Fulmer Debate II

[114VOL]

Just face it. You got yourself twisted up more than Col. Jessup (aka Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" or is that reference too far back for someone as young as I am to be able to make?) and now you're trying to dig yourself out of quicksand.

You're delusional in your rebuttals and they eek of a confused little boy.

 

[whobethis16]

Are you forgetting the azz beating we took by Auburn? In Fulmer's defense, Auburn was the best team in the country that year

Yourrebuttals are silly and that of a know-nothing. Vanderbilt beat us at home too. Do you not get it?

Apparently not. Fulmer isn't our coach for good reason.

Losing by 4 is now "getting our asses beat"? Come on, dude. I took exactly what you said and proved you wrong. If Auburn is still a rival, then I guess Georgia Tech is too. Or what about Sewanee, are they still a rival?

 

[whobethis16]

You're delusional in your rebuttals and they eek of a confused little boy.

You apparently need to see a doctor for how bad your short term memory is. I even quoted it again, and you can't remember what you said.

 

[iluvsmesumdooley]

technically, no he didnt. But in reality it was he that built it then was promoted from within so unlike Majors, Kiffin, Dooley, and Jones, CPF didnt walk in off the streets cold.

From Majors onset in 1977 until 1988 (the year before CPF was made OC), the team was 82-53-6 or 58% winning record. During that time they averaged 6.8 wins per year.

In 1989 CPF was promoted from line coach to OC. From 89-92 (the infamous split year but he was still OC), they were 38-9-2 or 77.6%. They averaged 9.5 wins per year.

While he took over a better team, he was part of the building of that better team.

Majors inherited a train wreck from Battle, a pile of crap that had a 7-year drought on SEC titles - which was considered a pretty long drought for UT back then. Fulmer took over a team just 2 years removed from back-to-back SEC titles. Majors won 3 SEC titles, Fulmer won 2 and a NT.

 

[114VOL]

Just face it. You got yourself twisted up more than Col. Jessup (aka Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men" or is that reference too far back for someone as young as I am to be able to make?) and now you're trying to dig yourself out of quicksand.

I was sweating blood and tears for the University of Tennessee long before your daddy forgot to put on his rubber.

Great movie you referenced. Too bad it can never prove your point

 

[whobethis16]

Majors inherited a train wreck from Battle, a pile of crap that had a 7-year drought on SEC titles - which was considered a pretty long drought for UT back then. Fulmer took over a team just 2 years removed from back-to-back SEC titles. Majors won 3 SEC titles, Fulmer won 2 and a NT.

If you want to call Majors' Co-Championships and winning by default cause Florida was on probation, let's see how many times Fulmer would've won without a title game. 97, 98, 01, 07 That makes 4 that he had the best record or tied. Majors one 1 outright to Fulmer's 2 outright.

 

[114VOL]

You apparently need to see a doctor for how bad your short term memory is. I even quoted it again, and you can't remember what you said.

You got some big balls bringing grammar into the equation and then trotting this jewel of sentence out here. I take it you've never come close to publishing anything.

I'll take that back. You don't have big balls, you're just a stupid little boy who can't take the fact that the UNIVERSITY of TENNESSEE made an appropriate change in their HFC five years ago. Salt to the wound for you was the FACT that no one else wanted him for that particular job when he made it public he was back on the market.

 

[whobethis16]

You got some big balls bringing grammar into the equation and then trotting this jewel of sentence out here. I take it you've never come close to publishing anything.

I'll take that back. You don't have big balls, you're just a stupid little boy who can't take the fact that the UNIVERSITY of TENNESSEE made an appropriate change in their HFC five years ago. Salt to the wound for you was the FACT that no one else wanted him for that particular job when he made it public he was back on the market.

Argue with the guy that actually made the comment about your grammar, numb nuts. At least mine still work and get some action.

 

[whobethis16]

2004 might have been Fulmer's best coaching job in any one season. Still, in not ONE SINGLE season from 2002-2008 were the Vols ever a national contender.

I will dare to raise anything I wish to in this debate. See, you fail to recognize the FACT that during the 2002-2008 stretch, we began a massive slide defending ourselves at home in Neyland Stadium. A 41-14 shellacking from Georgia, in which the team gave completely up in the second half(a bad habit we fell into during these years), slides right past you in your extremely narrow world of University of Tennesse football. From 2002-2008, we routinely got our azzes beat at least once a year AT HOME by our biggest rivals.

