orange 1 said:
If you would have read a few posts back, Glen said that there was no way you could blame the KY loss on CDD because he didnt play. The whole back and forth posts had to deal with responsibility. I responded to your post the same way with 100% of the responsibility for the Wyoming, Vandy, and Memphis losses being on CPF's shoulders.

We didnt HAVE to finish last in the SECE because of our schedule. We could have still made a bowl and potentially had a winning season, if the STAFF would have had the team ready in Lexington. (to satisfy you, we still would own the 2 longest ACTIVE winning streaks in the NCAA if CPF would have had us prepared for Vandy in '05 and CDD would have had us ready at KY last year. One was just as bad as the other.)
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Here is where you and I have a disconnect on this subject about last years KY loss. LWS has said in other posts that had we won against KY we would have 20 players who would not been eligible to play in a bowl. On top of that had we won the mass exodus of coaches would still have taken place and how would that impact a team going to a bowl with hardly any coaches left? There was so much instability surrounding the program towards the end of the season from coaches and players that IMO the players and staff was ready for it all to be over with since we had played such a difficult SEC schedule hampered by injuries at key positions.

The only instability in 05 was Randy Sanders, no key injuries, Phil had been at the helm as the leader of the program for a dozen years. We did not play the #1, 2 and 3rd ranked team that season much less within a 4 week period saturated by injuries. You keep bringing up how the coaches should have benched players in the KY game. Just who do you think we had to come off the bench and been more effective? Don't forget that same KY team took GA to the wire the week before and should have beat the East Champion. We did not get beat because our defense was weak, we got beat because Chaney (IMO sucks) tried to much trickery instead of sticking to what was working moving the ball in scoring opportunites. I do think that DD should have stepped in on certain play calls and said no lets go with whats been working, but that is neither here or there now, I've moved on. Its not the first loss I have witnessed against KY but when you look at the 2 football teams of Vandy and KY. KY has been a much better program than Vandy. From 1993 thru 2008 the overall record for Vandy was 60-126 (23-113 SEC record) and for KY 80-118 (39-97 SEC Record).

Yes losing to KY sucked and I was not happy about it but I have moved on just like I have moved on from the 05 Vandy loss, 97 Memphis and 08 Wyoming. To rank these for losses for me I would say:

1. 97 Memphis (Peyton Manning no excuse)
2. 05 Vandy (the worst SEC team in the modern era)
3. 08 Wyoming (no feasible excuse, that team sucked)
4. 2011 KY (the end to a controversial season that was filled with failure and frustration)
 
#9,704
#9,704
who cares if we would have had 1or20 players ineligible for the bowl game, they should have played to win that game, and they didn't..
Coaches, Players the whole lot of them


It's still absolutely unbelievable that we could lose that game to a WR playing QB, that only had 3 completions (maybe wrong), but it's a pretty low number anyway
 
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#9,706
#9,706
Big Orange 1 said:
If you would have read a few posts back, Glen said that there was no way you could blame the KY loss on CDD because he didnt play. The whole back and forth posts had to deal with responsibility. I responded to your post the same way with 100% of the responsibility for the Wyoming, Vandy, and Memphis losses being on CPF's shoulders.

We didnt HAVE to finish last in the SECE because of our schedule. We could have still made a bowl and potentially had a winning season, if the STAFF would have had the team ready in Lexington. (to satisfy you, we still would own the 2 longest ACTIVE winning streaks in the NCAA if CPF would have had us prepared for Vandy in '05 and CDD would have had us ready at KY last year. One was just as bad as the other.)
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The problem with you and several others on here is that you have made your mind up that CDD is crap and will be gone at the end of the year. I on the other hand do not obsesss on finding things to blame on him and would prefer that he get a decent chance to at least build the roster before we show him the door. He holds a portion of the responsibility for the KY loss. The offense holds a VAST MAJORITY of the blame for that loss. Had TB and Da played with half of their vaunted (see Nega's TB worship thread) ability, we would have hung at least 21 on them. Per your posts, CDD holds all the responsibility because he didn't wipe TB and Da's backsides for them and beg them to play. Do you think for one second that Nick Saban would beg those two to play? HELL NO and CDD shouldn't have too either. The only thing that CDD did wrong was not benching TB in the 2nd quarter and meeting him at the hash marks in his face, throwing his headset, and telling him to sit his childish ass on the bench. I hope to god that TB has grown up because if he comes out playing with the mentality of a 2 year old at NCSt, he will get our collective head handed to us.
 