I see you forget to mention the azz beating we took from an unranked Clemson team after the 2003 season.

But here, I even bolded it to help with your short term memory. Anything over 14 points at home to Bama, Florida, or UGA (our biggest rivals) counts as getting our azzes beat.

 

[whobethis16]

You got some big balls bringing grammar into the equation and then trotting this jewel of sentence out here. I take it you've never come close to publishing anything.

I'll take that back. You don't have big balls, you're just a stupid little boy who can't take the fact that the UNIVERSITY of TENNESSEE made an appropriate change in their HFC five years ago. Salt to the wound for you was the FACT that no one else wanted him for that particular job when he made it public he was back on the market.

And actually, yes, I wrote for TNJN while in undergrad. So, yes, I've been published. And I've actually been a top hit on Google.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Why bring Mrs Majors into this?

I would say something back...except That really is pretty fing funny.....

 

[Slydell]

Lotta hate up in here.hmy:

 

[05_never_again]

When you're discussing Fulmer's legacy, you have to make a nuanced argument, IMO.

Did Fulmer need to be let go? Yes. Would the program as a whole (not just wins and losses) be in better shape if he were still around? Probably. That doesn't mean it was a mistake to fire him though.

The person making the "ass beatings at home every year" argument might not have the particulars correct, but I do think that those types of games had more to do with the firing than the actual losing seasons. It was the large number of non-competitive games, even against higher ranked teams, that built up against Fulmer.

There was a tremendous amount of discontent in 2002 after the 8-5 year (it's incredible to even type that - most Tennessee fans would kill for an 8-5 year now). There were 4 big games that year where Tennessee just wasn't competitive: Florida, Alabama, and Miami at home, and Maryland in the Peach Bowl.

2003 - Georgia at home, not competitive. Another ugly loss to an ACC team (Clemson) in a bowl game

2004 - non-competitive loss at home to a higher ranked Auburn, otherwise a good season

2005 - where to begin...ugly losses at home to Georgia, at Alabama (infamous 6-3 game), upset by South Carolina and Vanderbilt, both at home. Non-competitive loss to a higher ranked Notre Dame on the road

2006 - ugly loss at Arkansas (a higher ranked team) and to Penn State in a bowl game

2007 - bad loss at Cal in a nationally televised season opener. Blowout loss at Florida. Blowout loss on the road to a very mediocre Alabama team. Even "backing in" to the SEC Championship Game doesn't placate the fanbase - the non-competitive games are building up at this point.

2008 - total disaster...lose as a favorite on the road to another Pac 10 school in a season opener (UCLA). Blowout loss at home to Florida. Ugly loss at Auburn (admittedly to a higher ranked team). Non-competitive losses at Georgia, Alabama, and at South Carolina. I won't even count the Wyoming loss since it occurred after his dismissal.

 

[govols/cc]

When you're discussing Fulmer's legacy, you have to make a nuanced argument, IMO.

Did Fulmer need to be let go? Yes. Would the program as a whole (not just wins and losses) be in better shape if he were still around? Probably. That doesn't mean it was a mistake to fire him though.

LOL I think you just said it was.

 

[05_never_again]

LOL I think you just said it was.

No I didn't. Firing Fulmer and the events that followed are independent from each other.

Would you not agree that firing a coach can be the right decision, but if a bunch of bad things happen in the decisions that follow, you would have been better off keeping the old guy?

 

[MedicT]

When you're discussing Fulmer's legacy, you have to make a nuanced argument, IMO.
.

Not really.

1. National Championship (Undefeated Season)
2. SEC Championship
3. College Football Hall of Fame

I don't see a whole lot of subtlety that would lend any uncertainty. Two losing seasons out of what, 16? Not much there either.

The record since his departure is also fairly clear. IMHO

The facts are clear. Conjecture comes into play when you try to justify his firing.:salute:

 

[05_never_again]

Not really.

1. National Championship (Undefeated Season)
2. SEC Championship
3. College Football Hall of Fame

I don't see a whole lot of subtlety that would lend any uncertainty. Two losing seasons out of what, 16? Not much there either.

The record since his departure is also fairly clear. IMHO

The facts are clear. Conjecture comes into play when you try to justify his firing.:salute:

What exactly are you saying? He shouldn't have been fired because of #1 and #2? #3 happened after he was gone. When he was let go, #1 and #2 had last happened a decade prior. If his career ended in 1998 or 2001 - I'd agree...there is no subtlety to his legacy. But we all know that didn't happen.

I said so myself that he wasn't fired because of 2 losing seasons out of 16. That's what a lot of non-Tennessee fans who were bemused by his firing didn't get; there was an assumption that he was fired because of 2005 and 2008. He wasn't.

 

[MedicT]

I'm saying he was fired because a spoiled unrealistic fan base and University could not deal with the inevitable down cycle in the program. In that way, he was a victim of his own success.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Name the QBs and where they stand on depth charts in the NFL. Do you even remember how bad our QB play was in 2008 and the first part of 2009? Regardless of your childlike ignorance, you were able to name a small handful of players. Some of whom were severe underperformers while at UT. Would you like to compare the rosters, position by position including starters and depth, of the 1992 team vs. the 2008 team?

Take a look at where we stood among active players on NFL rosters in 2002. Look at our rank now. Case closed.

Fulmer is never coming back to coach US. I can actually say US in reality, unlike you. His firing was righteous whether you want to acknowledge it or not, regardless of subsequent hires.

I won't get into the FACTS of him not being able to land another HC job anywhere of significance. No one wanted him for a reason. Good guy, but ran his course as a coach of a ready built program.

Just stop. Please. Nothing you can say today will even remotely prove that we are better off with Fulmer gone.

 

[MedicT]

At any rate, what is done is done. Coach Jones will turn it around and his clock will start clicking downward also. Hell, half of VN is already trying to push the alarm button.

 

[05_never_again]

I'm saying he was fired because a spoiled unrealistic fan base and University could not deal with the inevitable down cycle in the program. In that way, he was a victim of his own success.

Not disagreeing with that at all. But when you are consistently not competitive against conference rivals and start dropping games formerly seen as automatic wins (rightly or wrongly) by the fanbase, a firing has to be expected.

Not to mention the fact that he was consistently outcoached and outrecruited by the likes of Spurrier, Richt, Meyer, Saban, and Miles. People were resigned to the fact that Fulmer couldn't compete with those guys and were desperate for some new blood, even if the new blood was an unknown commodity.

Just because Fulmer was succeeded by Kiffin then Dooley doesn't mean it was a mistake to let Fulmer go in the first instance. The decisions are independent of each other.

 

[govols/cc]

No I didn't. Firing Fulmer and the events that followed are independent from each other.

Would you not agree that firing a coach can be the right decision, but if a bunch of bad things happen in the decisions that follow, you would have been better off keeping the old guy?

No they're not. Where we are now is a direct result of firing Fulmer.

 

[whobethis16]

Not disagreeing with that at all. But when you are consistently not competitive against conference rivals and start dropping games formerly seen as automatic wins (rightly or wrongly) by the fanbase, a firing has to be expected.

Not to mention the fact that he was consistently outcoached and outrecruited by the likes of Spurrier, Richt, Meyer, Saban, and Miles. People were resigned to the fact that Fulmer couldn't compete with those guys and were desperate for some new blood, even if the new blood was an unknown commodity.

Just because Fulmer was succeeded by Kiffin then Dooley doesn't mean it was a mistake to let Fulmer go in the first instance. The decisions are independent of each other.

And then we go back to Fulmer's competing/playing for the SEC championship every 3 years while every other team (yes, Bama, Florida, and Georgia) all went 6+ years without even playing for it. So, for 10 years, nobody went more consistently than Fulmer and his Vols. Even Richt went 6 years without going to Atlanta. I don't get how anyone can say that Fulmer stopped being competitive in the SEC.

 

[whobethis16]

SEC Championship appearances from
1997-08.

Alabama: 2
Arkansas: 2
Auburn: 3
Florida: 4
Georgia: 3
Kentucky: 0
LSU: 4
Ole Miss: 0
Mississippi State: 1
South Carolina: 0
Tennessee: 5
Vanderbilt: 0

That looks like being competitive in the SEC to me. I don't see how you can say it isn't competitive.

 

[Boston Vol]

SEC Championship appearances from
1997-08.

Alabama: 2
Arkansas: 2
Auburn: 3
Florida: 4
Georgia: 3
Kentucky: 0
LSU: 4
Ole Miss: 0
Mississippi State: 1
South Carolina: 0
Tennessee: 5
Vanderbilt: 0

That looks like being competitive in the SEC to me. I don't see how you can say it isn't competitive.

How about winning the SEC. When was he planning on doing that?