#9,708
#9,708
vol_in_il said:
who cares if we would have had 1or20 players ineligible for the bowl game, they should have played to win that game, and they didn't..
Coaches, Players the whole lot of them


It's still absolutely unbelievable that we could lose that game to a WR playing QB, that only had 3 completions (maybe wrong), but it's a pretty low number anyway
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I agree with this post 100%. Here's a question for discussion, of the Juniors (and there was a butt load of them after spring practice) in the 20, I wonder if TB and Da would have been eligible? I guess we won't know since individual grades are released, just the overall GPA and the total number "currently" in trouble. Could this have been an explanation of the poor play? Could they have been part of the crew catching hell for not being eligible?
 
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#9,709
#9,709
TNGlen said:
The problem with you and several others on here is that you have made your mind up that CDD is crap and will be gone at the end of the year. I on the other hand do not obsesss on finding things to blame on him and would prefer that he get a decent chance to at least build the roster before we show him the door. He holds a portion of the responsibility for the KY loss. The offense holds a VAST MAJORITY of the blame for that loss. Had TB and Da played with half of their vaunted (see Nega's TB worship thread) ability, we would have hung at least 21 on them. Per your posts, CDD holds all the responsibility because he didn't wipe TB and Da's backsides for them and beg them to play. Do you think for one second that Nick Saban would beg those two to play? HELL NO and CDD shouldn't have too either. The only thing that CDD did wrong was not benching TB in the 2nd quarter and meeting him at the hash marks in his face, throwing his headset, and telling him to sit his childish ass on the bench. I hope to god that TB has grown up because if he comes out playing with the mentality of a 2 year old at NCSt, he will get our collective head handed to us.
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Glen, Glen, Glen. Ok, slow down brother. I do not think CDD is crap. I hope he never loses another game (while he's at UT). We're speaking of one game my friend. The only point I'm trying to make is that lack of focus, desire, whatever you want to call it, falls on the coaching staff. I never said he should have wiped anyone's backside. Spurrier benched Danny Weurfel for God's sake. I do not blame losing to Alabama, USC,GA, LSU etc on this staff, they were just beaten by more talented, better teams. KY sucked, I dont care how well they played UGA the week before, or how they've been better than Vandy for the last few years. We beat Vandy, who beat KY 38-8.
 
#9,710
#9,710
It is ironic that CPF's success is the reason for this thread. He is the perfect example of being "a victim of his own success".
 
#9,713
#9,713
Having witnessed Randy Sanders as OC at UT its difficult to lose a game to a Ky team coached by Sanders with a 3rd string QB at the helm. It raises a lot of questions about the coaching staff.
 
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#9,715
#9,715
WA_Vol said:
Having witnessed Randy Sanders as OC at UT its difficult to lose a game to a Ky team coached by Sanders with a 3rd string QB at the helm. It raises a lot of questions about the coaching staff.
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That pretty much sums it up. Until we can beat Randy Sanders with less talent and without a QB, we suck.:hi:
 
#9,716
#9,716
WA_Vol said:
Having witnessed Randy Sanders as OC at UT its difficult to lose a game to a Ky team coached by Sanders with a 3rd string QB at the helm. It raises a lot of questions about the coaching staff.
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Randy Sanders called theplays for the NC came. He did a good job.

Was Randy nite a good OC or did Fulmer not hive him control of the offense?

I think it is the later.
 
#9,719
#9,719
volfanecs said:
It is ironic that CPF's success is the reason for this thread. He is the perfect example of being "a victim of his own success".
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He is probably one of the last of a dying breed. We are now firmly entrenched in the age of the mercenary. Win at all costs or by any means. Sad state of affairs.
 
#9,720
#9,720
PimpVol said:
He is probably one of the last of a dying breed. We are now firmly entrenched in the age of the mercenary. Win at all costs or by any means. Sad state of affairs.
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TRUE. Let Auburn beat Alabama 2-3 years in a row and the Bama faithful will be ready to run Little Nicky out of town.
 
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#9,721
#9,721
Big Orange 1 said:
TRUE. Let Auburn beat Alabama 2-3 years in a row and the Bama faithful will be ready to run Little Nicky out of town.
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Or they will just cut the trees down at Tomer's instead of poisoning them. Yeah, Bama is my #2 team, but damn THEY got some dumbass fans.
 
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